Joelefty

Hey guys, relatively new to the hobby and first post here. I'm looking for a little information on a vintage sig beechcraft bonanza kit. I came across one of these kits recently for a fair price and considering buying it. Here's my question: it appears to be the A36 T tail version not the V35 v tail. Does the kit give the option for a v tail? Or would I have to do a custom conversion? I realize some may respond and say I shouldn't attempt this kit as a first build which is good advice. However, I believe my 20 years as an accomplished cabinet/furniture maker put this within my capabilities, not to mention the experience I've had rebuilding my Aerostar 40 trainer after each crash as I've been learning to fly.

This will be an important project for me, well...really for my dad. For many years his pride and joy was his full scale V tail bonanza. We have tons of memories flying in that beautiful plane. He went through a bankruptcy several years back and of course they took the bonanza. He was crushed when he handed over the keys and watched as it was taxied away. He hasn't flown since. I intend to build the kit as an exact replica of his bonanza. Same tail numbers, paint scheme, working lights retracts, the whole nine yards. He's not into RC but he's interested in my interest in rc flying and I know he would love to see me fly a scale replica of his plane. Hopefully I'll have the skills to fly it by the time it's finished.

any input will be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance. This is a great site!

nevster

Hi Joelefty
the sign bonanzas are a great kit - if you are familiar with sheeting foam wings and using ABS you will be fine. Whilst I had the T-tail it would be very easy to convert it to a V-tail as the tailplane is just solid balsa wood which you have to carve/sand to an airfoil shape. I would create a "v" dihedral brace and slightly alter the elevator linkages. The abs turtle deck would then need trimming to accomodate the V-tail. A guy named TexasAirBoss did a stunning job on his bonanza - worth looking at his site.
Whilst building is quite straight forward I wouldn't recommend flying it until you get some fast models under your belt. The bonanza flies like a pattern plan and you need to be confident with your landings. It isn't bad mannered - just fast !
Good luck - Regards Nev

foodstick

Yes I always heard this kit builds heavy and flies FAST. It would make a sweet electric.

Joelefty

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll be honest though, I had to google turtle deck. I didn't realize the tail feathers need to be hand shaped, that gets me even more excited about the build. I do quite a bit of hand shaping in my furniture work. Decision made, I'm going to pick up that kit this week.

In researching bonanza kits and how they fly, the common theme was it was a heavy plane and landed fast. Scale models seem to really capture most of the characteristics of the real thing. When my dad started flying his, he said landing whith more throttle was the toughest thing transitioning into that plane.

it will be a while before I have the skills to fly that plane, and I'm ok with that. I'm just now starting to stick my landings. I figure there will be 2 or 3 planes in my hangar before I fly the bonanza. In fact I'm thinking of making a offer for a package deal on the bonanza and a used t-34 mentor with an os46 and retracts.

Ive considered going the electric route, but I think it's going to be a 4 stroke. Simply because it will sound awsome!

thanks again for the replies guys, maybe when I start the build I'll start a thread to follow its progression. Any other hints tips and advise you can offer I'd love to hear them or if anyone else has something to add I'm all ears.

Tony Hallo

I had one many years ago, not sure where you heard it flys fast but I would have to argue here. Mine had Carl Goldberg retracts and was a fun plane to fly. Powered by a .61 Supertiger. The muffler provided to be a challenge, I think I used a Tatone universal.

ma_mulcahy

As an option, you might also consider looking for a Top Flite Bonanza kit on ebay or some other web site. You can build that kit either as a v tail or conventional tail. It's a little larger at around an 80" wingspan, which will make a nice canvas for scale details. There is an off the shelf set of retracts available from Robart. As with all kits, you can take steps to reduce the weight in the build.

Good luck with your project!

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

When the kit was popular back in the 70's, a local friend flew one of these in pattern competition. It actually flew quite well and did a respectable job. It certainly looked better than the usual Kaos or other planes popular at the time. I flew it a few times and didn't find it much different to fly than any normal sport plane from the period.

The TopFlite kit has been mentioned. This is quite a bit larger than the SIG Bonanza and probably flies easier just because of its size. Also a newer kit design. I know you're set on the "V" tail version, but just like the full scale, the straight tail will always fly better.

foodstick

If you wanted to cut some weight in this plane, building up the tail with sticks would save a bunch of weight. I actually have one of these kits tucked away. Someone bought it 20 some years ago opened the box, butchered the elevator pieces and returned it to the hobby shop in fear ! hahahah

No big loss though the balsa supplied in my kit for the tail surfaces is heavy enough to make a kitchen cutting board out of.. I will just use them for nose pieces on a scratch cowl build or something. Someday I willeither build this, or a bigger one.. I love Bonanzas

Joelefty

In doing my homework in perpetration for this build, the v tail being a little squirley is a common comment, but almost always followed up with what a great flier it is. It seems they are very popular and somewhat hard to find plane (sig / topflight versions).

Foodstick...in the sig kit, the vertical and horizontal stabilizers are to be shaped out of a solid block of balsa? A skill I am very good at but yeah, I can see how that adds weight to the tail. Is the whole plane sheeted in balsa or a covering fabric? I haven't had a chance to go pick up the kit yet, hopefully by the end of the week.

Just curious, how long would you think it would take a skilled craftsman like myself who's never built a kit to complete the a plane like this?

foodstick

I can't honestly give you a estimate on the time.. mine is 20 years old and untouched

The elevators and rudder are both solid chunks of wood unless I have forgotten I am not sure on the fin and stab, but I bet they are also blocks or thick sheet wood. The wood was very heavy in mine. Maybe you have some better wood. Personally I wish this kit came with a built up wing, I have never really liked foam ones, they can be built fast and strong... but I just haven't built enough of them to be converted yet.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

FYI, two very famous RCer's (now deceased) were finish carpenters / cabinet makers. You're in good company there! While those work skills can transfer very well to modeling, like many skills, modeling requires some experience to hone ones skills. You should transition very quickly. I'd be tempted to do a simpler model or two before tackling the Bonanza though. ie: something to practice on first.

Both the SIG and Top Flite kits have similar construction. The SIG kit has a balsa sheeted foam wing, basic box sheet balsa fuselage and the previously mentioned sheet balsa tail surfaces. The cowl and rounded fuselage top are molded ABS plastic. The Top Flite kit is similar except for the wing and tail which both feature balsa sheeting over a built up structure. Finishing techniques to keep weight down would be important on both planes. Robart use to make a very nice retract for the TF Bonanza but it is expensive. Not sure if these are still available. Many smaller retracts could be fit to the SIG version with the Carl Goldberg and Robarts both being popular when the kit was new.

If I had to choose between these two kits, the TF version would win hands down due to its larger size and more modern design. As previously mentioned, the plans include both the "V" and conventional tail.

acdii

You mentioned a T-34, that would make a good transition plane from a trainer to something hotter. They fly well and keep you on your toes when it comes to take offs and landings, but with flaps they come in nicely. As for kits, a good kit to get you into building would be the SIG Anniversary Cub. I am working on one now, and it very scale like, good kit to learn the building process with before tackling the older kit. It would also make a good intermediate plane as it isnt as forgiving as a trainer, but not squirrely like the Bonanza could be, better than the T-34 can be. Reason I recomend it, it will give you experience on mounting the engine, tanks, radio gear, pushrods, construction sequences, and if you screw something up, you can get replacement pieces for it, where you screw up something on the old SIG kit, not gonna happen.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Good advice acdii but if the OP is set on building a Bonanza that is mostly sheeted construction with no fabric over open structure, he might consider something like the SIG Kavalier. It is a combination of open structure and sheet wood and as you suggest, he could gain construction skills with this plane. Certainly nothing wrong with the CUB though!

Leroy Gardner

Joelefty I say go for it. I am a cabinet and furniture builder as a hobby for most of my life. When I got into the hobby my first build was an Eagle 11 Goldberg kit 9 yrs. ago and still have it, my second plane was a 1/5 scale TF gold kit of the mighty P-51 mustang. Every one in the club said I had no business trying to build this plane because I never had the experience to do it. Well I shut alot of mouths when they saw it 5 yrs. later at the airport air show. I haven't flown it yet but next spring it's going air borne. So dont let anyone tell you you need to get some experience before you tackle the Bonanza, I think you will have no problem.

Here is what this old man who didn't have enough experience to build built.

Leroy

Joelefty

Very nice Leroy! The guys in my club are encouraging to do the build, with the exception of a few. Actually, at first they were all saying it was way over my head, until I showed them pictures of what I do for a living. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I build complicated stuff as well as design it too. I'm humble in the fact that building a plane in a new and different skill that I've never done, but I'm pretty confident that with patience attention to detail and asking questions when I don't have answers I'll succeed. As of now I only lack confidence in my ability to fly the thing, but luckily I've got lots of patience and the will to learn. I don't see myself building too many kits simply because I don't have the time. I'm set on this one for my dad, and the vintage kit makes it more special in my opinion. Headed out this afternoon to pick up the kit along with the T 34. After another few dozen or so touch and goes I'll be flying that t 34

foodstick

I think many people build great from the beginning, Some people don't realize why things need to be done certain ways at first..A good building book teaches those things with a quality kit. its funny you mention your Mustang. My second plane was a Midwest 40 Mustang. I have always been a model builder, and a painter.. the plane looked amazing. It was not the level of finish you have shown above.. but it was very nice.
Now I was self taught and was finally bringing home my Sig Seniorita from the local park with no damage .. so I got up the nerve and took out my Mustang, wow was I in for a surprise!! I was barely able to keep it upright with the over sensitive ailerons, and I finally flew low across the sun and was blinded, I went the wrong way on the ailerons and it was all over. hahahah
Thats what learning on your own is like though ! you gotta love to build !

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Joelefty, I don't believe anyone has suggested that you don't have the skills to build the Bonanza. Just the opposite actually! What is suggested is that with each new building experience, you gain new skills and insights into different methods for construction, finishing, etc. A model airplane is a unique creation. Virtually every step in the construction and finishing process requires that decisions be made. For example .... how about glues? There are dozens of different glues for various purposes and materials. How about hinging the control surfaces? Again there are many different hinges that can be used. These are just two small examples. Even brand selection for similar products is decision. As a person builds more airplanes, he develops preferences that guide him through the various building steps and processes. I'm sure you face this same process in your trade. I bet too you do many things different than your competition, just because you do things the way you prefer to do them and that's what sets you apart from the herd. The same applies to model building.

Wishing you great success with your build! I look forward to hearing more about your project.

acdii

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that either, just that you are getting a unique kit that will be hard if not impossible to find replacement pieces for. This is why I suggested starting with something you can get today, so if for some reason you glue part C to part Q and need new parts, you can get them.

I have a few builds under my belt now, and still make silly mistakes. While building my Cub, I picked up the two door pieces where I laid them down, not realizing I laid them down backwards, and proceeded to glue them together. When I went to fit the door, realized my mistake. Luckily for me, this was easy to correct as I just sliced the top part off and glued it back on the way it was supposed to be.

bchapman

I just picked up one of the Sig Bonanza kits on E-Bay a few weeks ago. I always remember seeing them when I was a kid, but couldn't afford one, nor could I have built it (at least very well) either.

The kit I bought actually came with two instruction manuals. It seems a lot of you have questions, so I thought I would try and scan that manual and try and post some of it here. The file size would probably be too big to do it all in one file, but maybe a zip file may do the trick. Let me know if there is any interest.

After reading through the manual the other night, I would say that it is a challenging build, at least by my standards. I've built a Top Flight T-34, which is pretty much a Bonanza in most respects, but this Sig kit looks considerably more difficult.

There is a lot of carving, sanding and shaping to be done. It looks like a really fun build, but definitely not a good first kit in my opinion.

By the way, I'd be interested in how much you paid for your kit. After a small bidding war, mine ended up costing me $202.50!

Brian

acdii

$202 is not a bad price for a kit considering that is about where new kit prices are today. My Cub kit cost over $200, the P-51 and Corsair kits are up near $200, so I would say you got a fair price. At least you weren't bidding on a Pica kit, some of those are twice to three times what you paid for the SIG.

bchapman

I've seen how much those Pica kits go for, you're right about that. Funny thing is, I remember seeing those all the time in the hobby shop, but never got around to picking one up.

I didn't really think the price was that bad, but you're analogy is a good one. Maybe I got an even better deal when you think about it. The kit was literally like opening up a time capsule. Everything was neatly packed, just like it came from Sig. It brought back a lot of good memories. Funny how an old box of wood can do that...

drube

Not trying to hijack your thread Joe. How well does the Top Flite Bonanza kit fly? What size engine does it require? I would love to have one!

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

drube, while I don't own a TF Bonanza, a good friend has one that I flew a number of times. Overall it seems to fly quite well. It was originally built around a Saito 150 but I never thought that was a good match for that airframe. Later on, he changed the engine to an OS 160 2 stroke and that much improved the performance. With the availability of so many small gas engines today, if it were mine, I'd probably put one of the 30 sized powerplants in it. Prop clearance is at a premium though so a 3 blade prop would probably be required on a gasser.

drube

That was my thoughts also about putting a 30cc gasser in it. Thanks for the info. I'll be watching ebay!

Mike06659

Troybuilt Models has some very nice Bonanza ARF's if your interested. You probably can't build one for this price. Just add your scale touches to mirror your Dads. I understand if you like to build to.
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/categ...anes-ARFs.html
A nice 30cc gasser will allow you to fly all day long! Fuel and go!
Mike