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Old 09-16-2016, 01:56 PM
  #1851  
RICKSTUBBZ
 
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
............. For that matter you see changes in humidity affect the wood and plans in a kit, how many times have you seen a recommendation to give a new kit time to adapter to area where you build before starting? SIG would warn you paper plans can be affected in their kit manuals and I'm sure others did as well.

FI OKC--- you just hit the head of the nail with that one!
With out a doubt the wood of an air frame will move much more than the control rods. Albeit humidity and not temp. But as we know with temp changes there are almost always humidity changes.

A few years back, I toted several of my planes from the south east Texas area up and out to Las Vegas. When I left Texas all of the covering on those planes was tight! When I pulled them out of the "crossover" in Vegas i was all but embarrassed for my friends to see the things. They were more more saggy than grandma's chin.... Now while in Vegas, I was too lazy to drag out the iron and heat gun. Anyway, long story short - by the time I unloaded them back in Texas the skin was tight......That my friend, was all wood shrink in the dry air, and swell by the time I got them back here.
Old 09-16-2016, 02:33 PM
  #1852  
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Originally Posted by RICKSTUBBZ
FI OKC--- you just hit the head of the nail with that one!
With out a doubt the wood of an air frame will move much more than the control rods. Albeit humidity and not temp. But as we know with temp changes there are almost always humidity changes.

A few years back, I toted several of my planes from the south east Texas area up and out to Las Vegas. When I left Texas all of the covering on those planes was tight! When I pulled them out of the "crossover" in Vegas i was all but embarrassed for my friends to see the things. They were more more saggy than grandma's chin.... Now while in Vegas, I was too lazy to drag out the iron and heat gun. Anyway, long story short - by the time I unloaded them back in Texas the skin was tight......That my friend, was all wood shrink in the dry air, and swell by the time I got them back here.
The same thing happens when you bring your airframes indoor in the winter when you live in a climate that is humid in the summer & cold in the winter.

Heating the air in the house drops the humidity & shrinks the wood. I've seen the exact opposite when a wood gun stock is finished indoors in the winter. As summer comes along the wood will swell and the wood that you so carefully sanded flush with the metal will be standing proud by several as much as 1/32 of an inch.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-16-2016 at 02:39 PM.
Old 09-16-2016, 03:30 PM
  #1853  
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I'm not an engineer, just play one on the internet, but a 50° change will make a 1/16" difference with the plastic and about .001 with steel on a 30" run.
Old 09-17-2016, 03:20 AM
  #1854  
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Hmmm

I use nyrods almost exclusively. I don't notice much, if any, trim changes do to varying temperature.
Old 09-17-2016, 06:51 AM
  #1855  
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+1 Tom, I definitely notice planes slightly out of trim and covering wrinkled and such but not where a rudder or elevator is noticeably off do to a plastic rod being a 1/16" longer. I think humidity is the real culprit which shouldn't effect lengths as much as it does to the wood as others have mentioned.

acdii, Have you entertained the thought of going electric rather than the DA 100?
Old 09-17-2016, 10:40 AM
  #1856  
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Originally Posted by Pork Chop
acdii, Have you entertained the thought of going electric rather than the DA 100?
That would be like kissing a pretty girl through a screen door.
Old 09-17-2016, 10:52 AM
  #1857  
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LOL yeah I know I know, a couple of years ago I couldn't figure out the whole draw towards the electric thing but once I owned an electric plane of my own I was a convert. I do miss the smell and sound but not the cleanup and such. It caters to my busy schedule and getting older I guess! I have a half dozen planes still that I should sell or convert.
Old 09-17-2016, 02:35 PM
  #1858  
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Originally Posted by Pork Chop
LOL yeah I know I know, a couple of years ago I couldn't figure out the whole draw towards the electric thing but once I owned an electric plane of my own I was a convert. I do miss the smell and sound but not the cleanup and such. It caters to my busy schedule and getting older I guess! I have a half dozen planes still that I should sell or convert.
A gas engine of even a glow ignition engine converted to CDI/methanol does a whole lot towards reducing the mess especuially if a little thought is employed on how the muffler exits the cowl.

As far as time goes? I have one electric aircraft and I spend a heck of a lot more time farting around with batteries for a few minutes flight than I would cleaning up the airframe (while I do a post flight inspection) and filling the tank with fuel.

For the cost of batteries that would be needed for an hours time spent flying the large aircraft I prefer, the cost of batteries will buy a lot of fuel.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-18-2016 at 04:06 AM.
Old 09-17-2016, 03:00 PM
  #1859  
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Sr.
That is what i have been trying say for a long time
well said
Old 09-17-2016, 05:07 PM
  #1860  
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Ditto on the batteries. I have a Twin Otter with Power 25 motors, and 8000 mah 3S packs. That gives me 10 minutes of flight for 90 minutes of charge time. The 2 packs costs me over $200. I have 5 3000 mah 3s packs, they give me enough power to take off, fly 4 patterns and land, and that is about it. I started out flying electric with a T-34 Eflite, and an Apprentice, then built my LT-40 with an OS-52 and never considered electric again. The Twin Otter was given to me already built, and would take some major work to convert to fuel. I do have two new Nacelles and Cowls for it if I wanted to, but would be a PITA to remove the existing ones. The plane isn't interesting enough for me to want to spend the time needed to convert to fuel.


I checked into electric motor and controller and it would be close to $800 for them, plus another $300 or more for two 12s batteries to give enough flight time. I would get one flight and then wait 3-4 hours for the batteries to recharge. I can put that Saito R3 on for what it would cost for the motor, controller and 2 batteries.

Since I already have the DA 100, and the servos, and everything else needed, I wouldn't even think about changing at this point.
Old 09-18-2016, 04:12 AM
  #1861  
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I think the whole "electric" thing is due to the need by some for "instant gratification"..

There is not the same "learning curve" involved with setting up & tuning an ICE. Just spend lots of $$$$ for batteries, chargers, etc, then "plug & play". As long as you don't burn your aircraft or worse, your house, down charging your batteries.
Old 09-18-2016, 05:35 AM
  #1862  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
I think the whole "electric" thing is due to the need by some for "instant gratification"..

There is not the same "learning curve" involved with setting up & tuning an ICE. Just spend lots of $$$$ for batteries, chargers, etc, then "plug & play". As long as you don't burn your aircraft or worse, your house, down charging your batteries.
So, just as there is a learning curve for fuel planes, there is a more complicated learning curve for electric, if you DON'T want to burn down your plane or house. You are right in saying that in today's generation, instant gratification is the norm. Don't get me wrong, I love my gassers, I'm not a tree hugger, but there is a place for electric flight. Some people in this hobby have no choice because of noise restrictions and such. So, lets not be too harsh on the electric flyers. They are after all, our brothers in this fabulous hobby of ours. When I go to the field, I take both. When flying my glider, it is possible to stay up for as long as forty-five minutes with no problems with motor control. Let me see a gasser do that. BTW, if it takes three to four hours to charge a battery, there is insufficient power output from the charger, hence the learning curve. Just my two pesos. I thoroughly enjoy the banter on this thread and hope I have not offended anyone.
Old 09-18-2016, 07:13 AM
  #1863  
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Oh I could fast charge the 3S8000 Mah packs, but as you said, learning curve, and what I learned is if you want your batteries to last, dont amp them up with fast charging. Learned that lesson with my first pair of 3s packs, they don't have much life left in them, what used to get me 10 minutes, now gets me 6 minutes or less, which is why I went to the 8000 mah packs for the TO. The 8000 mah packs can be charged at 8 amps, I charge at 2 instead. The Gen Ace packs I have can be charged at 4, and I did that, and they eventually started losing capacity by doing so, then switched back to 1.5 amps on those and they stabilized, though not quite near what they use to be. Fast charging also heats them up more, and if you fast charge, then fly and pull heavy amps, eventually they will start to puff and you might as well throw them out then, as they will soon brick. I just looked at my stash and forgot I bought a pair of 6500 mah packs for the TO for back to back flights, and never put the connectors on them. I will need to weigh the packs and add some lead to them to equal what the 8000 mah packs weigh so the plane balances properly otherwise it will be tail heavy. They sit in the nacelles forward of CG.

What I do like about the TO, it sounds realistic as it flies by under 3/4 to WOT since the real version is turbine powered, and whines as it goes by I haven't finished repairs on it yet from when I pancaked it on landing at SIG June 2015. Have the nose gear to finish and get another RX battery for it, then it can be flown again.
Old 09-18-2016, 10:24 AM
  #1864  
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Well the one good thing about electric is so many people are changeing to that type of power, It gives us glow fuel guys opportunities to buy engines at a discounted price. Cool.
So now my saito stock has swelled nicely along with a few other glow engines that I have always wanted.
And yes I even have one electric that I fly for those so called quiet places.
Old 09-18-2016, 10:28 AM
  #1865  
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O. Wait I lied I burried that at sig this year
Old 09-18-2016, 01:50 PM
  #1866  
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Originally Posted by c-crunch
O. Wait I lied I burried that at sig this year
I would laugh, but I had two smashes today, so I feel your pain.

The elevator servo on my Something Extra failed in the full up position, thankfully at low rates. I pulled into a loop and it kept looping when I released the stick, then I realized I had no pitch control at all, so I chopped throttle and thought through everything to figure out how best to save it when it crashes, and was able to slowly get it lower and lower and closer to me, all the while it is doing loops, then I finally cut the engine off and then harriered it down to the ground. Well sort of since I had no power and if I did, no way to control speed, and finally got it down right in front of me and managed to save it with minimal damage, only tore the gear out, and broke one wheel pant. Easy fix, would have done it if I had some 30 minute epoxy with me, I had a spare servo.

I maidened my Ultimate 10 Dash 300 with a gemini 120 twin on it, and it flew nicely, though it needs the throttle linkage redone, I had very little throttle control, idle all the way to half stick, then I had throttle, but not much mid range, but was able to fly it around and made a decent landing.

My third plane up was my P-47 thunderbolt. It flew beautiful, but the midrange in the engine was spotty and a few times I thought it quit, only to hear to spool up again. I had it lined up for a decent landing approach, but the landing gear did not look right to me, so sped up and flew by to verify they were all the way down, they were, the bombs on the wings made it look like they were at an angle, optical illusion. Second approach looked OK, but not being used to the planes size it was not where I thought it was, it was further out and where I thought it had cleared the building, it was right in line with it and I smacked the right wing on the roof and sent it to the ground. I had a few things line up for a perfect screw up, sweat in my left eye, making it tear, obstacles to the right of the plane, a large building to the left of it, and a plane whose size I am not used to. The wind was SW so the only approach I could make is between this building and some trees, and there is this damned semi trailer at the end of the field with tools on it, and that is the obstacle that leads up to having problems landing as I am paranoid of it.

So I now have only 3 flyable planes, the 4*120 which I rarely fly, I always seem to have some issue with it, my Cub, which guzzles fuel, and my P-51, which also guzzles fuel and I am not fully comfortable flying it. Funny thing is I was very comfortable flying the P-47, I just misjudged the distance.
Old 09-18-2016, 04:26 PM
  #1867  
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I did that on take off with my first t clips were i was flying hadn't been mowed , so I tried to hand launch rite in to the ramp slsh tail gate of the lown mower trailer.
Dont ask way was i so close to the trailer when I hand launched my plane.
Old 09-18-2016, 08:03 PM
  #1868  
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Geez guys, all y'all are making me want to take mine back out and crash one (or more, maybe) to stay in the club. I had 5 planes out today, all came home, oily but intact. 1.5 gal glow fuel gone, tons of fun.

Sorry 'bout dat.
Old 09-19-2016, 12:55 AM
  #1869  
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Skylark
i have been flying a little bit and i have crashed a few. When i go out I fly tell I crash from fatigue or I fly to low to slow and down wind trying to get planes to do things there not supposed to.
With that said I have almost as much fun on a bad day as i do bringing home all my planes.
Case in point this year at SIG i had the most fun flying that have had in a long time it was awesome. But i took 10 planes and came home with 5 intact. But i stil had a great time.
Old 09-19-2016, 05:12 AM
  #1870  
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I fly all types, but my opinion is:
If it's real little electric is the only way to go.
20 to 60 size either nitro or electric is fine, electrics are winning me over here though.
60 to 120 size nitro wins with me.
120 and up gas is the only way to go.
Down on the tiny side if you don't want to do electrics go diesels they are way cool. I have a .033 that will idle for 15 minutes then go full power without missing a beat, try that with any other ICE, but they do stink.
Old 09-19-2016, 05:45 AM
  #1871  
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Speaking of weird crashes I had a SIG Rascal C taken out by a spooked duck on landing approach. The crash knocked the gear out and ruined a wheel pant but all in all not a lot of damage.

Maybe we can find a self-help group for Pork Chop and get him in therapy? Or pull a Clockwork Orange and force him to watch R/C videos and every time an electric comes on the screen we shock the %$#@ out of him?
Old 09-19-2016, 06:04 AM
  #1872  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Speaking of weird crashes I had a SIG Rascal C taken out by a spooked duck on landing approach. The crash knocked the gear out and ruined a wheel pant but all in all not a lot of damage.

Maybe we can find a self-help group for Pork Chop and get him in therapy? Or pull a Clockwork Orange and force him to watch R/C videos and every time an electric comes on the screen we shock the %$#@ out of him?
How was the duck afterwards? Maybe a new business/pleasure venture? Fly RC around golf courses to spook and drive off the Canada geese that rip up the turf and muck up the greens and fairways with their leavings. Dogs and falcons are used now, I hear.

How about one of those anti-bark dog collars they sell. Set one up tuned to turn on to electric motor noise. I would not use one on a dog however.
Old 09-19-2016, 06:21 AM
  #1873  
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I was due to crash this year. Went 2 years without any major incidents, flew at SIG and not one plane came back damaged, and it was WINDY there. Just thankful I was able to bring the SSE down with very little damage. Could have been much worse, had I had full rates, it would have been a goner.
Old 09-19-2016, 06:37 AM
  #1874  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
Maybe a new business/pleasure venture? Fly RC around golf courses to spook and drive off the Canada geese that rip up the turf and muck up the greens and fairways with their leavings. Dogs and falcons are used now, I hear.
.
I was in the LHS a couple years ago and met a guy that made a business out of scaring Canadian Geese. You aren't allow to hurt them, so he had BIG gas RC 4 wheelers that chased them, and a BIG gas boat that he chased the on the river and in ponds with. He said they learn quickly, he would park his truck, start to get the equipment out, and the geese would leave.
Old 09-19-2016, 09:02 AM
  #1875  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
How was the duck afterwards? Maybe a new business/pleasure venture? Fly RC around golf courses to spook and drive off the Canada geese that rip up the turf and muck up the greens and fairways with their leavings. Dogs and falcons are used now, I hear.

How about one of those anti-bark dog collars they sell. Set one up tuned to turn on to electric motor noise. I would not use one on a dog however.
Duck was unharmed, She was a young Mallard, I think she was nesting in the area.

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