~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
#2276
Banned
Some further explanations
Explanations in blue by Zor to associate with each statement
zor,
you were talking about how the Titebond was watery,
It is much too watery, not enough viscosity for my purpose.
If you read earlier that I found thicker stuff in the bottom third of the container and spent 25 minutes mixing it up it then had enough viscosity for a small drop not to flow but that is not practical to create proper fillets. Trying to apply the glue with the container it comes with still makes dripping to the wax paper and does not do fillets of proper size.
but I see a Great Planes wood glue in one of the pics. Did you switch brands of glue because of thethin viscosity of the TB ?
Yes ... I had this Great Planes wood glue (new) and has a round tip on the container. I used it to try on the corners that are horizontal. I wanted to solidify the ribs in position. I applied it last evening and this morning it had cured without leaving much residue (much as a fillet) You see the results in the pictures but I am not happy.
With the relatively long drying time for wood glues. and the fact thay you do not use pins or clamps, how do you keep your parts in the correct position as the adhesive sets ?
You seem to think that I never use clamps or pins. The facts are that I often do when necessary. I do not if the conditions are that the pieces cannot move. Example in this case the precut notches in the ribs had to be filed for the spars to go in. I made sure I did not file that they would be loose. The spars are inserting snug in the ribs without visible gaps before applying the glue; The glue is then applied and the pieces reinserted. When doubling the spars I use clamps or heavy weights to assure contact full length.
I remember a fellow gluing the leading edge sheeting on top of the spar using a pin every inch. In his pic I counted 37 pins in a 36" long spar. That also damage the spar with many pin holes. What I do is use a flattened face of a 2 x 4 and add about 12 to 18 lbs of weight on top.
"Nicely filleted joints" can only happen if the parts are in the right position.
Yes _ _ _ of course. That is logical.
Flowing glue on top of a ill-placed part is of little use.
It is useful to ruin and mess up the build .. ..
I am now looking for some of the original glue I built my Super Skybot and my Spectra with.
It is nice glue of suitable viscosity for filleting and the container is practical to apply the fillet glue.
Anyone can glue their own way; I do it my own way for my own reasons that I often mentioned.
Thanks Tom to give me the opportunity to wish you and your loved ones a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
Zor
zor,
you were talking about how the Titebond was watery,
It is much too watery, not enough viscosity for my purpose.
If you read earlier that I found thicker stuff in the bottom third of the container and spent 25 minutes mixing it up it then had enough viscosity for a small drop not to flow but that is not practical to create proper fillets. Trying to apply the glue with the container it comes with still makes dripping to the wax paper and does not do fillets of proper size.
but I see a Great Planes wood glue in one of the pics. Did you switch brands of glue because of thethin viscosity of the TB ?
Yes ... I had this Great Planes wood glue (new) and has a round tip on the container. I used it to try on the corners that are horizontal. I wanted to solidify the ribs in position. I applied it last evening and this morning it had cured without leaving much residue (much as a fillet) You see the results in the pictures but I am not happy.
With the relatively long drying time for wood glues. and the fact thay you do not use pins or clamps, how do you keep your parts in the correct position as the adhesive sets ?
You seem to think that I never use clamps or pins. The facts are that I often do when necessary. I do not if the conditions are that the pieces cannot move. Example in this case the precut notches in the ribs had to be filed for the spars to go in. I made sure I did not file that they would be loose. The spars are inserting snug in the ribs without visible gaps before applying the glue; The glue is then applied and the pieces reinserted. When doubling the spars I use clamps or heavy weights to assure contact full length.
I remember a fellow gluing the leading edge sheeting on top of the spar using a pin every inch. In his pic I counted 37 pins in a 36" long spar. That also damage the spar with many pin holes. What I do is use a flattened face of a 2 x 4 and add about 12 to 18 lbs of weight on top.
"Nicely filleted joints" can only happen if the parts are in the right position.
Yes _ _ _ of course. That is logical.
Flowing glue on top of a ill-placed part is of little use.
It is useful to ruin and mess up the build .. ..
It is nice glue of suitable viscosity for filleting and the container is practical to apply the fillet glue.
Anyone can glue their own way; I do it my own way for my own reasons that I often mentioned.
Thanks Tom to give me the opportunity to wish you and your loved ones a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
Zor
Last edited by Zor; 12-19-2014 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Corrected wth to with
#2277
Banned
Something strange going on
I just came off a site that appears to be Titebond site.
A part of the site says that Titebond is the thickest, fast drying glue available.
I am now wondering about my source of supply (LHS) or his suppliers.
I have bought before from the same LHS a 2 oz container ($20.00) of supposedly thick CA that turned out to be absolutely like water viscosity; absolutely free flowing like water and does not fill any tiny crack.
It now appears that this new Titebond III is a similar case. Also considering that the site quote that up to 5% of water by weight or volume can be used to dilute the Titebond without affecting its strength.
I am asking again _ _ _ PLEASE _ _ _ can some kind gentleman post what is the Titlebond viscosity by comparison to well known substance . . . water?, Light syrup?, molasse?, mayonnaise?, vaseline?
Thanks again for any help. It would be much appreciated.
Zor
A part of the site says that Titebond is the thickest, fast drying glue available.
I am now wondering about my source of supply (LHS) or his suppliers.
I have bought before from the same LHS a 2 oz container ($20.00) of supposedly thick CA that turned out to be absolutely like water viscosity; absolutely free flowing like water and does not fill any tiny crack.
It now appears that this new Titebond III is a similar case. Also considering that the site quote that up to 5% of water by weight or volume can be used to dilute the Titebond without affecting its strength.
I am asking again _ _ _ PLEASE _ _ _ can some kind gentleman post what is the Titlebond viscosity by comparison to well known substance . . . water?, Light syrup?, molasse?, mayonnaise?, vaseline?
Thanks again for any help. It would be much appreciated.
Zor
Last edited by Zor; 12-19-2014 at 07:43 PM.
#2278
Banned
Hoping this is appropriate in this thread
Hello again,
This has to do with gluing the building of a Kadet Senior wing. Previous posted pictures show proof that I am in the process of building the right wiing. Right here means opposite left; not as being correct.
Four pictues below _ _ _
First pic ..... two small sheets at 90 degrees. A small wood block holds them at this relatioship with my let hand. Right hand applies a generous drop of CA on one side of the joint about 1/4" from the top right end; another generous drop on the opposite side (behind the viewed face). I hold this without any motion for two minutes looking at my watch on my left wrist. Remove the small block holding the 90 degrees and the vertical piece falls off. No gluing occured although I could see the glue spreading along the joint. The 90 degree piece (vertical) has a straight edge and the horizontal sheet is flat.
Repeat the action as above again with two generous drops of CA and hold for another two minutes (no motion at all). The vertical piece holds in position but seems weakly joined as blowing with my mouth from about 10 inches makes it bend out of 90 degrees. Let it go for another 10 minutes; it now seem glued solid.
Is the above significant for anyone ?
Picture 2 _ _ _ Then I laid a bead (strip) of Titebond on the right hand side; more than I usually apply for a fillet. After a couple of minutes I notice it become longer. The glue is flowing along the corner; not enough viscosity.
Picture 3 _ _ _ I then apply a bead of Great Planes glue on the left side of that joint .
Above was done aroung 23:30 to 23:45 EST .
I will see later today the results of the glue curing and shrinking and will post new pictures.
For now the pieces are just sitting by the work bench downstairs.
Picture 4 shows a small tool that I often use to spread along the fresh glue while scraping any further away than needed for the fillet.
CU later . . .
Zor
OOPS ... Pic 4 missing .... I will try to get it. Got it, the pic with the ruler.
This has to do with gluing the building of a Kadet Senior wing. Previous posted pictures show proof that I am in the process of building the right wiing. Right here means opposite left; not as being correct.
Four pictues below _ _ _
First pic ..... two small sheets at 90 degrees. A small wood block holds them at this relatioship with my let hand. Right hand applies a generous drop of CA on one side of the joint about 1/4" from the top right end; another generous drop on the opposite side (behind the viewed face). I hold this without any motion for two minutes looking at my watch on my left wrist. Remove the small block holding the 90 degrees and the vertical piece falls off. No gluing occured although I could see the glue spreading along the joint. The 90 degree piece (vertical) has a straight edge and the horizontal sheet is flat.
Repeat the action as above again with two generous drops of CA and hold for another two minutes (no motion at all). The vertical piece holds in position but seems weakly joined as blowing with my mouth from about 10 inches makes it bend out of 90 degrees. Let it go for another 10 minutes; it now seem glued solid.
Is the above significant for anyone ?
Picture 2 _ _ _ Then I laid a bead (strip) of Titebond on the right hand side; more than I usually apply for a fillet. After a couple of minutes I notice it become longer. The glue is flowing along the corner; not enough viscosity.
Picture 3 _ _ _ I then apply a bead of Great Planes glue on the left side of that joint .
Above was done aroung 23:30 to 23:45 EST .
I will see later today the results of the glue curing and shrinking and will post new pictures.
For now the pieces are just sitting by the work bench downstairs.
Picture 4 shows a small tool that I often use to spread along the fresh glue while scraping any further away than needed for the fillet.
CU later . . .
Zor
OOPS ... Pic 4 missing .... I will try to get it. Got it, the pic with the ruler.
Last edited by Zor; 12-19-2014 at 10:01 PM.
#2279
Banned
Reference post #2278
Hi,
A picture of what has happened in 2 3/4 to 3 hours of the glues curing having been applied between 11:30 and 11:45 EST.
This picture taken at 02:30 this morning.
Going to bed. Will post a pic about noon time today after about 12 hours of curing.
Zor
A picture of what has happened in 2 3/4 to 3 hours of the glues curing having been applied between 11:30 and 11:45 EST.
This picture taken at 02:30 this morning.
Going to bed. Will post a pic about noon time today after about 12 hours of curing.
Zor
Last edited by Zor; 12-20-2014 at 12:02 AM.
#2280
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 87
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I continue to slowly plow along building my Kadet. I got the fuel tank mounted and the holes for the fuel lines drilled. I'm using a Hangar 9, 11 ounce fuel tank. Got the servo tray installed and hooked up the Throttle and Nose Gear Nyrod. I spend a lot of time making sure that the nose gear works perfect and can be adjusted. Using a old JR Max 6 channel radio for servo installation. This is my shop radio used for building only.
#2281
I continue to slowly plow along building my Kadet. I got the fuel tank mounted and the holes for the fuel lines drilled. I'm using a Hangar 9, 11 ounce fuel tank. Got the servo tray installed and hooked up the Throttle and Nose Gear Nyrod. I spend a lot of time making sure that the nose gear works perfect and can be adjusted. Using a old JR Max 6 channel radio for servo installation. This is my shop radio used for building only.
#2282
zor. I've never done viscosity tests on my wood glue. If I feel that it's too thin, I take off the cap and stir up the bottles contents, using a length of music wire..That usually brings up the viscosity to usable levels.
When I buy glue, I pick businesses that sell it in vast quantities. That way, I'm assured of getting the freshest product available.
I've seen CA in hardware stores that is so old that it doesn't flow in the bottle. I've seen wood glue in hobby shops that is settled out, and thin on the top.
When I buy glue, I pick businesses that sell it in vast quantities. That way, I'm assured of getting the freshest product available.
I've seen CA in hardware stores that is so old that it doesn't flow in the bottle. I've seen wood glue in hobby shops that is settled out, and thin on the top.
#2283
Hey Larry!! Is your Seniorita going to have a pull-pull rudder?
#2284
Merry Christmas to All and to All a Good Flight.
Sincerely, Richard
#2285
Banned
zor. I've never done viscosity tests on my wood glue. If I feel that it's too thin, I take off the cap and stir up the bottles contents, using a length of music wire..That usually brings up the viscosity to usable levels.
When I buy glue, I pick businesses that sell it in vast quantities. That way, I'm assured of getting the freshest product available.
I've seen CA in hardware stores that is so old that it doesn't flow in the bottle. I've seen wood glue in hobby shops that is settled out, and thin on the top.
When I buy glue, I pick businesses that sell it in vast quantities. That way, I'm assured of getting the freshest product available.
I've seen CA in hardware stores that is so old that it doesn't flow in the bottle. I've seen wood glue in hobby shops that is settled out, and thin on the top.
I am not doing viscosity tests. I am not trying to measure the poise or centipoise or any other units of viscosity. I am only observing the fluidity of the glue coming out of its container. I asked the brotherhood twice now what it looks like and got no reply.It appears you have not read post #2276 in which I explained that I had done just what you say.
I do not know where you buy your glue and you did not say. I bought mine from the LHS to encourage hm.
Apparently he got some very wrong supply of glue both on CA and Titebond III.
My steering the Titebond III as I wrote in post 2276 I did get some higher viscosity but still quite watery.
Nothing like the Titebond website that says it is the thickest in the market.
I am pursuing my search for a source of SIG-MENT.
Thanks for your comments.
Zor
P.S.: It took me nearly on hour to get into the forum this morning. Sign in and it would not sign me in. IE cannot display the page. Data base error. I even rebooted my computer twice. I had no prolem with trying other sites (weather and CBC and BBC news).
End
Last edited by Zor; 12-20-2014 at 08:24 AM.
#2287
Banned
If I was able to post a video I would gladly satisfy you _ _ _ _ _ _ _
My next post wll show the curing after about 9 hours. Not a video .... fortunately .
I happened to be a fellow that DOES NOT use any of these so called social services.
I do not post my pictures on public sites else than in the RC forums.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Zor
#2288
Zor this site had something wrong, it was not just you. "Well it happens to the best of 'em" as the saying goes.
Rock n rolling now.
Well off to chow, replace a garbage disposal, KILL MORE MICE, And the list keeps going.
Sure hope airplane building makes it on the list.
Ken
Rock n rolling now.
Well off to chow, replace a garbage disposal, KILL MORE MICE, And the list keeps going.
Sure hope airplane building makes it on the list.
Ken
#2289
Banned
Glue curing results
Season's Greetings,
The two pics attached show the situation after the glue has been curing for 9 hours.
There has been quite a bit of shrinking (volume of residuals) and I will see what happened after a full day of curing.
Another pic later this evenng after 24 hours.
Zor
The two pics attached show the situation after the glue has been curing for 9 hours.
There has been quite a bit of shrinking (volume of residuals) and I will see what happened after a full day of curing.
Another pic later this evenng after 24 hours.
Zor
#2290
Banned
Zor
this site had something wrong, it was not just you. "Well it happens to the best of 'em" as the saying goes.
Rock n rolling now.
Well off to chow, replace a garbage disposal, KILL MORE MICE, And the list keeps going.
Sure hope airplane building makes it on the list.
Ken
#2291
#2292
Banned
#2295
Banned
Congratulations in becoming a participant in this forum.
Looking forward to read you a lot.
Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones.
Zor
#2297
Banned
Nice to read you
I am doing well _ _ _ thanks for asking.
Thanks for reminding me thqat I do have a 236 ml of Gorilla glue; the non-expanding type.
I Just looked at it by opening the jar cover and it seems to have a nice viscosity possibly suitable for doing filleted joint.
I did not try it yet but I found somethng else which I am illustrating in the attached picture.
Someone can say that the photo flash interrupted the glue flow down the container tip.
I say .... try to take such a photo with a product having very low viscosity and have the end hanging in midair.
This photo shows the type of product I am looking for. It works very well to create the gluing fillet I am used to for strength, increased binding area and the satisfaction of gluing better.
I will also try the Gorilla glue an see what happens.
Hoping you are enjoying the Holiday Season and here are my best wishes to you and yours for a
Merry Cristmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
Zor
#2298
Banned
cured glue
Hi . . .
Working on finding a glue suitable for filleting the glued joint while building a Kadet Senior.
Above line for who does not follow the thread or read back.
The Titebond III and Great Planes glues have now cured for 26 hours/
I think not much changes can now be expected.
I am looking at the size of any remaining solids after cure which I figure is a good indication of glued joint reinforcement beside the increased binding area.
The pictures are self explanatory for this purpose.
I now added two different glues; Gorilla and SIG-MENT. That pic is of the fresh application. We will see in 24 hours what happens with those two.
We may think that this filleting is somewhat equivalent to gluing 1/8" x 1/8" triangular stock in all corners which is not practical in a 90 degrees joint of stringers or a T joint or a doule T joint.(two stringers at 90 degrees with each other meeting a longerons).
Zor
Working on finding a glue suitable for filleting the glued joint while building a Kadet Senior.
Above line for who does not follow the thread or read back.
The Titebond III and Great Planes glues have now cured for 26 hours/
I think not much changes can now be expected.
I am looking at the size of any remaining solids after cure which I figure is a good indication of glued joint reinforcement beside the increased binding area.
The pictures are self explanatory for this purpose.
I now added two different glues; Gorilla and SIG-MENT. That pic is of the fresh application. We will see in 24 hours what happens with those two.
We may think that this filleting is somewhat equivalent to gluing 1/8" x 1/8" triangular stock in all corners which is not practical in a 90 degrees joint of stringers or a T joint or a doule T joint.(two stringers at 90 degrees with each other meeting a longerons).
Zor
Last edited by Zor; 12-20-2014 at 10:13 PM.
#2300
Hello Tom,
I am not doing viscosity tests. I am not trying to measure the poise or centipoise or any other units of viscosity. I am only observing the fluidity of the glue coming out of its container. I asked the brotherhood twice now what it looks like and got no reply.It appears you have not read post #2276 in which I explained that I had done just what you say.
I do not know where you buy your glue and you did not say. I bought mine from the LHS to encourage hm.
Apparently he got some very wrong supply of glue both on CA and Titebond III.
My steering the Titebond III as I wrote in post 2276 I did get some higher viscosity but still quite watery.
Nothing like the Titebond website that says it is the thickest in the market.
I am pursuing my search for a source of SIG-MENT.
Thanks for your comments.
Zor
End
I am not doing viscosity tests. I am not trying to measure the poise or centipoise or any other units of viscosity. I am only observing the fluidity of the glue coming out of its container. I asked the brotherhood twice now what it looks like and got no reply.It appears you have not read post #2276 in which I explained that I had done just what you say.
I do not know where you buy your glue and you did not say. I bought mine from the LHS to encourage hm.
Apparently he got some very wrong supply of glue both on CA and Titebond III.
My steering the Titebond III as I wrote in post 2276 I did get some higher viscosity but still quite watery.
Nothing like the Titebond website that says it is the thickest in the market.
I am pursuing my search for a source of SIG-MENT.
Thanks for your comments.
Zor
End
I buy my CA, online, because of the higher volume in sales over a local hobby shop.
Purchasing adhesives from the local hobby shop can be an iffy proposition. With most models being ARFs, the volume of glue sales is low.
If I do buy glue from the Hobby Shop, I check it's fluidity (in your words) before making the purchase.