Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
#76
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RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Hey Leroy. Just found this thread, now subscribed. I have a Tiger 60 waiting to get built, after the shop is finished. God, will it ever get finished??? I just love the squareish??? look of the Tiger. In post # 13, you asked if anyone was interested in your method of making tube sleeves. I didn't see any reply's to that. Did I miss something??? If not I am interested. Always wanting to learn something new. Please post your method.
Thanks
Thanks
#77
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Hello Kevin, welcome to the bash, "hate that word". Yeah, that sleeve, it was fun,"oh sure", nothing like the how easy to do as explained to me. Anyway the aluminum tube was waxed up about 3 times with Minwax floor polish and then applied the glass resin and rolled 1.50 0z. fiberglass on full length about 4 times while appling the resin, after it cured I cut a strip off the full length with a razor knife, kinda like peeling a potato and a couple of twists it came lose and pulled off. I had a 1/2" pipe tap that screwed in the end of the tube and was clamped in a vice to hold it after I split it. Problem is the resin shrinks and there is no way it's just gonna slide off as I was told. Now take a length of packing tape and put it on the length of tube, if you can cut it about 1 1/4" wide you will have a very firm fitting tube when done. Now wax it up again and put another film of wax on it, after it's dry buff it a little and slide the sleeve a little more than 1/2 way with split in the center of tape and doing that half with 3 or so wraps of glass the same way as you did it the first time. After cure give it a twist and pull it off, only now you have something to hang on to and repeat the same thing on other end and you will have a nice sleeve the same length as the tube. Sounds like alot of work but it really don't take long to do.
You can't buy these sleeves, you have to make them. Tube is from a AT 6 with a 91" wing and it's 3/4", plenty strong for our plane and you wouldn't want it any bigger for fitting the staggered drilled ribs for setting dihedral.
Kevin you planning on doing the tube mounted setup I've done, ? Mine is turning out pretty darned neat, may be the only one like it in the whole world.
I got those pict's posted on my last post, hope to see you around.
You can't buy these sleeves, you have to make them. Tube is from a AT 6 with a 91" wing and it's 3/4", plenty strong for our plane and you wouldn't want it any bigger for fitting the staggered drilled ribs for setting dihedral.
Kevin you planning on doing the tube mounted setup I've done, ? Mine is turning out pretty darned neat, may be the only one like it in the whole world.
I got those pict's posted on my last post, hope to see you around.
#78
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RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Hey Leroy. To be truthful, I haven't even opened the box yet. Have to get the garage finished first, and then get my shop set up, and then back to the 4* that I started a couple of years ago. Work always gets in the way of life, also. I guess I will be going back up North in Feb. so I really don't know when anything is going to get done. I will get to the Tiger sometime though.
I'm getting really really tired of painting.
I'm getting really really tired of painting.
#79
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
"Hey", does anyone know what these motor oil containers are made of ?. Has anyone ever used one to make a cowling from and if so did you have any adhesion (CAglue) issues with it, I am. There may be a film on them that needs to be sanded off, I only used laquer thinner to wash it down and tried to glue two pieces together but they didn't stick. Could it be that I need to go someplace else and ask this question ?. Shurely one of you has tried this, making a cowl starting with a bottle of some kind and adding balsa to finish up the shape, other words, making a plug to make a mold from.
Thanks, Leroy]
Thanks, Leroy]
#80
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Oil bottles are manufactured from high density polyethylene and CA will not stick to it, in fact there is not a whole lot that will. This material is so slick that it can and is used in some applications of laying up fiberglass parts, so you could layup a fiberglass part from the oil bottle if you do not need to make many design changes to the HDPE,
Bob
Bob
#81
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: sensei
Oil bottles are manufactured from high density polyethylene and CA will not stick to it, in fact there is not a whole lot that will. This material is so slick that it can and is used in some applications of laying up fiberglass parts, so you could layup a fiberglass part from the oil bottle if you do not need to make many design changes to the HDPE,
Bob
Oil bottles are manufactured from high density polyethylene and CA will not stick to it, in fact there is not a whole lot that will. This material is so slick that it can and is used in some applications of laying up fiberglass parts, so you could layup a fiberglass part from the oil bottle if you do not need to make many design changes to the HDPE,
Bob
Hope to get some ideas from some of you.
#82
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Leroy, You might be able to use a soldering iron to tack parts of the jug together if it is only for building a plug. Just make sure you use good ventilation. Melting the plastic (I hate calling it welding!) is the only way to join that type of plastic.
#83
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
There are several ways to do this but this will be the fastest. Take a couple of dimensions from the firewall and the fuse sides locating the engines thrust backplate. Next cut yourself a small block of styrofoam large enough to glue to the firewall with a hot glue. Now remove the engine and glue block insuring the block length matches the engines backplate length from the firewall. Now you can use a small wire brush and shape your cowling plug in about an hour, smooth out any rough stuff with 80 grit and cover with mylar packing tape, next give it a couple coats of Carnuba and a coat of PVA for good measures and your ready to layup.
Bob
Bob
#84
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: sensei
There are several ways to do this but this will be the fastest. Take a couple of dimensions from the firewall and the fuse sides locating the engines thrust backplate. Next cut yourself a small block of styrofoam large enough to glue to the firewall with a hot glue. Now remove the engine and glue block insuring the block length matches the engines backplate length from the firewall. Now you can use a small wire brush and shape your cowling plug in about an hour, smooth out any rough stuff with 80 grit and cover with mylar packing tape, next give it a couple coats of Carnuba and a coat of PVA for good measures and your ready to layup.
Bob
There are several ways to do this but this will be the fastest. Take a couple of dimensions from the firewall and the fuse sides locating the engines thrust backplate. Next cut yourself a small block of styrofoam large enough to glue to the firewall with a hot glue. Now remove the engine and glue block insuring the block length matches the engines backplate length from the firewall. Now you can use a small wire brush and shape your cowling plug in about an hour, smooth out any rough stuff with 80 grit and cover with mylar packing tape, next give it a couple coats of Carnuba and a coat of PVA for good measures and your ready to layup.
Bob
#85
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: thailazer
Good one sensei. I used to use blue dock billet sytrofoam for my fuselages. It shapes up fast, and I like your idea of using the mylar packing tape. Also... The best shaping tool I found before sandpaper is a surform rasp.
ORIGINAL: sensei
There are several ways to do this but this will be the fastest. Take a couple of dimensions from the firewall and the fuse sides locating the engines thrust backplate. Next cut yourself a small block of styrofoam large enough to glue to the firewall with a hot glue. Now remove the engine and glue block insuring the block length matches the engines backplate length from the firewall. Now you can use a small wire brush and shape your cowling plug in about an hour, smooth out any rough stuff with 80 grit and cover with mylar packing tape, next give it a couple coats of Carnuba and a coat of PVA for good measures and your ready to layup.
Bob
There are several ways to do this but this will be the fastest. Take a couple of dimensions from the firewall and the fuse sides locating the engines thrust backplate. Next cut yourself a small block of styrofoam large enough to glue to the firewall with a hot glue. Now remove the engine and glue block insuring the block length matches the engines backplate length from the firewall. Now you can use a small wire brush and shape your cowling plug in about an hour, smooth out any rough stuff with 80 grit and cover with mylar packing tape, next give it a couple coats of Carnuba and a coat of PVA for good measures and your ready to layup.
Bob
Bob
#86
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Thanks guys, I think the foam core is the easy way to go and I have all the tools to do it, I'm also getting info. from other places which is helping. I'm going to build a cowl come hell or high water and will learn alot in the process. I'll let you see it when I get it done.
I thought this was going to be easy, not a PITA cowl.
I thought this was going to be easy, not a PITA cowl.
#87
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Your right, cowlings and canopies are a PITA every time, but I as shure that your cowling will turn out every bit as nice as the rest of your build.
Bob
Bob
#88
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: sensei
Your right, cowlings and canopies are a PITA every time, but I as shure that your cowling will turn out every bit as nice as the rest of your build.
Bob
Your right, cowlings and canopies are a PITA every time, but I as shure that your cowling will turn out every bit as nice as the rest of your build.
Bob
I will report results with pict's. as soon as it's done.
#89
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Building a cowling plug doesn't have to be a PITA, but it helps to do some home work before you start. I did the gas test on the blue foam and it did not work for me, the 1/8" pieces turned gooey and stuck to the larger ones which were hardly effected by the gas at all. It's true the foam will tear out useing a rasp or heavy grit sandpaper dry, I never tried it wet, I did mine dry and useing a micro fine saw. belt sander and 320 grit sand paper I was able to cut and sand the shape with good results. 5 pieces were cut out on table saw useing a plywood blade and produced no airborn particles at all, cuts were very clean and smooth. It was glued together with white glue, TightbondII, the only other you could use is epoxy, CA will eat the blue foam and not stick at all. Once it was shaped ( I had drawn the profile on it from the scale drawing I made) including off sets I thinned up some Dap light weight spackle and put it on the whole thing, just enough to fill the small scratches and dings. After it dried I sanded it with 320 very lightly. It looks good and I waiting for new Pitt's muffler ( tomorrow I hope) to see where and how big the cheeks will need to be to enclose it inside cowl. That will add a nice side profile to it.
This is what I have so far. I don't know why I try this at 5:00 PM, it never works[>:]
This is what I have so far. I don't know why I try this at 5:00 PM, it never works[>:]
#90
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner
Building a cowling plug doesn't have to be a PITA, but it helps to do some home work before you start. I did the gas test on the blue foam and it did not work for me, the 1/8'' pieces turned gooey and stuck to the larger ones which were hardly effected by the gas at all. It's true the foam will tear out useing a rasp or heavy grit sandpaper dry, I never tried it wet, I did mine dry and useing a micro fine saw. belt sander and 320 grit sand paper I was able to cut and sand the shape with good results. 5 pieces were cut out on table saw useing a plywood blade and produced no airborn particles at all, cuts were very clean and smooth. It was glued together with white glue, TightbondII, the only other you could use is epoxy, CA will eat the blue foam and not stick at all. Once it was shaped ( I had drawn the profile on it from the scale drawing I made) including off sets I thinned up some Dap light weight spackle and put it on the whole thing, just enough to fill the small scratches and dings. After it dried I sanded it with 320 very lightly. It looks good and I waiting for new Pitt's muffler ( tomorrow I hope) to see where and how big the cheeks will need to be to enclose it inside cowl. That will add a nice side profile to it.
This is what I have so far. I don't know why I try this at 5:00 PM, it never works[>:]
Building a cowling plug doesn't have to be a PITA, but it helps to do some home work before you start. I did the gas test on the blue foam and it did not work for me, the 1/8'' pieces turned gooey and stuck to the larger ones which were hardly effected by the gas at all. It's true the foam will tear out useing a rasp or heavy grit sandpaper dry, I never tried it wet, I did mine dry and useing a micro fine saw. belt sander and 320 grit sand paper I was able to cut and sand the shape with good results. 5 pieces were cut out on table saw useing a plywood blade and produced no airborn particles at all, cuts were very clean and smooth. It was glued together with white glue, TightbondII, the only other you could use is epoxy, CA will eat the blue foam and not stick at all. Once it was shaped ( I had drawn the profile on it from the scale drawing I made) including off sets I thinned up some Dap light weight spackle and put it on the whole thing, just enough to fill the small scratches and dings. After it dried I sanded it with 320 very lightly. It looks good and I waiting for new Pitt's muffler ( tomorrow I hope) to see where and how big the cheeks will need to be to enclose it inside cowl. That will add a nice side profile to it.
This is what I have so far. I don't know why I try this at 5:00 PM, it never works[>:]
You are making good progress there Leroy. Going to be quite a Tiger!
#91
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Hi Toivo, well I'm trying, glad to get over the plug making part, alot easier than I was led to believe. This stuff has it's draw backs and you need to do some studying and get others involved in order to see which way to go. As far as hot wire cutting goes I think I'll pass on that for now but it sure sounds intresting. At some point I may design and build my own plane, I have been gathering info. to do that for some time. When I get the Tiger done I may start some drawings on a sport plane, I like them as a war bird isn't in these hands. I wanted to build the P 47 1/5 size but the detail work is so intense and my right hand has some problems that is making that kind of work very painfull at times.
Hand in there, later
Hand in there, later
#92
Senior Member
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
#93
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: ARUP
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
Size is 4 1/8" wide X 5 1/4" tall and about 5" deep with ring for a 2 1/2" spinner with 2 degrees off sets rigth and down.
#94
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RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner
That was what I was going to do in the first place, I got so many bad vibes I decided to just build the plug from foam as a one off but I'm going to try and save the plug and at the same time I don't know what else it would fit. It is really a custome for this plane of mine which is a one of a kind I think. Still will try and save it one never knows.
Size is 4 1/8" wide X 5 1/4" tall and about 5" deep with ring for a 2 1/2" spinner with 2 degrees off sets rigth and down.
ORIGINAL: ARUP
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
Size is 4 1/8" wide X 5 1/4" tall and about 5" deep with ring for a 2 1/2" spinner with 2 degrees off sets rigth and down.
#96
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: kwblake
But it's still going to be a Tiger, right. Some people love cowls, and wheel pants!!! That was about as subtle as a sledge hammer, wasn't it. [img][/img]
ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner
That was what I was going to do in the first place, I got so many bad vibes I decided to just build the plug from foam as a one off but I'm going to try and save the plug and at the same time I don't know what else it would fit. It is really a custome for this plane of mine which is a one of a kind I think. Still will try and save it one never knows.
Size is 4 1/8'' wide X 5 1/4'' tall and about 5'' deep with ring for a 2 1/2'' spinner with 2 degrees off sets rigth and down.
ORIGINAL: ARUP
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
Use that plug to make a mold to pull the cowls you want. You never know, some folks out there might wish to purchase these. It's really easy to make the parts after the more difficult tasks of making the plugs and molds are done.
Size is 4 1/8'' wide X 5 1/4'' tall and about 5'' deep with ring for a 2 1/2'' spinner with 2 degrees off sets rigth and down.
#97
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RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
It was supposed to be a subtle hint to get you to do wheel pants also. Sometimes i'm the only one that gets my "attempt" at humor.
#98
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Bob Sensei if you catch up to this I have a couple of questions for you and bet you have the answer. I just epoxey'd my cowl (blue foam ) to prep for cowl glass lay up and a ton of tiny bubbles came to the surface and less so where it was heavier. I just figured it was air traped in the foam coming to the surface, would I be right on that, ?. I will wet sand it and put another coat on it and another if nessessary. Hope I'm going about it in the right way, waxing will follow and should be ready for cloth. By the way I did a test and it's not eating the foam.
I found some florists white foam in blocks, they use it to poke flowers in it, is that the stuff you used on the pictured cowl you made and sanded in water, ? I'm really learning alot doing this and as usual am glad for your help. Thank you, Leroy
I found some florists white foam in blocks, they use it to poke flowers in it, is that the stuff you used on the pictured cowl you made and sanded in water, ? I'm really learning alot doing this and as usual am glad for your help. Thank you, Leroy
#99
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner
Bob Sensei if you catch up to this I have a couple of questions for you and bet you have the answer. I just epoxey'd my cowl (blue foam ) to prep for cowl glass lay up and a ton of tiny bubbles came to the surface and less so where it was heavier. I just figured it was air traped in the foam coming to the surface, would I be right on that, ?. I will wet sand it and put another coat on it and another if nessessary. Hope I'm going about it in the right way, waxing will follow and should be ready for cloth. By the way I did a test and it's not eating the foam.
I found some florists white foam in blocks, they use it to poke flowers in it, is that the stuff you used on the pictured cowl you made and sanded in water, ? I'm really learning alot doing this and as usual am glad for your help. Thank you, Leroy
Bob Sensei if you catch up to this I have a couple of questions for you and bet you have the answer. I just epoxey'd my cowl (blue foam ) to prep for cowl glass lay up and a ton of tiny bubbles came to the surface and less so where it was heavier. I just figured it was air traped in the foam coming to the surface, would I be right on that, ?. I will wet sand it and put another coat on it and another if nessessary. Hope I'm going about it in the right way, waxing will follow and should be ready for cloth. By the way I did a test and it's not eating the foam.
I found some florists white foam in blocks, they use it to poke flowers in it, is that the stuff you used on the pictured cowl you made and sanded in water, ? I'm really learning alot doing this and as usual am glad for your help. Thank you, Leroy
If you are placing resin on your plug in ascending temperatures or adding a heat source to accelerate your cure after you have placed your resin on the plug then yes air can be forced to the surface and show up as tiny bubbles. Now if your maintaining temperature throughout your entire process then it could just be trapped air in the resin caused by the mixing action itself, it is a normal occurrence when mixing resin that all kinds of air gets pulled into the resin. There is a process for removing the air from the resin and its proper name is (Degassing), it is performed by immediately pouring the mixed resin into a clear container only filling about 1/2 to 2/3 full, a mason jar works very good for this purpose, prior to mixing resin place a vacuum quick disconnect in the lid of the jar, we keep jars ready to go all the time in the composites industry, anyway once the resin is poured place the lid on tight and add the vacuum source, you will immediately see the inside of the bottle fill with huge bubbles, now remove the source. Continue performing this action on/off with vacuum for about 3-5 minutes, you will begin to see fewer bubbles as you go until no more bubbles, the air is gone and the resin is ready for processing.
NOTE: Your vacuum source must pull a minimum 25 hg to perform this action and the closer to 29 hg the faster it will work. This process is generally done with laminating epoxy resins and we do this at times performing wet layups, however it is done mostly prior to an epoxy resin infusion process or an epoxy RTM (resin transfer molding) process. I hope this helps...
Bob
#100
Thread Starter
RE: Intrested? I'm Bashing a Tiger60
Bob that explaines alot and I have to do it again but I can't pull that kind of vacume so will have to do with what I got, time and sandpaper. I just sanded it and that stuff is as hard as a rock.If I get my cowl out of all this work it will be worth it not to mention all I am learning from it.
Thanks again, wish you were my neighbor, Leroy
Thanks again, wish you were my neighbor, Leroy