Melchizedek

Mike,
Best wishes to your son and his family. Goes without saying, but thank him for there service.
I say there because even if only one spouse is signed up, the whole family is signed up with them. God bless them.
Glad you have been blessed with a grandson, as have I. Isn't it cool

Kevin

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Nothing else like it!

YellowBlueBird

This is a much older method of driving separate elevators. It just looks more reliable. Easy enough to adapt to a fiber tube in such a way that if it comes loose the parts will be interlocked and all most impossible to separate. This is what I used in my Chaos build.


Your workmanship is fantastic. Wish I could work metal that well.

jerry

Melchizedek

Thank you Jerry.

The way that you used on your Chaos is an excellent way. It would save a few grams of aluminum and screws in the tail also.
I will put that in my mental filling cabinet. Or, refer back to this tread. Sometimes I can't find that filling cabinet

Kevin

Melchizedek

Finished framing the vertical fin. Glassed the 2nd side of hor stab an first side fin.



Kevin

Leroy Gardner

Kevin your tail looked rock solid before the glass, even if you sand it off I'm not sure what you gained, seams as though the covering would accomplish the same thing without any added weight. It's going to be one tough bird when done. You have plans to do that to other parts.

Leroy

Melchizedek

Hi Leroy,

What I am gaining in my mind is knock around assurance. If I nose over, tail has a good chance of staying intact.
If I wack it into the door jamb, either car or house no sticks get nocked loose. If side wind flips her on the ground some insurance.
I would rather build a little heavy and strong than light and sorry. Especially with paint.
I don't intend to sand it off. just smooth and fill where needed.
As I get better on the sticks and build livelier planes I will think about light and agile.
Yes, I intent to glass all balsa skin. Soloertex on the open bays.

An unsupported end grain but joint is the weakest joint there is in woodworking. Even balsa.
I would never build a piece of furniture with such a joint. It would not last.
Even with the fabric (solortex) bolstering the joint, though it does last. It is a week spot.

Kevin

VincentJ

Nice work on the tail Kevin, one observation on the rudder, specifically the bottom of it. On the very bottom of the rudder on my Spacewalker I filled in the last horizontal brace down with balsa to give myself a solid base in which to secure my pull/pull horn. By doing this it will give you more options on where it can be placed. Just something to consider...Keep up the good work!

Melchizedek

Thank you Vincent. I will do that.

Kevin

Cub Flyer Fresno

Gee Kevin, if you build the whole plane that way, you could fly it into the side of the building and not damage it! Looks good... and solid!

Melchizedek

Lol, David. If I build it that strong I would only be able to drive it into the building

On a serious note. I weighed the vertical stab and rudder before glassing the 2nd side. 2nd side drying as I type.
Will weigh it again post clean up. The dif x 2 will give me the weight penalty. Will turn that into a percentage. Then weigh the horizontal stab and elevator.
Then figure that percentage and add the two percentages. Total weight penalty +/- should be attainable.(not factoring possible nose weight)

If anybody cares to, post your guess !
Answer In the morning.

Kevin

acerc

I will assume you are using glass around the 1/2oz mark and the amount of resin it requires to attach is so minute I am going to venture from my own experience and seeing how well you are doing it the weight penalty will be very minimal.

Melchizedek

Thats what im thinkin to Robert.
But i am anxious to find out.

Kevin

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Don't keep us in suspense what was the penalty?

Melchizedek

Fresh from the lab, results have been tabulated. Delay was the accounting firm Doey Cheetem & How, They had to certify.
Even though they are next door. They sleep in.

First the method. Spread resin on and let sit. Then wipe off all excess. Let cure.
Glass in normal fashion with peel ply overlay. Being meticulous about the spread of resin.
The peel ply leaves just enough resin to fill the grain of the cloth. It wicks the rest away.
The Scale war bird guys say it is ready for primer after this. With minor aborations to clean up.
If there is a fold line in the peel ply it will be in the finish. I tried ironing out fold lines . Didn't work so well.



What was gained. A much stiffer frame (less flex). A hard surface. Strong joints.
When dropped on top of each other they clink like glass rod.

Now for the penalty.

The weight of the rudder and vertical stab with one side glassed. 9.3 grams.


The weight with both sides glassed. 10 grams.


10 - 9.3 = .7 grams x 2 = 1.4 grams of glass on Vert
Weight before any glass 8.6 grams
1.4 divided by 8.6 = 16% weight gain.



Weight of hor stab and elevator with both sides glassed 22.5 grams


22.5 x .16 = 3.6 grams of glass

3.6 hor + 1.4 vert = 5 grams of glass total.


Weight penalty 1 nickel



Untenable for some of you maybe.

Kevin

VincentJ

Nice...and, I see that you listen to Klick and Klack! So if the total weight is about a nickle, then according to my calculations to counter that weight in the front of the plane that would be about two nickles or a dime...but a dime is less weight than one nickle, oh I'm so confused...LOL

Melchizedek

Vince,
I loved the Tappet Bothers. When I used to work overtime on Saturdays before our new economic norm, they were a staple.
Always good for a belly laugh and an education. They are not on anymore locally.

Maybe I will just make a compartment in front for Betty's purse.
You would not believe what she keeps in there !!!!

Kevin

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

A nickel's worth of weight doesn't seem to be too bad a deal for the added peace of mind. I thought Dewey, Cheatam, and Howe was in Boston? Oh wait your law firm members spells their names different. My bad! Granted it takes a lot more in the front to balance that amount out.

acerc

You forgot to add in the difference of what it would of weighed if you had to repair a broken trailing edge. I would lay odds one patch would be more weight. And you forgot to tabulate the lack of ugliness with not having any dents in any of the perimeter.

I have done similar before, 2" 1/2oz glass wrapping the perimeters. Adds so much at so little cost.

Melchizedek

Mike, I think Cheatam and his compatriots was accounting. Carmine NotUers was legal ?


Thanks, Robert. Believe me, I know how to dent em




Kevin

Melchizedek

Next step was to round the edges of the rudder and stab.
There is a note on the drawings about hinge gap. I opted for option 2.



This made it possible to make a nice pocket for the majority of the hinge knuckle.


I went to set the tail feathers on the fuse. It was then that it occurred to me the elevator gets trapped in by the vert fin tail post. I began thinking this will be problematic for assembly/finishing. But proceeded anyway.


While making the notch for the elevator connecting bar. The Ghost of Vincent began to haunt me . It said. " now back in post 322 to 324 you were asked about split elevator ". " And then again about splitting them" and you said " I think I will keep them together, that's why the wood bar went end to end"

And then it clicked. I got out the RAID and chassed that ghost away.

Then began to patch the whole I just cut. You will have to expand the pic to see the patch.
Also if you look thru the fin you will see what looks like a can of RAID. Just sayin.





Then emancipated the elevators from that treacherous bar.



It was at this time I felt kinda bad about pulling the raid out.
My apologies Vincent.

Next I thought it might not be a bad idea to balance the stab and elevator. They hang out about a foot each side.
First, made the elevators dead on symmetrical. There was a little deviation in shape. So I trued them up.
Then balanced them by giving the heavy side a diet on the width of the thick cross members. This got it close.
I trimmed them as not to be noticeable. That's where I stopped.
I then added a little piece of tin to the inside of the light side at the tip. Don't know what it weighed cause it wouldn't register on my scale.



Next up. I think, back to the fuse and wing.


Kevin

acerc

Believe it or not, I knew you would get to that conclusion. And the servos would not have known any difference in weight, just sayin.

Melchizedek

I believe you Robert, I think Vincent new also.

You guys are gentlemen.

Vince, the Raid thing was meant to bring a smile. No malice intended my friend.

Kevin

acerc

With the level of attention to detail there really was no other outcome. Now! In the sixth photo of post #396 it look's as though the light ply used for the leaf spring mount is a bit pitted in the center ply. Would that particular piece of wood benefitted by being regular ply, and maybe another piece on top for use with some blind nuts?

Leroy Gardner

Armor plating your airplane, for me thats a different approach than the landing one. Kevin sounds like you need bigger doors, on the shop and your transport and by all means stay away from trees, posts and fences, ha ha, I'm trying to be funny. It, the added weight and balancing of the finished product has got me to thinking, this is a question but will it do the job of balancing a tail heavy plane.? If you take the finished plane, upper, lower wing or what ever and make two eleveted balance pads just long enough to raise the wheels from table an inch, then put an oz. scale under the tail wheel will that be the amount of out of balance weight needed in the nose to trim it to thrust line. It sounds like that would work assuming I'm not missing something I forgot that there is stuff that can be moved foward to eliminate some of it and then check the weight on the tail again and put that in the cowl or spinner and so on.

So will that work, it makes sense but so does other things that don't work.

Leroy