Kit Building If you're building a kit and have questions or want to discuss kit building post it here.

Painters ?????

Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 03:42 PM
  #1
edgeflyer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 367
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Painters ?????

So how do ya'll pros hold control surfaces for painting. I paint alot (motorcycles), but had trouble holding my control surfaces on my try at a plane. I stuck sticks in the hinge holes, but the rotate, and blow around from the air presure. What is your magic solution ? Also I will be painting my F18 military colors, so whats the hot setup for flat, or semi gloss. One thing I'm REALLY trying to avoid is the chalky look soooooo many military planes have. With weight being an issue, would you go base, clear or single stage. It will be more than one color.
edgeflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 04:34 PM
  #2
Zor
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????



An excellent question.
I am anxious to read the responses.

Zor
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 02:56 AM
  #3
epr3
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 67
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

I have always installed the conrol surfaces before painting, but you could use a smaller music wire to create a "handle " by putting the wire in the outer most holes in the control surface to make a loop to hold on to and hang once it is painted
epr3 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 03:55 AM
  #4
TomCrump
 
TomCrump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 7,211
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

I install the control surfaces, too. I build fixtures to hold the wings. I mount the fuselage on an engine stand, allowing it to be rotated as I paint.

For paint, take a look at Warbird Colors. They have accurate color matching, and a realistic gloss. http://www.warbirdcolors.com/welcome.asp
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tr50258.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	28.1 KB
ID:	1728047   Click image for larger version

Name:	Qm35604.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	27.5 KB
ID:	1728048  
TomCrump is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 06:29 AM
  #5
edgeflyer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 367
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

Very cool idea on the engine stand ! Do yoe have to worry aboyt paing getting into the hinges, or coating them ?
edgeflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 06:50 AM
  #6
TomCrump
 
TomCrump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 7,211
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

Quote:
ORIGINAL: edgeflyer

Very cool idea on the engine stand ! Do yoe have to worry aboyt paing getting into the hinges, or coating them ?
The stand was $70.00 from the corner auto parts store.

I install my hinges with epoxy. This requires that I put Vaseline on the pivot points. This also protects the hinges from being penetrated by the paint.
TomCrump is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 07:03 AM
  #7
waterloged
 
waterloged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gowen, MI
Posts: 142
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

Hi Tom, I'm Jim Scofield from bullwinkels flying aces in greenville mi. I bought your PC 300 airflair several years ago at the swap in wyoming mi. it still flys and havent trashed it yet. just thought you would like to hear its still flying. Have a nice season...
waterloged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 07:10 AM
  #8
LesUyeda
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,670
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

"One thing I'm REALLY trying to avoid is the chalky look soooooo many military planes have"

I'm not sure about the more "modern" paints, but when I was doing a lot of painting, the only way you got any kind of "dull" was with a powdered additive. Therefore, if applied a little dry; chalky.

"and blow around from the air presure"

Again, from my experience that was usually the result of too much air, not enough paint, from trying to spray too thick a mix.k

Les
LesUyeda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 07:26 AM
  #9
JeffH
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Carrollton, VA
Posts: 2,263
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

Two suggestions....either "jamb" the plane like you would a car or make holding jigs using more than one of the hingle holes. If you jamb the plane, you can paint all of the leading and trailing edges, canopy edges, gear doors, etc etc, then assemble the plane, and paint the rest.
I use dowels in two hinge holes, then stick those dowels in a piece of foam, then paint. I assemble after the base color, then put all of my stripes and such on after the plane is hinged.
JeffH is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 09:12 PM
  #10
Old Fart
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,628
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

Re weight i'd go basecoat,finish the design and then clearcoat.T pins don't make big holes around control surface edges and fine tie wire between two upright poles will hold it all still for you.
Old Fart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 04:33 AM
  #11
TomCrump
 
TomCrump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 7,211
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: waterloged

Hi Tom, I'm Jim Scofield from bullwinkels flying aces in greenville mi. I bought your PC 300 airflair several years ago at the swap in wyoming mi. it still flys and havent trashed it yet. just thought you would like to hear its still flying. Have a nice season...

Thanks for the update, Jim. I really liked that model, and hated to part with it.
TomCrump is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 06:26 AM
  #12
OldScaleGuy
 
OldScaleGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seymour, IN
Posts: 2,790
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

For Robart type hinges i spot glue dowels in place leaving a gap large enough to get good coverage to leading and trailing edges. Whit pinn type hinges, i sacrifice some hinges by glueing the hinge joint to make it virtually unusable. These are saved for future projects, i have used thin plywood and sheet brass for the same job but it is much faster to sacrifice a few hinges for an instant "paint fixture".
OldScaleGuy is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 08:25 AM
  #13
frequent flyer
 
frequent flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 1,365
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

I have a number of pine 1 x 4 blocks the are a foot long, from these blocks I made two vertical pieces of 1/16" piano wire that I sharpened the ends. I glued these into the blocks with the points sticking up. When I paint a control surface I just press it on the two wires guiding them into a couple if the hinge holes. It works great and I put tape on the hinges that I usually epoxy into one have before painting.
frequent flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 09:45 AM
  #14
OldScaleGuy
 
OldScaleGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seymour, IN
Posts: 2,790
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: frequent flyer

I have a number of pine 1 x 4 blocks the are a foot long, from these blocks I made two vertical pieces of 1/16'' piano wire that I sharpened the ends. I glued these into the blocks with the points sticking up. When I paint a control surface I just press it on the two wires guiding them into a couple if the hinge holes. It works great and I put tape on the hinges that I usually epoxy into one have before painting.
I used to do something very similar but due to my lack of being a great painter i always ended up with an off color due to more paint on let's same an elevator than the horizontal stabilizer. Attaching them in close proximity of each solved that problem and now the surfaces are much more consistent with each other.
OldScaleGuy is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 07:36 PM
  #15
edgeflyer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 367
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

A great builder friend of mine told me to do the dowels in the hinge hole method, but I think my dowels needed to be tighter, just like to know what other genious methods are out there. Thanks
edgeflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 09:09 PM
  #16
countilaw
 
countilaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 1,254
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: LesUyeda

"One thing I'm REALLY trying to avoid is the chalky look soooooo many military planes have"

I'm not sure about the more "modern" paints, but when I was doing a lot of painting, the only way you got any kind of "dull" was with a powdered additive. Therefore, if applied a little dry; chalky.

"and blow around from the air presure"

Again, from my experience that was usually the result of too much air, not enough paint, from trying to spray too thick a mix.k

Les

Les,

If you have a automotive paint supplier near you, and they carry PPG brand of paint, they will have a clear called " Flex Clear". This is a clear coat that dries flat. You have all the protection of a clear coat with the uv protectorant it contains, plus the ability to clean it with soap and water. It is also nitro proof.

You will need to get the clear activator with it and mix it 4 parts clear to 1 part activator. Add some reducer to it to get it thin enough to atomize through your spray gun.

You will like the results.

Frank

countilaw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 09:11 PM
  #17
countilaw
 
countilaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 1,254
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: LesUyeda

"One thing I'm REALLY trying to avoid is the chalky look soooooo many military planes have"

I'm not sure about the more "modern" paints, but when I was doing a lot of painting, the only way you got any kind of "dull" was with a powdered additive. Therefore, if applied a little dry; chalky.

"and blow around from the air presure"

Again, from my experience that was usually the result of too much air, not enough paint, from trying to spray too thick a mix.k

Les

Les,

If you have a automotive paint supplier near you, and they carry PPG brand of paint, they will have a clear called " Flex Clear". This is a clear coat that dries flat. You have all the protection of a clear coat with the uv protectorant it contains, plus the ability to clean it with soap and water. It is also nitro proof.

You will need to get the clear activator with it and mix it 4 parts clear to 1 part activator. Add some reducer to it to get it thin enough to atomize through your spray gun.

You will like the results.

Frank

countilaw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 10:35 PM
  #18
bigtim
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: san francisco, CA
Posts: 4,124
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: edgeflyer

So how do ya'll pros hold control surfaces for painting. I paint alot (motorcycles), but had trouble holding my control surfaces on my try at a plane. I stuck sticks in the hinge holes, but the rotate, and blow around from the air presure. What is your magic solution ? Also I will be painting my F18 military colors, so whats the hot setup for flat, or semi gloss. One thing I'm REALLY trying to avoid is the chalky look soooooo many military planes have. With weight being an issue, would you go base, clear or single stage. It will be more than one color.
couple of ways if you use pin hinges I just use the stick method but use 2 sticks taped to the edge of a box at each end so it holds the item steady,then you can shoot both sides, trying to paint with only one stick just leads to frustration, for CA type hinge slots a "T" pin through the cardboard at the hinge locations,it will hold the elevator or whatever your painting in position vertically so you can do both sides.

I usually build warbirds so there is usually a 2 tone scheme, a lighter under side and darker upper, so after doing the underside, I usually just tape the area to be masked and tack the surface down to a box with some small pieces of tape so it won't slide around,my latest project was to paint my ESM FW190 in a more scale scheme while still using the existing logos
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ur51975.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	56.0 KB
ID:	1728897   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xs59641.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	79.9 KB
ID:	1728898   Click image for larger version

Name:	Db84252.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	60.6 KB
ID:	1728899  
bigtim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 07:19 AM
  #19
LesUyeda
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,670
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

countilaw

Thanks. You may have missed my "when" I was; I haven't been doing that for quite some time now, and don't see it in future.

Les
LesUyeda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 08:21 AM
  #20
SunDevilPilot
 
SunDevilPilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 2,015
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

I use a coat hangar inserted into the hinge holes. The hangar is bent in a way I need to pull it wider to get it to enter the holes. With some tension built into the wire the surface will stay on the wire while painting. The wire makes for a nice handle to hold while painting. It is then used to hang the part while it dries. When done you just pull it out.

SunDevilPilot
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ec89366.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	79.0 KB
ID:	1729042  
SunDevilPilot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 09:02 PM
  #21
bigtim
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: san francisco, CA
Posts: 4,124
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

that looks killer I am going to use the coat hangar
bigtim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 08:08 AM
  #22
raptureboy
 
raptureboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kempton PA
Posts: 2,595
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????

Well I just lay them flat on some cardboard or paper and spray with my airbrush. not enough pressure to move them around and when the top dries I flip over. I use latex paint so it dries in about 30 min. I'm not sure what you mean by chalky finish warbirds have. If your modeling a warbird that's been in combat the finish will be anything but nice and shiney or pretty looking. Navy planes had the worst chalky looking finish from salt air and sun. Remember these were tools of war and should be all dented dirty and faded.
raptureboy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 09:58 AM
  #23
Zor
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Painters ?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: raptureboy

>
>
>
Navy planes had the worst chalky looking finish from salt air and sun. Remember these were tools of war and should be all dented dirty and faded.
When I walk around the grounds at an airport I do not see shiny, waxed, polished airplanes like we often see cars in an automobile showroom.

I like my models to look like they have been flown and they have.

A full size J3 or Citabria does not look like it has been finished with Monokote or similar material .
My models are not built full of fine details. They are not for competition.
I build them to be solid (as crash resistant as I can) and to fly them.

I am still planning for my next build to be a Twin Comanche (my avatar) which I flew for the company for nearly two years. I am designing the structure myself and the drawings are 50% done.
I have just bought a Ryobi disk and belt sander to facilitate my work. It certainly will not be a kit .

I will not only build the parts but will assemble them __Hee! Hee! .

Have a great day everyone.

Zor

Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:29 AM.