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Whats happened to Monocoat ?

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Old 04-02-2012, 01:43 PM
  #51
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?


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ORIGINAL: bipeman-RCU

Actually the best thing to do with California is to make the entire state into a National Park. All permanent residents and businesses must leave (but may not move to Texas).
Please do "NOT" send them to Wyoming either!
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:03 PM
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

I used Monocote for 15 years, and then I discovered Ultracote. End of story. Ultracote is Superior in every facet of plastic iron on coverings.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

Just finished an aircraft useing Monokotewhite, red and two transparents Yellow and blue. Turned out great!! Three were just purchased at the LHS. I'm going to continue to user it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

Mike, have you or anyone else tried that covering from Hobbyking? a 25 foot roll sells for about the price of a monokote 6' roll. I haven't done it yet because I don't know how good the stuff is and because I don't want all my future planes the same color. I used towerkote once, but the sun rotted out the the pigment and it separated in open bays away from the plastic. Had to recover the whole plane.

Jeff
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:16 AM
  #55
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

Both Milt and I have tried the HK covering. I'd rate it as better than Moneycoat but not nearly as good as Ultracoat. You get what you pay for. I prolly won't be buying it again but then I started with 3-25 foot rolls (red, white, and black) and I still have a lot of it left. If ya want to try it "come on down" and I'll give ya some, especially if it's NOT for a "Leckie".
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:32 AM
  #56
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

That is a different blue than the one I used. The stuff I used was dark metallic. The more I tried to shrink the one bay the more wrinkled it got. I had two bays that were a little lax and I just could not get them to tighten up, and when I applied just a touch more heat I can see the plastic shrink then it holed. The white and yellow however shrunk up nicely with the iron, but the blue would not even with it cranked up all the way, so I switched to the heat gun.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:01 AM
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?


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ORIGINAL: jeffp51

Mike, have you or anyone else tried that covering from Hobbyking? a 25 foot roll sells for about the price of a monokote 6' roll. I haven't done it yet because I don't know how good the stuff is and because I don't want all my future planes the same color. I used towerkote once, but the sun rotted out the the pigment and it separated in open bays away from the plastic. Had to recover the whole plane.

Jeff
I really like the HK covering. Done 5 planes with it now, including two 50cc and a 30cc and haven't had any problems at all. It's got some good properties of both MK and UC. White is more opaque than UC. However, each color is a little different. For instance, the blue and black will stick down to an already covered surface just like MK. If I use those colors for trim, I just lay them down, use a credit card to squeegee out the bubbles, then go over it with a low heat iron to seal it down. It won't bubble as much as MK does. Other colors like the red and yellow have a white adhesive backing so you get a more visible seam if you're not careful. A bit of acetone will clean it up, though. I do wish they would offer more colors, though. But the price makes it a very good deal. Under $9 for a 5 meter roll! Even with shipping, it's still a LOT cheaper.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:14 AM
  #58
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

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If ya want to try it "come on down" and I'll give ya some, especially if it's NOT for a "Leckie".
My current project is [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11004737/tm.htm]here[/link]. Definitely not an electric
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:24 AM
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

I cannot believe no one has mentioned the poor color matching between lots of Monokote. I have had problems with missile red and olive drab that are so badly matched, you would not guess they were the same color except for the label. I have had problems with adhesion of trim with MK after just using heat, and frequently have to use trim solvent to get it to stay down.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: Whats happened to Monocoat ?

Same here, the blue kept coming loose at the seam and I wound up using the trim solvent, and ofcourse the color bleeds out a little, onto the white.

However, for patching cant be beat. A little solvent, a piece of covering, stick it on , squeegee a little and patched.
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:38 AM
  #61
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:39 AM
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Oops, just a test. Sorry 'bout that.
Ken McCormack
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:11 AM
  #63
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HK covering works pretty darn good for me. Covered this about two years ago and still looks great.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:55 AM
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Wow, that is nothing short of spectacular. The hardest thing to have trim stick down well is with a pointy piece and all those flames,,,,, wow.

Earlier, in this thread, I mentioned how well MonoKote sticks to itself and how Ultracote doesn't even when both the surface and the underside of the trim are cleaned with acetone. I DIDN'T mean that I expected the acetone to dissolve the adhesive so as to stick it to the base.

Illustrated is a downsized Tsunami (.049/1/2A) that I eventually powered with a Norvel .074 because it came out a little heavy. It was covered in Ultracote including the trim.

Despite the acetone treatment and LOTS of heat to stick it down, the Ultracote trim has pulled away at the tips of the trim. If I pull on that piece, the trim just pulls away more. I've treated some lifted pieces with acetone again and stuck it down, but it hasn't been flown since.

Small engines typically use as much as 35% nitro. The MonoKote I know, would withstand easily, soaking a piece in a jar of 35% nitro for days. When cleaned with acetone, it would stick down as if nothing happened.

I would love to order 25 feet of all the primary colours of HK cote and be done with it for the lifetime I might have left.

Could you do me a favour and take some HK cote and stick it into a jar of high nitro fuel and let us know?

Or, PM me and send me a sample in an envelope and I'll do the test.

From all the info I've seen, it certainly appears that MK has changed for the worse. Prior to the last few years, you NEVER heard fans of the product complain. For my part, I NEVER had problems with it and trim ALWAYS stayed stuck down.

I'm sure that if changes were made, Top Flite was forced into it. I used to run an industrial supply store and many times, a good product was made mediocre or even discontinued because of new regualtions. The real danger I see now is that the nanny state is slowly turning into a police state.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:24 AM
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The highest nitro fuel I have is 20%. That's what I'm using in this bipe and it's been two years with no problems of the covering lifting even around the firewall area, I did use balsarite around the firewall. I didn't use any trim solvent or nail polish on the edge of the flames. I turned the iron temp down and slowly ironed them down pushing the bubbles ahead of the iron and out the edges. Send me a PM with your address and can mail you some to test with a higher nitro fuel.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post

I'm sure that if changes were made, Top Flite was forced into it. I used to run an industrial supply store and many times, a good product was made mediocre or even discontinued because of new regualtions. The real danger I see now is that the nanny state is slowly turning into a police state.
There is a product that I used to paint plastic models with that simulated polished aluminum, I forget what it is called, but they too were forced to change the formula and it isnt anywhere near as good as it was, now it rubs off too easily, and the top coating turns yellow after a while. I recently pained a 1/72 B Mustang with it, and every time I pick it up I have silver fingers. The good stuff came in a clear bottle with little steel balls in it for mixing, and when it sat for a while, the silver would settle to the bottom and the fluid was green. I still have a couple old bottles, but the solvent evaporated and the thinner they make now is incompatible, turns it to sludge.

Damned EPA! Climate Nazis.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:57 PM
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I still don't know why people have a problem with Ultra trim lifting? I use it all the time and don't have a problem with it. I put it on with just enough temp so I don't get bubbles then turn up my iron or the trim iron on high and go around the edges and tips. I just used Mono and Ultra over the HK Chinacote and can't lift either. On the Mono I put it down with water and ammonia then ironed it down with a low temp then did the edges. During my tests with the HK covering I used acetone to lay it down and it's stuck on there forever. The big problem with the acetone is it gasses off so fast it's hard to use. Perhaps it does have something to do with the high nitro? I only use 15% and none of my planes using covering get a lot of exhaust on the plane. 30% nitro I did run for testing purposes but it was only a flight or two.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:57 PM
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OK, here's what I found! The old Super Monokote would shrink when you poured the heat to it. This new junk Shrinks when it cools! So, apply a light pass with heat and when it cools it shrinks some. Another pass with heat & so on! Is a pain but eventually you can get it tight. Pour the heat to it & it goes as limp as a wet dishrag and you have problems BIG Time! One guy told me he cut the stop off on his iron so he could get it hotter, BUT that isn't the solution. Many passes with low heat gets it done. Like so many have said, I've gone to Ultrakote!!
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:42 AM
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Double edged sword, it droops then tightens with heat. Its that final moment when it tightens that if you wait another millisecond, then you have a hole. I have also done the pass/cool/pass thing, usually blowing on it after hitting it with heat you can hear it tighten up. Now I only use the stuff to repair the planes I have covered, and have gone to fabric covering. Takes me longer, but it looks much nicer.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:33 AM
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Living in a desert my planes are in the direct hot sun all the time so what good is mono to me. I use it for trim with ammonia and water, never for a base color. Too many better products on the market these days.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Beard View Post
I still don't know why people have a problem with Ultra trim lifting? I use it all the time and don't have a problem with it. I put it on with just enough temp so I don't get bubbles then turn up my iron or the trim iron on high and go around the edges and tips. I just used Mono and Ultra over the HK Chinacote and can't lift either. On the Mono I put it down with water and ammonia then ironed it down with a low temp then did the edges. During my tests with the HK covering I used acetone to lay it down and it's stuck on there forever. The big problem with the acetone is it gasses off so fast it's hard to use. Perhaps it does have something to do with the high nitro? I only use 15% and none of my planes using covering get a lot of exhaust on the plane. 30% nitro I did run for testing purposes but it was only a flight or two.

It could be the nitro but I don't think so. How much nitro is left over after combustion in the engine? How much nitro comes out of the exhaust pipe?

There once was a low odor paint called Perfect paint. It was a urethane paint and worked well.

BUT, if you used a 100% synthetic oil based paint, the exhaust residue would eventually soften it. If you used a 100% castor based fuel, no problems. I normally just wipe down my planes really well with paper towels, I don't do the Windex thing so maybe that's what I'm doing wrong.

BUT

In the very early days of SUPER-Monokote, when I had a heated garage, I would wipe down the engine area mostly and not pay much mind to the wings, tail etc. Soaked in oil of any kind and never had a problem. When Ultracote came out and I started to have issues with it, I soaked samples of both MK and Ultra and the MK sat there like nothing but the Ultra softened.

If HK Kote behaves like early MK, then I will be buying full rolls of the primary colors and short rolls of various others for trim.

Pictured is what happened to my Tsunami. Note that the trim that's lifting comes to a very sharp point, and gets dosed heavily with exhaust oil and yes, I use 25% Cool Power on this plane, a 100% synthetic oil fuel. I use it because It's VERY good and even has better idling and throttling over some others. God, I hope they aren't forced to change THAT someday.

I started up with small electrics a while ago so that I could fly in the gym in winter and this was a lot of fun stimulating new ideas to try. NOW, Li-Pos can't be shipped by mail anymore,,, NOW what do we do? Maybe when I order that film from HK, the freight cost will justify adding several years worth of LiPos till they come up with a sensible solution.

About shrinking. In the early days, heat guns were not the norm and we used our iron for that job. Heat guns made it much easier and effective and we never got holes, they made the gun temps just right so that you couldn't screw up. I've used some films that burned through too easily and went back to the iron. I would set the iron to high and apply a test strip. If it melted, I'd turn down the iron in increments, each time waiting a few minutes between tests till the film shrank agressively but didn't melt. As you applied the iron, the film would draw off some heat and there would be zero chance of a burn though. If you had to concentrate on one area, the setting would never allow for melting. Forget what Kote that was, it was ultra thin for small planes, no longer available.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Beard View Post
Living in a desert my planes are in the direct hot sun all the time so what good is mono to me. I use it for trim with ammonia and water, never for a base color. Too many better products on the market these days.
I know of Monokote, Ultracote, Chinakote, TowerKote,,,

Perhaps this would be a good thread to discuss as many brands as we can. Everyone chime in with their experiences.

Litecoate is a synthetic tissue, with a very thin sealer applied at the factory. It CAN be used straight but there still is some measure of porosity. On my 1/2A Low Stick, I sealed it with clear dope and that has held up very well with 25 to 35% nitro fuel. This one is applied by brushing on an adhesive on all the edges of the airframe, At ovelaps, you use a fine brush to get the adhesive under the loose flap and let it dry and then apply the iron. It has limited shrinkability so you have to apply it drum tight at the get go. You can't have sags, bags or wrinkles. Done right, and it IS harder to apply, you do need practice, done right and it will never go baggy, never.

The good thing with the inherent porosity, is that you never get bubbles under the trim. As well, no bubbles over sheeted surfaces.

The trim needs to have a coat of adhesive applied on the underside first, The neat thing is that when you apply the dope, the trim gets fully sealed, and I've never had trim lift off. The adhesive is waterbased and once dry, it resists exhaust oil well, but I have always used an overcoat so YMMV. I use it on 1/2A because it's the absolute lightest covering you can get. That's excluding some of the electric ARFs coming from China. Some of THOSE melt like butter when exposed to raw fuel,,, well, the adhesive/color does.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:04 PM
  #73
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I still would like to know how the ARF's coverved with MK come out so good I'm pretty sure it's pre cut and shaped to make application easier but....... Just one of those things that make you go hummm.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:49 AM
  #74
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Personally I don't think that the Arf companies have so great a covering job on their airplanes, but maybe that is just me.

Bob
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:07 AM
  #75
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Quote:
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Personally I don't think that the Arf companies have so great a covering job on their airplanes, but maybe that is just me.

Bob
Actually sensei for thew most part you're right. I've really only seen a few ARF's that I thought had fairly decent covering jobs. I would just like to see the process of how they do it. They punch them things out one after the other. Must have 100 people in an assenbly line and the plane come down the line and each person covers one or two parts then it moves on.
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