Melchizedek

David, Thanks.
Yes. Homer is like someone's dog that is so ugly it's cute . So stupid he finds smart on accident.

Frazer,

Welcome, so glad you are following.

At this point I don't I have a clue what the overall weight will be. The kit if built to specs says 20 lbs. I have resigned myself to the idea that it's going to be on the plump side.
Not only am I adding lots of features but many of them are behind CG. So the cringe factor will be ballast.
I'm not to concerned about the weight. The air foil is huge and this plane is going to be an easy flyer, that's one of the major reason I picked the SW.
Sometime in the next day or two I will weigh her to see where It's at. Stay tuned I will post the results.
The engine will be a DLE 55RA. This is 15cc over what Sig specs. A plump girl can always use a big horse

Hey Leroy,
Thank you for the kind words. Hope there will be lots of new builds this build season.

Yes, building big is vey nice. Lots of room for options. If just wasn't so dog gone costly to do so.
I expect the details on your Cub will be top notch. Can't wait for you to begin. Detail it up my friend

Vincent,

Yes, I like that hatch too!!! I think I might be pushing on it every time I walk up to it
I'll tell you though, it gave me fits to get it right. I even did a mock up and I still did it twice.

Did the mock up to get the geometry of the hinges. Check
Peruse RCU at break time. Check
See Mike's Cessna hatch opening with rounded corners. Check
Change my square corners to round one's. Check
By chance, I spot CA the hinges on hatch to check. NOT CHECK

On the hinge edge the rounded lower corners of door jamb do not allow the bottom edge of door to slip in to door opening.
I almost permanently glued the hinges to this configuration. (not unfixable but lots and lots of grief) .
So I had to go find the off fall of the door and make the lower round corners square. Then square the lower corners of jamb.
If you look at a close up of the door you will see the patches in the lower corners.

But after that trial had passed, it was hatch heaven.

Kevin

VincentJ

Check!

Melchizedek

Made me grin Vince.

Well Frazer this is for you and anyone else who was curious. Truth be told it was for me, you got me real curious.

Got the old plump meter out to check the damage. Did not add the tenths of oz

Fuse 5lbs 4 oz



Betty and house 2 lbs 2oz



Center wing 2lbs 11 oz



Left/Right wing with ailerons 4 lbs 13 oz



Engine, ign, muff, kill, battery, cowl 4 lbs 8 oz




Tail feathers 12 ozs




Wheels with tail bracket hdwr and axle 11 ozs



Wheel pants with main gear wires 13 ozs




Rough tabulation 21 lbs 9 ozs.

This does not include the following:

Spinner
Wing fillet
left right tail cone blocks ( book end vert stab)
Glassing fuse and wing panels
Solortex covering and paint
Top Notch engine kit

If I had to guess around 25 lbs mark when complete.

Things in my favor imho :

Larger engine and top notch kit will reduce any nose ballast.

Some of the more experienced guys might have a better guess on the final weight. Feel free to chime in all you veterans .

Kevin

fazer

Kevin,
I was curious with all the extras you are adding.

I have a Spacewalker which came in about 23lbs with no frills and built according to plans . ( Zenoah G38 for power and covered with Koverall / dope)
My feeling is it is under powered. It won't loop unless you nose dive it first. Yes I know it is a scale plane and it fly's slow but I would have liked for it performed with a little
more authority. All I can say is thank goodness for the very thick airfoil. I do enjoy flying it so much I have 3 Sig Spacewalkers kits be built someday but I will use a bigger engine.
I think you will need every bit of the 55cc to fly yours.

Mario

VincentJ

OK, I'll take a guess Kevin, around 26 pounds is my guess... That 55 is a powerhouse, while it won't be a rocket ship, it should be fine. Kevin, check out how I glassed the fuse on my Edge, it may be of some value to you to help keep the weight down. Betty may have to go on a diet! LOL

Melchizedek

Mario,

Glad to have some sort of base line. "23 lbs with no frills" . Now I don't feel so bad. Thought Betty was going to get a CAR with wings

On a side. Last night after reading your post, I went looking for 50 cc planes to check out what kind of weights were out there. All the ones under 20 lbs (usually 16 ish) were of the 3D variety
and in the 86" ish span. Well that made sense. 2 to 1 ish thrust ratio.

Then I went looking for scale 50cc planes. They all seemed to be in the very low 20 lbs ish range. Then I came across a site that had truth in advertising in the small print.
This is a loose translation cause I am going by my crappy memory:
" Manufacturers get these numbers by using the smallest engine and the smallest battery possible. This is without retracts, with out cockpits or any sort of detailing."
It could of said, these numbers are approved by the Government Accounting Office.

Having said that. At this point I build heavy. My trainer was heavy. All the experienced guys that picked it up, raised there eyebrows or said so. It did fly fine.
This plane will give me real world experience on where to amend my building ways on the next one.
I must confess though. There is this little red suited guy on my shoulder that keeps whispering " EPOXY, FIBERGLASS, MAPLE," LOL

Thanks for your estimate Vince. And for your appraisal of the 55. YIPPIE now I can add retracts !!! Just kidding.

I will go back and check out your glassing methods . I'm getting the feeling I need to stay as close as possible to 25 lbs.
Thanks,

Kevin

acerc

I am not going to give numbers (because I can't remember them) but I will say everyone of my builds came out ridiculously heavy according to the mfg and/or others. But I have not built one yet that does not fly great and appropriate in maneuvers as to what it is. I can say (from memory) my little Pitts called for 12-16lbs and it came out at 22lbs and flies superb. Now the big Pitts is going the same as for being over weight by the specs, it calls for 33lbs and I passed that before covering. I think it will be between 45-50lbs and have no doubt it will fly great. We must, as you stated, keep in mind that the mfg's weight is as light as they could possibly build or assemble it. And I believe they do this as that is where the vast majority of their business goes, to the builder following their rec's. Most fliers don't realize or want a plane that flies scale but rather one that will tear up the sky, whether that was it's original intent or not.

Melchizedek

Thanks Robert. Your appraisal feels very agreeable to me. I respect your experience to the highest degree.
Thank you also for sharing your weight comparison to mfg and your actual build weight. That gets my head back in the " all is well mode".
As for having a plane that tears up the sky!!! Man, I'm not ready for that. I'd be tearing up the ground. Done that one already.

Well decided to move to the back of the bus. Been kind of himhawing about this part. Lots of convergence at the tail of the plane.
The tail feathers get glued down (before or after covering). Conical gussets get glued down (before or after). Tail post gets blended with fuse (before or after).
The rub is, I would like all this seamless when complete.

So I decided to take it step by step and appraise after every step. Kinda like a DR. "do no harm"

First checked tail incidence as Vince suggested. Check




Previously I indexed the horizontal stab left to right with the wing and glued indexing blocks on bot of stab to lock it in correct position. So did not recheck this.
But I did check that the horizontal stab saddle was on the same plane as the wing plane. This required a couple of paper shims.
I then glued the vertical stab to the horizontal stab only. When dry the tail feathers will be as one but removable from fuse.
When this dries I will address the left and right cones.

I love the 3 2 1 blocks for this. This is the third vert stab I have glued up using them. As long as all planes of the blocks touch it can't not be square.



Kevin

fazer

Kevin,
I would say your Spacewalker with your 55cc will fly just fine up to around 30lbs due to the thick airfoil and large wing area.

Just be mindful of the weight gain behind the cg. Nose weight has killed more than 1 otherwise great flying airplane.

Remember a light airplane always-always flies better whether it's weight is 50oz or 50 lbs for it's size and wing loading.

Mario

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Kevin being a old carpenter i have put a centerline mark in a few spots on the top of my fuse then run my lazer down it. The beam will go up your rudder once lined up and it cant get anymore exact than with a laser . I just downloaded the free plans for this plane but i will have staples do a 50 percent smaller copy so i can build a electric one. I will try and make it alot lighter and see how it goes. joe

Melchizedek

Mario,

Sometime soon, not sure when. I will do an up fit with all components ( sans landing gear) to get a rough Idea of CG situation).
All the behind CG mods are complete except the cones witch will be hollowed out.

Welcome Joe,
I have a cross beam laser. It is at work though. I haven't been to work in five weeks cause of finger injury. Had finger pinned back together last week. Before I glue the tail feathers I will be back to work or make a trip to work and get my laser. I couldn't agree more it is the best way. I will cross beam the wing tips and the vert stab to get it nats hinny.

When You start your electric mini do a thread. Would love to follow.

Kevin

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Cheap laser from harbor freight will work for a few bucks . Nice build Keven ! BTW i met Hazel Sig when i was a young pup at our 1/4 scale fly in at my old club 30 years ago . She was out promoting her new clipped wing cub kit . Nice lady ! I could not afford your kit when they first came out i had 2 kids in college and i was fixing crashed planes out of the garbage cans to enjoy my hobby. lmao fun fun ! joe

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Maybe using a water based resin like this would help cut the weight?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/airplane...500-ml-dlmbd37

I found an inexpensive cross beam laser at a local tool place for less than $20 its a good investment.

Melchizedek

Joe,

What a great story, both of them. But concerning Hazel. I would have loved to have met her. Read about her. What a woman. I kinda think of My Betty as a slightly plumper version.

Mike,

Great find on the water base resin. I think I will order some and give it a try. But for this build I am going to stay with the Epoxy resin. Reason being. I love the hardness it gives to a balsa surface. I am such a clutts I need my planes to be tough.

As for the laser, I own one, it is just 35 minutes away. But I have decided not to make a special trip if time comes to glue up the tail. I refer back up to post 458 pic 4 . The green tape on the blinds was so I could see the gap between wing and stab. The vert stab is dead on square with the Horizontal. Only thing required is parallel with wing. Who will I believe ? A laser or my lying eyes? Well, normally a laser if it is handy. But I will trust my lying eyes if one aint.

Worked the tail section up this morning. Six and a half hours later I think I got her.
I spoke in a previous post about hollowing out the cones. Aint happening. They weigh nothing.

The cones were shaped off the fuse. I soaked the pointy end in thin CA to keep them from going away.
By getting there front arc off the fuse and there vanishing point off the fuse I used a razor plane and sanding block to shape them. Checking with a straight edge frequently to keep the cone true.



Once they were shaped. The bottom of the vert fin had to be added on to so the solortex has something to cling to at the front.
Also a little curve added to fin front base as per plan.




When I went to glue them on (using med CA) The first one set up before I could get it all the way into place. It was tight against the fin but 1/16 short of front shoulder.
This is where the G version of this film changed to R . I was kicking myself for taking the short cut and not using slow set glue.
So I decided to glue the other side 1/16 short and add a filler to both. This meant some added sanding in place.

Once the cones were glued down and shaped. The tail post had to be blended with the back of the fuse.






Kevin

acerc

Outstanding Kevin. I don't recall, but, how is that going to be held on.

Melchizedek

Thank You Robert

I am planning an epoxy glue line down 4 planes. Front shoulder (turtle deck), saddle, and vert fin tail post to back of fuse, tail post to top of tail wheel ply plate.
I am also planning on the tail group support wires. Should be rock solid. Haven't yet decided whether 1 set of wires or 2. I think with all the reinforcement I have done to the tail feathers eliminating the wires would be ok. But none the less I like the looks of the tail wires.




Kevin

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

if you tack a piece of balsa the same thickness of your elev and a scrap piece the same thickness of your rudder ,then tack your blocks of your fillets you just made but still in block form its easy then to use your razor plane and sand the fillets fast without your real rudder or elev in your way . Makes a fillet fast and easy to do ,I dont remember who or where i learned it from but i do all mine that way now. Try it some time Keven . joe

Melchizedek

Joe,

I had considered doing it that way (did it that way on my Something Extra). Just out of preference and circumstances of the icicle type shape and everything else going on. I chose a different path.
Having looked real closely at it this morning (straight edge with back light). There appears to be a tiny dogleg at the transition of the turtled deck to the fillet cones. Using the CA to glue them down put the Kabosh on my efforts foe seamless. When it set up with the cone back from its final resting place. The planes were out of line. I feathered them in hoping it would be to minute to tell. To no avail.
Right now the dull balsa obscures it. But shinny paint will magnify it.

In my 30 years as a Cabinet Maker I have done a lot of conical work over the years. From little pedestals to conical reception desks to 14 ft tall lighting torchieres. Usually wrapped with veneer.
When there is a joint in a cone and the planes are not aligned. When shinny goes on, It will laugh at you, but the customer and your boss will frown.

So off to fix it I go.

Kevin

acerc

I feel your pain, believe me, I do. I am still not happy with my paint work, even considering another redo.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

I was out measuring for cabinets this morning on a side job and marking out centers for my plumber from a cabinet shop layout on my regular job as a super .Fun Fun! Iam like Ken and dont use CA anymore ,i use tight bond carpenters glue so i dont have to sand CA ,Less exspensive and cleans up with water. I glue a bunch of stuff together then a couple swipes with a small damp paint brush and it gets rid of the excess glue and forces the glue into the joint also. I was a carpenter for 29 and a super for a larger company now for 15 years but semi retired now joe

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

I like CA (foam safe only due to fumes) for somethings but I still use a lot of Titebond II. The wife borrows my CA when she splits a nail so I keep it on hand.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

I keep some CA on hand to basicly hold thengs together fast till my tight bond drys and yep my girlfriend swipes all kinds of my glues and tools from my work shop also. I pick them all up where ever she gets done with them :-( Gonig to put locks on my work shop soon as its the only room i have in our basement that she almost leaves stuff alone. lol When men are gone somtimes women are like racoons with their tiny hands into everything. joe

Melchizedek

Robert,
Valiant men of character, men of renown ! Keep pushing on until finally they reach the prize.
As will you my friend. A Peach she will be
Speaking of paint.
That is a daunting task in my near future. This will be my first paint job.


Mike and Joe,


CA is a two edged sword for me. I try not to use it cause it swells my sinuses. But I do keep it on hand. I use it when I can't find my patience.


Dog leg taken care of.

The first photo shows the amount I had to cheat it to make it work. What was I thinking ?



I kept the same cones, just sanded them in place. Since the tail feathers had been glassed. I had no problem with grinding ruts next to the cones.
The darkened patches on the front of the cones is balsa filler. there is almost none there but it discolored the wood.




Kevin

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Kevin,

I have a sensitivity to CA fumes as well but I find the Bob Smith Ind. foam safe Super Gold and Super Gold + work great on balsa without the fumes that do a number on my sinuses, nose and eyes. The foam safe uses a different solvent base than the regular CA. Try some next time and you may find you problem is gone or at least lessened than before.

Mike

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Everyone has their way of doing something different while building depending what mood they are in that day One of my building mentors (Merlyn Graves ) took a 3 ft long Japaneese hand saw to cut out his ail away from his wing one day in front of me .lmao I was shaking watching him but he was at ease doing it that way and still cuts wings and fuses that way when he needs to . He still uses CA among some other glues that alot of builders have not heard of let alone ever used ,here is one of Merlyns older birds and he is working on a 30 percent 310 now on RCscalebuilders now. Its fun to watch people build and learn from it ,i have enjoyed your big build Kevin and hope to see more of your builds soon. joe