***CUB BROTHERHOOD***
03-28-2016, 12:01 PM
#3902
I have a six panel steel door 36'' wide mounted on a rolling cart with a glass top.I build everything on the glass, yes, even wings and geodetic fuselages! NO PINS! No weights either, or magnets!
I'll wait to see if you can guess how I do it before I explain it. It's really simple and builds very true.
bird.
I'll wait to see if you can guess how I do it before I explain it. It's really simple and builds very true.
bird.
Well, enough suspense. I saw a vidio tape by topflite about 25 years ago where a guy did this.
He built the strait wing of the Hot Canary, if some of you old timers remember. It was a 'D' tube construction. L. E. -T. E. sheeting and cap strips and tip blocks. With super glue and accelerator it took him 12 minutes to assemble once he got it set up! Ready to sand!
Set up: Cut out your wing or fuse or any other built up part, tear off a piece of wax paper to fit, spray one side with 3M-77 or equivelent, (not permenant bond) put on glass, spray back side of plan piece and place on top of wax paper. Tear off another piece of wax paper like the first and spray back side and put on plan. Now you have a sandwich- two wax and one plan. It is firmly and temporarly attached to the glass surface.
At this point, have all your pieces layed out and sanded. Spray along the spar or top and botton fuse longerons. Make a close heavy pass, about 4-6 inches, and let it fume off till tacky, about one or two minutes will do. Any stick piece; set one end and while suspended in your hand, start laying the stick/spar in the line adjusting as you go along. Once it is in place you can start setting the ribs in place.
A flat bottom is the easiest. A spray along the T.E. (light) will hold the rib in place. Semi or full symetrical are easy too. Just take a quarter inch stick and support the tails moving the tip end of the stick in or out to set a naturally occurring washout. The spray glue will hold that in place also. Finish the top side of the wing sheeting and caps to hold the twist or strait in it. Flip it and lay it on two sticks as a cradle so it doesn't wobble, and sheet the other side.
Fuselage/geodedic; same process on the set up. Spray outer areas to hold down. Cut your pieces and glue them in as you go, like you would at any rate, like I said, there are no pins, the glue holds everything in place. Now, the second side! Same as the first.....well sorta.......tear off another piece of wax paper and spray the back side and lay over the first piece you built, now spray like you did to secure the first pieces of wood to the plans. Let it fume off and start building on top of the first side and you will have an identical second side. Use a square along the outer edges of the original side piece to align the new pieces.
There you have it. I have a feeling that if you try this you will throw rocks at the old way. Just dont hit the glass in the process. BTW, I have only broken one piece of glass and that was when I was moving my stuff to my new shop. I was, and still am using one of the two pieces I had. The glass is from an insulated sliding glass door ,safety glass, and there was a spot of glue about the size of a nickle and when I tried to spin instead of lift............BOOM!........ like a shot! Only the top sheet not the bottom, don't know why!
I have a quarter inch sheet I have had since 1993. So, don't get squrmish about glass. Makes a nice cutting surface for covering too. Use a ceramic tile for your covering iron to disapate the heat.
OKAY. any further inquiries....................you know how to get ahold of me.
Thanks for your intrest guys. BTW, Just built the two wing panel of the top flite,old one, P-51-A in about three hours using this method.
bird
BTW OK, If you use alcohol to dilute the epoxy and wipe it off the glass you won't have to 'pop' it off. Just sayin'.
Clean up, use a strait edge safety blade and scrape as much as possible off. I use MEK, NASTY STUFF!!!! but it sure does the job! Wipe it down with it and start again. Just remember that heavy handed cutting will evetually scar the glass but not beyond use. There are a lot of sourses for sliding glass doors you can find them on the side/ of the road, the dump motor home and travel trailers have them. Check the sales lot where they repair them.
Okay, I think I'm done.........................
He built the strait wing of the Hot Canary, if some of you old timers remember. It was a 'D' tube construction. L. E. -T. E. sheeting and cap strips and tip blocks. With super glue and accelerator it took him 12 minutes to assemble once he got it set up! Ready to sand!
Set up: Cut out your wing or fuse or any other built up part, tear off a piece of wax paper to fit, spray one side with 3M-77 or equivelent, (not permenant bond) put on glass, spray back side of plan piece and place on top of wax paper. Tear off another piece of wax paper like the first and spray back side and put on plan. Now you have a sandwich- two wax and one plan. It is firmly and temporarly attached to the glass surface.
At this point, have all your pieces layed out and sanded. Spray along the spar or top and botton fuse longerons. Make a close heavy pass, about 4-6 inches, and let it fume off till tacky, about one or two minutes will do. Any stick piece; set one end and while suspended in your hand, start laying the stick/spar in the line adjusting as you go along. Once it is in place you can start setting the ribs in place.
A flat bottom is the easiest. A spray along the T.E. (light) will hold the rib in place. Semi or full symetrical are easy too. Just take a quarter inch stick and support the tails moving the tip end of the stick in or out to set a naturally occurring washout. The spray glue will hold that in place also. Finish the top side of the wing sheeting and caps to hold the twist or strait in it. Flip it and lay it on two sticks as a cradle so it doesn't wobble, and sheet the other side.
Fuselage/geodedic; same process on the set up. Spray outer areas to hold down. Cut your pieces and glue them in as you go, like you would at any rate, like I said, there are no pins, the glue holds everything in place. Now, the second side! Same as the first.....well sorta.......tear off another piece of wax paper and spray the back side and lay over the first piece you built, now spray like you did to secure the first pieces of wood to the plans. Let it fume off and start building on top of the first side and you will have an identical second side. Use a square along the outer edges of the original side piece to align the new pieces.
There you have it. I have a feeling that if you try this you will throw rocks at the old way. Just dont hit the glass in the process. BTW, I have only broken one piece of glass and that was when I was moving my stuff to my new shop. I was, and still am using one of the two pieces I had. The glass is from an insulated sliding glass door ,safety glass, and there was a spot of glue about the size of a nickle and when I tried to spin instead of lift............BOOM!........ like a shot! Only the top sheet not the bottom, don't know why!
I have a quarter inch sheet I have had since 1993. So, don't get squrmish about glass. Makes a nice cutting surface for covering too. Use a ceramic tile for your covering iron to disapate the heat.
OKAY. any further inquiries....................you know how to get ahold of me.
Thanks for your intrest guys. BTW, Just built the two wing panel of the top flite,old one, P-51-A in about three hours using this method.
bird
BTW OK, If you use alcohol to dilute the epoxy and wipe it off the glass you won't have to 'pop' it off. Just sayin'.
Clean up, use a strait edge safety blade and scrape as much as possible off. I use MEK, NASTY STUFF!!!! but it sure does the job! Wipe it down with it and start again. Just remember that heavy handed cutting will evetually scar the glass but not beyond use. There are a lot of sourses for sliding glass doors you can find them on the side/ of the road, the dump motor home and travel trailers have them. Check the sales lot where they repair them.
Okay, I think I'm done.........................
I was going to say, by using jigs, but you replied before I had a chance to comment... I built my 1/4 sig cub all with CA... used 30 min epoxy on the music wire, spar reinforcements, landing gear blocks, and strut mounts, but I pinned everything in place and then ran over the joins with JET medium viscosity CA; no accelerator.
John M,
03-28-2016, 12:38 PM
#3903
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Another thot, when removing the plans after a build, dous the used plans with baby powder to nutralize the spray glue.
John M. I use medium CA exclusively on all areas except dihedral braces and firewalls above 60 size otherwise med CA on the firewall. 30 min epoxy on the H-stab, no exceptions unless it's a little guy. I also don't know how to build without accellerator! Do you remember 24 hour epoxy in the early 60's? Pins and ambroid?!!!! How did we wvwe survive?!!!! Elmers glue all was fuel proof but not water proof.
bird.
John M. I use medium CA exclusively on all areas except dihedral braces and firewalls above 60 size otherwise med CA on the firewall. 30 min epoxy on the H-stab, no exceptions unless it's a little guy. I also don't know how to build without accellerator! Do you remember 24 hour epoxy in the early 60's? Pins and ambroid?!!!! How did we wvwe survive?!!!! Elmers glue all was fuel proof but not water proof.
bird.
03-28-2016, 02:26 PM
#3904
Bigbird, I still build with pins lol, and white glue was as strong as the wood if not stronger, that's all that really matters 
... don't forget the testors balsa cement, when I was a kid my ol man built a super sniffer with that stuff... all I could remember was the smell, that and the smell of dope 
Oh yeah the firewall, I definitely used epoxy there for sure.. that was one area that I had to rethink during the refurbish... I had glued some triangle stock along the inside corners where the firewall met the fuse sides as a reinforcement... but that was removed because you could see it from the cockpit area... I ended up using some aluminum "L" stock, 4, 5/8" long pieces that I cut slots for in the end of the fuse sides at the nose and then mortised the aluminum flush with the firewall... then I pinned the "L" stock in the side lots with some hard wood dowels and on the firewall I used 4, 4-40 blind nuts and screws; never pull the firewall off that's for sure
BTW... you can still get ambroid, I think the testors was basically the same formula; that stuff was wicked without proper ventilation... I think with the modern adhesives that are available today, ambroid would be my last option to use.
John M,
... don't forget the testors balsa cement, when I was a kid my ol man built a super sniffer with that stuff... all I could remember was the smell, that and the smell of dope Oh yeah the firewall, I definitely used epoxy there for sure.. that was one area that I had to rethink during the refurbish... I had glued some triangle stock along the inside corners where the firewall met the fuse sides as a reinforcement... but that was removed because you could see it from the cockpit area... I ended up using some aluminum "L" stock, 4, 5/8" long pieces that I cut slots for in the end of the fuse sides at the nose and then mortised the aluminum flush with the firewall... then I pinned the "L" stock in the side lots with some hard wood dowels and on the firewall I used 4, 4-40 blind nuts and screws; never pull the firewall off that's for sure
BTW... you can still get ambroid, I think the testors was basically the same formula; that stuff was wicked without proper ventilation... I think with the modern adhesives that are available today, ambroid would be my last option to use.
John M,
Last edited by John_M_; 03-28-2016 at 02:52 PM.
03-28-2016, 07:33 PM
#3905
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Yes John I know you can buy ambroid, I have a tube for the sole purpose of taking trips back in time! LOL! I still sacrifice a few brain cells for a trip! I have a bottle of clear dope for the same purpose! I miss the bananna oil, it was much sweeter smelling. Kinda like W.C fields when he said, and I quote, 'Ah yes, remember the time when I was ten years old, tripped over a case of burbon, been trippin ever sinse!' hehe! Lots of good memories, just need the keys to un lock them!
bird
bird
03-28-2016, 08:15 PM
#3906
Well Bird, all you need is a brown paper bag and some of that clear dope and you got all the keys you need, damn, cheaper that LSD too!
When I was just a kid with my BB gun, my ol man had cans of R12 line up on a shelf in the garage... well I got this smart idea in my head to shoot one of those cans... door was closed and I fired off a BB, hit the can dead center... well the can immediately split wide open and the garage was encompassed in a cloud of freon gas... within seconds I became completely disorientated, hallucinated, and a headache you would not believe... the last cognitive thought I had was to get out of that garage... I managed to make it to the door and get outside into fresh air, taking deep breaths, about 15-20 minutes later the headache started to go and my vision cleared... from that day on, I never worked with solvents or substances that emitted harmful fumes inside a enclosed area... scared the hell out of me that did!
John M,
When I was just a kid with my BB gun, my ol man had cans of R12 line up on a shelf in the garage... well I got this smart idea in my head to shoot one of those cans... door was closed and I fired off a BB, hit the can dead center... well the can immediately split wide open and the garage was encompassed in a cloud of freon gas... within seconds I became completely disorientated, hallucinated, and a headache you would not believe... the last cognitive thought I had was to get out of that garage... I managed to make it to the door and get outside into fresh air, taking deep breaths, about 15-20 minutes later the headache started to go and my vision cleared... from that day on, I never worked with solvents or substances that emitted harmful fumes inside a enclosed area... scared the hell out of me that did!
John M,
Last edited by John_M_; 03-28-2016 at 08:18 PM.
03-29-2016, 10:16 AM
#3907
Well Bird, all you need is a brown paper bag and some of that clear dope and you got all the keys you need, damn, cheaper that LSD too!
When I was just a kid with my BB gun, my ol man had cans of R12 line up on a shelf in the garage... well I got this smart idea in my head to shoot one of those cans... door was closed and I fired off a BB, hit the can dead center... well the can immediately split wide open and the garage was encompassed in a cloud of freon gas... within seconds I became completely disorientated, hallucinated, and a headache you would not believe... the last cognitive thought I had was to get out of that garage... I managed to make it to the door and get outside into fresh air, taking deep breaths, about 15-20 minutes later the headache started to go and my vision cleared... from that day on, I never worked with solvents or substances that emitted harmful fumes inside a enclosed area... scared the hell out of me that did!
John M,
When I was just a kid with my BB gun, my ol man had cans of R12 line up on a shelf in the garage... well I got this smart idea in my head to shoot one of those cans... door was closed and I fired off a BB, hit the can dead center... well the can immediately split wide open and the garage was encompassed in a cloud of freon gas... within seconds I became completely disorientated, hallucinated, and a headache you would not believe... the last cognitive thought I had was to get out of that garage... I managed to make it to the door and get outside into fresh air, taking deep breaths, about 15-20 minutes later the headache started to go and my vision cleared... from that day on, I never worked with solvents or substances that emitted harmful fumes inside a enclosed area... scared the hell out of me that did!
John M,
03-29-2016, 11:13 AM
#3908
Well Bird, all you need is a brown paper bag and some of that clear dope and you got all the keys you need, damn, cheaper that LSD too!
When I was just a kid with my BB gun, my ol man had cans of R12 line up on a shelf in the garage... well I got this smart idea in my head to shoot one of those cans... door was closed and I fired off a BB, hit the can dead center... well the can immediately split wide open and the garage was encompassed in a cloud of freon gas... within seconds I became completely disorientated, hallucinated, and a headache you would not believe... the last cognitive thought I had was to get out of that garage... I managed to make it to the door and get outside into fresh air, taking deep breaths, about 15-20 minutes later the headache started to go and my vision cleared... from that day on, I never worked with solvents or substances that emitted harmful fumes inside a enclosed area... scared the hell out of me that did!
John M,
When I was just a kid with my BB gun, my ol man had cans of R12 line up on a shelf in the garage... well I got this smart idea in my head to shoot one of those cans... door was closed and I fired off a BB, hit the can dead center... well the can immediately split wide open and the garage was encompassed in a cloud of freon gas... within seconds I became completely disorientated, hallucinated, and a headache you would not believe... the last cognitive thought I had was to get out of that garage... I managed to make it to the door and get outside into fresh air, taking deep breaths, about 15-20 minutes later the headache started to go and my vision cleared... from that day on, I never worked with solvents or substances that emitted harmful fumes inside a enclosed area... scared the hell out of me that did!
John M,
03-29-2016, 07:42 PM
#3909
That reminds me when I was a kid there was a BB gun advertised in Popular Mechanics that held a full box (1200) of BBs in the magazine and was powered by a can of R-12. (Can was painted black and you kept one hand on it to warm it up when firing) I always wanted one but never could afford it. Anyone here remember the beast?
John M,
04-15-2016, 09:07 AM
#3913
I've been using dope to fuel proof with, dries much faster than finishing epoxy, and when you are limited on time, its a better plan. Since I am already spraying the fuse, why not the FW too, right?
04-19-2016, 01:44 PM
#3914
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I maidened my Great planes cub with a saito 100 today. The first flight she just got off the ground and was sluggish in the air using a matter airscrew 15 x 6. I changed the pro to a 14x6 and the plans flew very well . This is my first cub and it will not be my last.
04-20-2016, 04:15 PM
#3916
That must be one heavy Cub. My SIG flies fast with a 15 x 8 on a Saito 100. 14 x 6 would tear the wings off it. I maidened it with a 14 x 6 because my 14 x 8 was wobbling. It left the ground in 10' and went pure vertical like an F-15 on full burner. You did say Great Planes, and that is what my friend has, and it is a heavy bugger. He flies with a 70 OS on it, and I am waiting for the day I can fly mine with his, I will probably lap him. LOL
04-20-2016, 05:24 PM
#3917
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04-20-2016, 06:29 PM
#3918
That is nice. I read that Stits can be used on our planes, just not sure which. I would like to get gallon sizes of dope though that dont cost a small fortune like SIG.
04-21-2016, 04:09 AM
#3920
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That must be one heavy Cub. My SIG flies fast with a 15 x 8 on a Saito 100. 14 x 6 would tear the wings off it. I maidened it with a 14 x 6 because my 14 x 8 was wobbling. It left the ground in 10' and went pure vertical like an F-15 on full burner. You did say Great Planes, and that is what my friend has, and it is a heavy bugger. He flies with a 70 OS on it, and I am waiting for the day I can fly mine with his, I will probably lap him. LOL
04-22-2016, 01:48 PM
#3921
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04-30-2016, 11:00 AM
#3923
I can't believe you sold that Ace... that is probably one of the best looking clipped wing cubs I have seen apart from the traditional blue white (Hazel Sig) cub... you have to build another one Ace without a doubt, order the kit man!
.I have a spare J3 cub kit, just in case Sig gets stupid and stops producing them, lol
John M,
