tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

"Is it me or has the quality of balsa in the kits changed?"

I see most ARF's last about a year with heavy use as opposed to a kit build...BUT the ARF's are built so light and fly so well. Just weighed a new ARF (U-Can-Do) and it came out as 2 pounds 13.9 oz! That is the entire airframe....don't think I build that light

lflf

My Feedback: (1)

I think you have a good point there as far as building as we get older. When I reached 60 (I'm now 63) I noticed that my patience level for building kits, or doing anything thing else that required "fussing" really started to decrease. I build a kit once in a while, but generally buy ARF's. The ability to build kits seems greatest in the middle aged guys, after the age of 50 it seems to go down quite a lot. Most of the retired guys I've known over the years, some that built some really hot pattern and racing type scratch models when they were younger, start showing up with ARF's as they hit their 60's. . Maybe those old kit builders are just sticking to their shops and not coming out, I don't know.

SushiHunter

Yeah, if building is no longer any fun anymore for whatever reason, reallocating all focus on flying is the way to go. That's what I will do if I no longer have the patience or physical ability to build them anymore. I'm in my 40s now so... 50 is just like Sesame Street - Just around the corner.

acdii

I am building a SIG 1/5th Cub, and compared to the Great Planes ARF if the same scale it is coming out much lighter than the ARF. It all depends on the Kit design, and wood used. So far the heaviest component is the landing gear itself.

SushiHunter

The name of the game with the ARF and RTF companies is amount of materials and quality of those materials involved for each plane build. They build with such marginal amount of quality and materials that the planes really aren't built to last like a lot of everything else these days. If they built the ARFs and RTFs to last, first off, more materials would go into each plane. The cost of the additional materials would cut into their profit margin. Second, if the planes were built to last, consumers wouldn't go through them as quickly. IMO....to the average everyday younger generation r/c'er, ARFs and RTFs are basically built for one to two full flying seasons at best. After that, it's move on and get another ARF/RTF.

A few months ago, I purchased a RTF plug and play deal. I did so because I wanted something that I could fly in a more versatile setting, instead of the strict designated r/c field. Something that I could fly at the beach or at the park on a nice day. So I picked up this plane and had some fun with it. But after a half dozen or so flights, the ESC failed. And then a week or so later one of the flap servos failed. The next thing that fails on this plane and I'm going to call it quits with it. But what to expect from a relatively cheap, already made setup. The company and/or vender has a very good return policy for such items. But it's starting to be too much maintenance for such a simple cheap plane.

I can sort of compare this to my car experiences. I have an American made classic muscle car and I had to replace the radiator three times within 175,000 miles Each time I spent roughly a total of $250 replacing the radiator, coolant and thermostat myself. I've also got a 528i BMW which just hit the 175,000 miles mark last summer and the factory radiator just went out. I replaced it with a BMW radiator that I purchased from the dealership. In total it cost me $700 to do this replacement in the BMW. So, comparing the two cars, the BMW actually cost me $50 less plus I only had to spend my time once in 175,000 miles changing out a radiator in the BMW compared to doing the work three times on the other car within the same amount of miles.

Bottom line is, BMW radiators cost more, but the quality and materials that go into them is far superior compared to what I get for the other car. Greater quality and materials comes with a higher price. But in the long run, it's actually more cost effective to go with the more expensive item. Same with the r/c hobby. if your avid about r/c flying, ARFs and RTF's are cheaper and more convenient in the short run, but not in the long run.

BelAirBob

A few years ago there was a tidal wave of support for Tower/Great Planes to rekit the UltraSport. After a while, they did reproduce the US 40 and 60. I know I bought a few of both. I built one and have the others on the shelf. Wish they had rekitted the US1000 also, as it was my favorite. It all comes down to economics. If the manufacturer thinks they can sell a certain number and make a profit, they probably will. I just saw on the back of the new Flying Models Magazine that Balsa USA has rekitted 3 oldies......let;s see if people put their money where their mouth is on these.....

bob

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I'm building a Sig 4 Star 20 that is designed to be ARF flimsy. It's intended for electric but can be changed for glow. I love Sig kits, but this kit is getting a lot of much needed wood added all over the place.

SushiHunter

Adding some wood is what I do sometimes as well. Like the SIG Komet I'm building right now. I beefed up the horizontal and vertical stab area with some extra internal balsa. I'm also planning to have two dowels where the wing goes into the fuselage at the leading edge. The plans call for only one, but I'm incorporating the same system that the SIG Kougar has. Also going to do the same thing at the trailing edge of the wing where the aileron assembly and nylon wing bolts join the wing and the fuselage together. The plans seem to be a little weak in that area. The Kougar is somewhat smaller but has a much better system in that area. I plan to build the Komet the same in those areas.

BOLT

I had a 4* 60 that crashed past Sunday. This model was eight years old!!! and was re-covered twice. Being a kit, I was able to built it my-way, it was tough as a rock. It crashed due to radio failure. Eight years flying practically every Sunday, now try that with an ARF!!! My daughter gave me a Great PLanes ESCAPADE for Xmas, nice model,.... but I'm building another 4*

GerKonig

I have a 1/4 scale clipped wing cub. I would like them to come out again with the cabin Waco ARF they had, I missed that one by one inch (when i was ready to buy they were out of stock). Beautiful model

The 4 star series (kits) are all easy to convert to electrics.

Gerry

stevegauth30

I'd be a VERY happy man if they came out with a cabin waco kit, in 1/5 or 1/4 scale. I'd buy a few of em right off the rip.as for the original post here, I don't think sig needs saving. They're doing just fine. They still sell most of the kits from years ago along with there pretty extensive line of arfs. They ventured into electric when the time was right and now have that corner of the market as well. I think there here to stay!

acdii

SIG is definitely here to stay. The new owners have great CS, and when they ship, they ship fast, if something isn't in stock they notify you right away with options. If you have questions before purchasing, they answer them right away, and are very helpful.

Yes, SIG doesn't need saving, they already have.

CafeenMan

Last month I bought three kits and 18 rolls of covering from Sig. I guess now I have to buy a King Kobra. Darn.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

I'm 2 years in a Top Flite Cessna 182 and there is a big difference between this kit and an ARF/RTF in materials and design. The first thing I did was hit the reviews and as many builds as I could find and started my list of modifications. One item was replacing some liteply with plywood to beef up the landing gear. Like every kit I have ever built I add a little reinforcement where I think its needed.

On another note my LHS reports having seen a remarkable increase interest in wood building, both kits and scratch, with younger fliers over the last three years. He has been special ordering kits on a weekly basis for some time with SIG being well represented.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

I think I too would entertain purchasing a Waco kit made by SIG! I'm still holding out hope for a resurrection of Maxie's STA.

loopdeeloop

My Feedback: (4)

Last October I was on a road trip that took me close enough to Montezuma, IA (the home of SIG MFG) that I stopped in and asked if I could buy a 1/4 scale (full wing cub) kit. They did not have one kitted up but the folks at SIG bent over backwards to get one kitted up for me and while that was going on, I asked for and got a tour of the facility. More on that in a bit but I personally have great attachment to SIG products ranging from Koverall, to their coatings, balsa, and their kits. The LT-40 is obviously famous (I've had two of them), a 4-Star 60 and now the 1/4 scale cub kit that I have not yet started plus a bunch of other SIG aircraft that I did not build personally. Here is a shot of the 4-Star complete with cowl. Great "throw around" airplane.



As to whether or not SIG can survive in this very crowded market place is a good question. The hubby/wife team I spoke with has been there about 20 years. But, the head count at SIG is in the mid 20's. This is not a large company by any means. The facility is very dated, somewhat cluttered, but everyone knows where everything is so "clutter" is not necessarily a bad thing. A sound business plan and production of products the consumer wants at a competitive price is what determines whether a company survives. The new clipped wing 4-Stars seem to be popular. Their selection of building supplies (balsa, etc) was extensive and the materials I looked at were of excellent quality. I will continue to use SIG products and buy there kits/arfs as long as they are around.

joebob

My Feedback: (14)

I'd like to see an update to the 4*120 kit to make it a 2-piece wing. Only reason I don't have one now is I don't have the vehicle to transport an 80" wing in one piece.

SushiHunter

I've had the same issue as well. Didn't feel like purchasing a new truck just to transport a new plane. Someone had mentioned a pretty cool idea. A box large enough to fit the wing/plane and attach it to a roof rack on the car. If there was a bird I wanted to purchase that I couldn't fit inside any of my cars, I'd seriously look into getting one of these.

Yakima makes one that is 96" x 36" x 16" as seen below.

stevegauth30

that ain't a half bad idea...

lfd47

My Feedback: (13)

Here is my new 4*64, I am very happy with the construction, easy build. I went with a Saito 100. Waiting for weather to maiden. I also have a Sig Astrohog that is awesome.

stevegauth30

Boy do I miss my astro hog. She was my first airplane with a K&B 61. I sold it to fund the construction of a hog bipe. Also missed dearly.

CafeenMan

Man... it's a shame that Sig doesn't make Hogs any more.

By the way, I bought a Mini Hog short kit from LDS. Looks like it will be a nice little plane.

http://store.laser-design-services.c...index&cPath=17

I have the plans for the Pteranodon so bought that short kit too. It came with plans so now I have two sets.

http://store.laser-design-services.c...products_id=75

SrTelemaster150

I used to haul the 95" one piece wing & fuselage of my Sr Telemaster in an '85 VW Golf. I had plenty of room for the support gear also.

stevegauth30

I actually strap the fuse of my 1/4 cap to the roof rack of my Subaru outback. I could fit it inside if I remove the prop and spinner, but...

SrTelemaster150

The Golf had a front seat that would fold forward as well as the back. That made a big difference.