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foam wing adhesive

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #1
grumpysod
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Default foam wing adhesive

What is the best adhesive to use to sheet foam wing cores with balsa? Years ago I used water based contact cement. Is this still the way to go ? I have not sheeted any cores for many years. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:41 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

I still like Sig Sorgum, ( I think that is how it is spelled) and it is a contact cement. I have also used 3M 77 spray contact cement. Good Luck, Dave
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Epoxy is what I feel is the best for sheeting wings. The advantages are: Stronger, lighter and most warp resistant.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

3M 77 spray contact cement can disolve some foams; so test first.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Lot of choices. Gorilla Glue or any of the water based wood glues. If the contact cement worked for you years ago it would still be a good choice today. Pretty much anything that doesn't harm the foam core.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

My 2 favorites are Epoxy laminating resin and polyurethane glue (gorilla). I really like to use a vacuum bag as well. Check out ACP composites for the products they offer. Really makes laminating foam cores a lot of fun.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:15 AM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Gorilla glue is great for gluing in the the wing sockets, servo rails, and spar caps or tube extenders, but laminating epoxy is best for the sheeting along with vacuum bag pressure.

Bob
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:32 AM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Huck1199. Some years ago 3M changed the solvent in 77 Spray Adhesive, and so it now WILL DISOLVE STYRENE foam. Styrene is the expanded bead open cell foam most commonly used for model airplane wings. DO NOT USE over the counter 3M 77 Adhesive on your styrene foam wings, without at least testing it on a scrap. The good news is that you can order foam safe 77 Adhesive from 3M. Even better, most craft stores like the Hobby Lobby chain, and Michaels have FOAM SAFE spray contact adhesive. Those of us who have been in this hobby for a long time have used our share of spray contact cement. We have learned that if you are lucky to have an airplane last a long time, that sometimes the glue will let go, especially when exposed to heat. A much better choice is laminating epoxy. Vaccum bagging is the preferred choice, but we layed up many a wing with magazines, books, cinder blocks, and fuel cans stacked on them. Greg
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

3M 77 spray adhesive is a temporary adhesive and should not be used for this purpose, if you are going to use a contact adhesive then 3M 30-NF is you best option.

Bob
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Bob, Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll have to throw away the two 20 plus year old 1/2A racers that are skinned with 3M 77. Greg
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:56 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

I found 3M Polystyrene foam adhesive (78) at Menards. It worked VERY well. Didn't attack the foam at all.

Jeff
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

hobbyking has a product which is made for foam $4.50 called Evotite its a super glue use it with an accelerator blow on it and in10 mis you are back flying
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive


Quote:
ORIGINAL: grimmy55

hobbyking has a product which is made for foam $4.50 called Evotite its a super glue use it with an accelerator blow on it and in10 mis you are back flying
I don't think that would work very well for laminating wing skins.

Frank

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Old 04-08-2013, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sensei

Gorilla glue is great for gluing in the the wing sockets, servo rails, and spar caps or tube extenders, but laminating epoxy is best for the sheeting along with vacuum bag pressure.

Bob

Got some wings in a bag today in fact. I usually like to leave them in the bag for at least 3 days. not only does this allow for a full cure but will remove most of the moisture from the skins reducing any chance of warps before the wings are covered.

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Old 04-08-2013, 04:08 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Quote:
ORIGINAL: GREG DOE

Bob, Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll have to throw away the two 20 plus year old 1/2A racers that are skinned with 3M 77. Greg
Anybody can use the wrong adhesive for an application as you have already demonstrated in this post. 77 softens with just a little heat just like airplanes sitting in the sun. The hardest thing about getting sound advice in these forums is trying to figure out whom one should listen too. 3M 77 has worked great for me for well over 25 years as a means on mounting sand paper to sanding boards, because it always allows me to easily remove and replace new sheets as I wear them out...

Bob
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive


Quote:
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sensei

Gorilla glue is great for gluing in the the wing sockets, servo rails, and spar caps or tube extenders, but laminating epoxy is best for the sheeting along with vacuum bag pressure.

Bob

Got some wings in a bag today in fact. I usually like to leave them in the bag for at least 3 days. not only does this allow for a full cure but will remove most of the moisture from the skins reducing any chance of warps before the wings are covered.

+1 Now this is good advice!!!

Bob
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

I have used 3m 77 and I feel it is a quick easy alternative for Some models. Not all though. The use of resin or PUR glue gives you a very solid, permanent bond allowing you to create a durable sharp trailing edge. Particularly of benefit to high performance models. Like racers and gliders.

The benefit of the vacuum bag is it allows you to use less adhesive to keep weight down. The big benefit to me is getting that great clamping pressure without having to stack all my books and tool boxes on top of my cores. Which still never worked as well as the bag.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Ok Bob, you're right and I'm wrong about 3M 77, and yes I'm the guy on the forum with BAD advice.

What I said was a lot of wings were skinned with 3M 77 (which is true) but that laminating epoxy was a much better choice.

Truth is I'm new to this hobby, and I certainly don't claim to know everything. I still have a lot to learn. I only joined AMA in 1958 (I'll do the math: 55 years). Flew in my first Nats in 1969. Won three silver 1st. place trophies at the Toledo Trade Show. Three construction articles published. Last person awarded the perpetual Testors Best Finish Trophy.(It's on desplay at the AMA Museum) Airplane in the AMA Museum. Contest Director, Nats Event Director, AMA Leader Member, Former District Associate Vice President. There is more, but nobody is interested.

As a side note 3M 77 is also good for applying the mylar on the Science Olympiad airplanes, and helicopters.
When I'm not giving bad advice on this forum I spend a lot of time coaching S.O. building events. For the last 6 years I've coached at 2 or more schools, and my students have won 1st and 2nd in most of those events. For those not familar with this years S.O. indoor Helicopter event; the students build 3 gram, coaxial, rubber powered helicopters, that are capable of almost 3 minute flights. The rotor blades are built up structures covered with mylar, and we use spray contact adhesive to attach it. It's a lot of fun working with the kids. If anyone is looking for something to do in their spare time they might consider coaching Science Olympiad. It's very rewarding. That's enough for now. It's all good, Greg
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:02 AM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Gorilla glue will expand as it dries and increase many times the contact area between glue and foam, making it in my opinion the best option, with the strongest bond. Ive seen delamination with 77 and with epoxy, and yet have to see the first one with gorilla. This doesnt mean anything, as gorilla is not widely used, so dont misunderstand me, but I have cut a foam-balsa-gorilla lamination to expose the layers, and you can see the yellow stuff up to a 1/4 inch inside the foam. Yes, epoxy is a lot stronger, but that is irrelevant when the parts to join are so much softer. In my opinion its the area that counts. Good luck, and whatever you use, clamp or vacuum bag it good
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:09 AM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

By the way, the topics that start more fights in rcu are this one, monokote love-hate and weather or not the jet guys are snobs, stupidly enough.

Ok, Greg, you piss the farthest. I do agree with you that 77 is enough for light 1/2a models, but it IS a temporary glue by design and the fact that it works doesnt mean its the best option. Even double sided tape works, for gods sake! Bob is not attacking you personally, so why get so defensive? Congratulations on your 3gram helis, Im sure epoxy and gorilla would NOT work there
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive



Go to Home Depot and pick up Glidden Gripper latex primer..... Paint on the cores and skins put them back on the beds etheir weigh them down or bag them..... This is the simplest way to do sheeting!!!!!!

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Old 04-09-2013, 04:42 AM
  #22
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

this is the stuff your looking for

http://www.industrialpolymers.com/

Ive used this recently and its very good!
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:58 AM
  #23
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive


Quote:
ORIGINAL: GREG DOE

Ok Bob, you're right and I'm wrong about 3M 77, and yes I'm the guy on the forum with BAD advice.

What I said was a lot of wings were skinned with 3M 77 (which is true) but that laminating epoxy was a much better choice.

Truth is I'm new to this hobby, and I certainly don't claim to know everything. I still have a lot to learn. I only joined AMA in 1958 (I'll do the math: 55 years). Flew in my first Nats in 1969. Won three silver 1st. place trophies at the Toledo Trade Show. Three construction articles published. Last person awarded the perpetual Testors Best Finish Trophy.(It's on desplay at the AMA Museum) Airplane in the AMA Museum. Contest Director, Nats Event Director, AMA Leader Member, Former District Associate Vice President. There is more, but nobody is interested.

As a side note 3M 77 is also good for applying the mylar on the Science Olympiad airplanes, and helicopters.
When I'm not giving bad advice on this forum I spend a lot of time coaching S.O. building events. For the last 6 years I've coached at 2 or more schools, and my students have won 1st and 2nd in most of those events. For those not familar with this years S.O. indoor Helicopter event; the students build 3 gram, coaxial, rubber powered helicopters, that are capable of almost 3 minute flights. The rotor blades are built up structures covered with mylar, and we use spray contact adhesive to attach it. It's a lot of fun working with the kids. If anyone is looking for something to do in their spare time they might consider coaching Science Olympiad. It's very rewarding. That's enough for now. It's all good, Greg
OK, now that you have finished pounding on your chest and we all know now that you are into AMA politics, all this really means is that you have a better line of B%$@%## then most of us, and again if you like that sort of thing, that and $ 1.25 will buy you a cup of coffee and nothing more really... My first post was... Read it again Greg (3M 77 spray adhesive is a temporary adhesive and should not be used for this purpose, if you are going to use a contact adhesive then 3M 30-NF is you best option). I have not stated anything that is not true, and my comment was not directed at you personally in the first place, but your next post started with Bob, so here we are. If you would take the time to pull you head out of the sand or whatever and read about the 3M 77 versus 3M 30-NF you will find that the 77 is in fact a temporary adhesive, that is what makes is great for it intended use, and the 30-NF is a permanent adhesive that heat does not have an adverse effect on. I admit, you can get away with using 3M 77 spray adhesive on the tiny stuff, even I built a couple of small pattern planes some 25 years ago using 3M 77 on the foam sheeted wings and stabs, but the overall performance left allot to be desired when the airplane was in the sun, especially with the use of dark colors because I could twist a warm wing, that is why I stopped using it back then, because it was just ok and I needed outstanding. So it was then, and is now in fact a very poor choice. It is kind of like flying a present day 200 mph turban jet with a 30 year old AM radio, you maybe get by with it but should you? Now lets take it a step further; if you step up to large scale aircraft; the use of it is down right dangerous, about 8 or even 9 years ago I witnessed a 40% IMAC bird delaminate a top wing skin in flight from the use of this temporary adhesive and the airplane was destroyed upon impact. The good thing was; it did not hit anyone... So I say again it is a poor general comment to state this is what we did 20 years ago and leave it at that because this is a public forum, and there could and most likely are unknowing souls that may take what your stating as golden and use this on a much larger platform, especially now that you have made it clearly known by telling us that your an AMA political legend as well as a leader in advanced airframe design and building methodology, bla, bla ,bla...

Bob
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:29 AM
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive

Styro prime or styo spray.... They do look promising...thanks stoneenforcer


I think glidden gripper is still cheaper but these are great products for custom painting EPO warbirds

Styroprime then Home Depot Latex paint
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:27 AM
  #25
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Default RE: foam wing adhesive


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sensei


Quote:
ORIGINAL: GREG DOE

Ok Bob, you're right and I'm wrong about 3M 77, and yes I'm the guy on the forum with BAD advice.

What I said was a lot of wings were skinned with 3M 77 (which is true) but that laminating epoxy was a much better choice.

Truth is I'm new to this hobby, and I certainly don't claim to know everything. I still have a lot to learn. I only joined AMA in 1958 (I'll do the math: 55 years). Flew in my first Nats in 1969. Won three silver 1st. place trophies at the Toledo Trade Show. Three construction articles published. Last person awarded the perpetual Testors Best Finish Trophy.(It's on desplay at the AMA Museum) Airplane in the AMA Museum. Contest Director, Nats Event Director, AMA Leader Member, Former District Associate Vice President. There is more, but nobody is interested.

As a side note 3M 77 is also good for applying the mylar on the Science Olympiad airplanes, and helicopters.
When I'm not giving bad advice on this forum I spend a lot of time coaching S.O. building events. For the last 6 years I've coached at 2 or more schools, and my students have won 1st and 2nd in most of those events. For those not familar with this years S.O. indoor Helicopter event; the students build 3 gram, coaxial, rubber powered helicopters, that are capable of almost 3 minute flights. The rotor blades are built up structures covered with mylar, and we use spray contact adhesive to attach it. It's a lot of fun working with the kids. If anyone is looking for something to do in their spare time they might consider coaching Science Olympiad. It's very rewarding. That's enough for now. It's all good, Greg
OK, now that you have finished pounding on your chest and we all know now that you are into AMA politics, all this really means is that you have a better line of B%$@%## then most of us, and again if you like that sort of thing, that and $ 1.25 will buy you a cup of coffee and nothing more really... My first post was... Read it again Greg (3M 77 spray adhesive is a temporary adhesive and should not be used for this purpose, if you are going to use a contact adhesive then 3M 30-NF is you best option). I have not stated anything that is not true, and my comment was not directed at you personally in the first place, but your next post started with Bob, so here we are. If you would take the time to pull you head out of the sand or whatever and read about the 3M 77 versus 3M 30-NF you will find that the 77 is in fact a temporary adhesive, that is what makes is great for it intended use, and the 30-NF is a permanent adhesive that heat does not have an adverse effect on. I admit, you can get away with using 3M 77 spray adhesive on the tiny stuff, even I built a couple of small pattern planes some 25 years ago using 3M 77 on the foam sheeted wings and stabs, but the overall performance left allot to be desired when the airplane was in the sun, especially with the use of dark colors because I could twist a warm wing, that is why I stopped using it back then, because it was just ok and I needed outstanding. So it was then, and is now in fact a very poor choice. It is kind of like flying a present day 200 mph turban jet with a 30 year old AM radio, you maybe get by with it but should you? Now lets take it a step further; if you step up to large scale aircraft; the use of it is down right dangerous, about 8 or even 9 years ago I witnessed a 40% IMAC bird delaminate a top wing skin in flight from the use of this temporary adhesive and the airplane was destroyed upon impact. The good thing was; it did not hit anyone... So I say again it is a poor general comment to state this is what we did 20 years ago and leave it at that because this is a public forum, and there could and most likely are unknowing souls that may take what your stating as golden and use this on a much larger platform, especially now that you have made it clearly known by telling us that your an AMA political legend as well as a leader in advanced airframe design and building methodology, bla, bla ,bla...

Bob
Somebody's feathers got ruffled.....LOL. Youse guys crack me up!!
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