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  1. #26

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Here is a pic of my PBY. The elevators are super shrink coverite with Randophs tinted non-Tautening Nitrate thinned. Over the elevator ribs are strips of super shrink to look like what, I don't know.

    I'd be using Nitrate to fill the weave on my Fleet but I've so much butyrate to use up and I just didn't want any more at this time.

    Ray W.
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  2. #27
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    RE: Dope cover question


    ORIGINAL: Fleet

    Here is a pic of my PBY. The elevators are super shrink coverite with Randophs tinted non-Tautening Nitrate thinned. Over the elevator ribs are strips of super shrink to look like what, I don't know.

    I'd be using Nitrate to fill the weave on my Fleet but I've so much butyrate to use up and I just didn't want any more at this time.

    Ray W.
    Ray W.

    Leavens Brother.suppliers to the full size airplane refinishers and selling Randolph dope,,are telling me that nitrate is only madein clear dope.

    They explain that nitrate is formulated for better adhesian while butyrate is formulated for pigment dispersion and more glossy surface finish.

    Just letting you know what they told me.

    Zor


  3. #28

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    RE: Dope cover question

    It would be my guess that Randolphs is the only source in the States as they have been at it much longer than I can keep up with. Aero Gloss, Sig, and all the others may find their roots in it. In the 60's, one could go to the local FBO/Repair Station and get a quart of Randolphs from retail sales. Not cheap then as the FBO had to add their efforts in the cost. That written, I could , with thinning, cover nearly two to three C/L birds.

    ...then came iron on stuff.

    Alumnium power used to be added to Nitrate as the second coat on a cotton fabric plane. First coat on cotton was a fungicide for obvious reasons. Dacron and Ceconite don't need the fungicide but the alumnium tint would help with UV and outdoor hangering. The blue is so thin and I've found no source as to what they used. I bet it wasn't food coloring... or maybe it was.


    Now, I think Rand O Fill may be the same treatment.

    Ray W.
    Fleet Brotherhood #7

  4. #29

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    RE: Dope cover question

    In case your were interested...

    Fleet Brotherhood #7

  5. #30

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Yes, Randolph has tinted. Pigmented nitrate is also available. We've been through this before. I gave the source for pigmented nitrate dopes. The site still works. They still sell pigmented dopes. I have some. Zor does not believe me, but I can't help that.

    http://www.freeflightmodels.com/index.html

    Go to Building Supplies...Paint and Related Products. They carry non-tautening nitrate in blue, red, orange, silver, cream and olive drab.

    The silver nitrate makes a nice base coat.

    Jim

  6. #31

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    RE: Dope cover question

    hmm y'all are making me want to build an ol WWI bird like a Jenny now and cover it with cloth and dope.  You guys are going to kill my budget, you know that doncha!
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  7. #32

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Budget smudget, if you looking to save money, find another hobby.  Just kidding.

    The reward is greater when you sit back, sip an iced tea and admire your work.  Not everyone is into building airplanes anymore much less go the fabric/silk, and dope route.  Pizza guy came to the door via my garage shop and noticed I build airplanes.   He was agast that it still can be done.  

    I'm not sure that it cost anymore than a few rolls of 'tex, or what ever is out there. 

    Ray W.
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  8. #33
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    RE: Dope cover question


    ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

    Yes, Randolph has tinted. Pigmented nitrate is also available. We've been through this before. I gave the source for pigmented nitrate dopes. The site still works. They still sell pigmented dopes. I have some. Zor does not believe me, but I can't help that.

    http://www.freeflightmodels.com/index.html

    Go to Building Supplies...Paint and Related Products. They carry non-tautening nitrate in blue, red, orange, silver, cream and olive drab.

    The silver nitrate makes a nice base coat.

    Jim
    Hello Jim,

    I just read the whole thread again and I do not see where I told you that I do not believe you.

    Again all I said is quote Leavens information to me. Perhaps it is their way of nothaving to explain why they do not stock it. It is easy to say "it is not manufactured".

    Personally I never felt the need for colored nitrate and never seeked a supply.

    I see the picture posted and the label.
    Perhaps the supplier adds the pigment locally and Leavens may have their reason unknown to me why they would not color the nitrate. They do color the butyrate in their own location.

    Whatever the situation is I wonder what would be the advantage of using colored nitrate else than on a very light model with a delicate frame and no butyrate used as a finish.

    Zor


  9. #34

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    RE: Dope cover question

    I truly thank you all for your replies, It has given me a great deal of research to do before making my finaldecision. I amalso building a 60" wing span Telemaster to get me back into the air again. Ihave been looking at other materials since I have been talking to you guys.You input has really helped .

    Bassard


  10. #35

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Nice tail

  11. #36

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Sorry Zor, it was just another thread from quite awhile ago, I shouldn't have mentioned it.

    I think nitrate dries quicker and doesn't keep shrinking as long as butyrate, so I think there is a little advantage to using silver and/or cream nitrate for a base coat. Of course the final coats still need to be butyrate for glow fuel.

    Years ago some people who flew diesels would use nothing but nitrate. You could do the same with gas, but water based paints are popular for gas.

    Jim

  12. #37
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    RE: Dope cover question


    ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

    Sorry Zor, it was just another thread from quite awhile ago, I shouldn't have mentioned it.

    I think nitrate dries quicker and doesn't keep shrinking as long as butyrate, so I think there is a little advantage to using silver and/or cream nitrate for a base coat. Of course the final coats still need to be butyrate for glow fuel.

    Years ago some people who flew diesels would use nothing but nitrate. You could do the same with gas, but water based paints are popular for gas.

    Jim
    Mo problem Jim and thanks for the explanation.

    Zor


  13. #38
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    RE: Dope cover question

    "little advantage to using silver "

    Silver was originally used as a UV blocker, to protect the fabric. I don't know why cream, except, perhaps, to give a uniform color to paint over, so that differnces between open and solid structure is not as noticeable, and does not take as much paint to cover.

    Les

  14. #39

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Silver really works as a UV blocker. I have a 40 year old VK Nieuport that still has its original silk and still flies. But an old Goldberg Skylark covered in silk and painted with orange dope deteriorated quickly after bringing it out of basement storage. Of course you can use silver butyrate and it will have the same effect.

    However, if you try to paint red, yellow, or white over silver, it looks dark.

    I'm surprised Aerodyne doesn't seem to offer a white nitrate dope, but I imagine their cream would do fine as a base.

    Jim

  15. #40
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    RE: Dope cover question

    Sounds like a lot of work.  Solartex/Worldtex works great.  Looks and feels like fabric but shrinks better than Monokote.  And it comes in a lot of colors and can be layered on top of other Solartex//Worldtex for trim.

  16. #41

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    RE: Dope cover question

    Thats the colored fabric you iron on and fly, correct?  I have that on my Dewey, the only thing I can tell you is as it ages, and gets Glow fuel on it over time the coloring softens and gets really tacky.  It feels rubbery too.
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  17. #42

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    RE: Dope cover question

    ItIS alot of work but I'm reminided of the old saw that bikers would say:

    " If I had to explain it, you wouldn't understand anyway".

    It is a deeper satisfaction had from doing something well and a bit different. Besides, there is noothersolutionfor simulated rib stitch and rib tape.


    Ray W.

    Fleet Brotherhood #7


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