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"Building" an ARF or RTF (?)

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Old 02-19-2014, 06:37 PM
  #26
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Maybe I've overlooked something but I don't think anyone has been flamed here. There is a difference between taking a pile of balsa, plastic and hardware and converting it into an airplane compared to taking a limited amount of prefabricated parts and putting them together to make an airplane. Big difference between the two that is basically the difference between build and assemble. But even more is the degree of work associated with the scratch builder as one has mentioned. Scratch building is the ultimate in building and takes the greatest efforts and knowledge based. Next easier is the kit building, with the ARFs, RTFs, etc with the least time consuming and knowledge based to turn operational.

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Old 02-19-2014, 07:59 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
My point is exactly what I said above. Many people do more than just fly model air plane, and the accuracy that we use in terminology here extends through all walks of life. While you may not see the difference, having a background in engineering and computer sciences I can tell you that their are huge differences and that it does matter way more than you will ever image.

Ken

To me Ken. What you just wrote.....is a sad, sad statement. You talk about accuracy in terminology, when I am talking about the enjoyment of the hobby. Really too, too, bad. Really too, too sad.

Now lets get to the put down by you. What I see, is if I don't have a background in Engineering or Cumpurting Science...... I just can't (image). What I can imagine is what J. Lennon wrote about........but it seems that will not happen on this site...... and with the blessing of their Manager.............
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:04 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwblake View Post
To me Ken. What you just wrote.....is a sad, sad statement. You talk about accuracy in terminology, when I am talking about the enjoyment of the hobby. Really too, too, bad. Really too, too sad.

Now lets get to the put down by you. What I see, is if I don't have a background in Engineering or Cumpurting Science...... I just can't (image). What I can imagine is what J. Lennon wrote about........but it seems that will not happen on this site...... and with the blessing of their Manager.............
And for someone to use words in such a poetic manner not to see the reason for it to matter is truly the saddest of them all.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:10 PM
  #29
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Good enough......by.............
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM
  #30
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The truth is there is a huge difference in the skill required to build a kit, as opposed to assembling an ARF. That.s just a fact. It doesn't make one person doing the job better than the other, just more skilled. Any one that builds kits can assemble an ARF, but only a few that assemble ARF's could build a kit. They don't have the skill. That's the difference. BTY, I do both kits and ARF's and I even just bought a RTF. Haven't had time to screw the RTF together yet as I am finishing details on a kit I built, and at the same time doing a "bash" on an ARF. On an ARF is it still a "kit bash" or is it an "ARF bash"??
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:27 PM
  #31
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Quite frankly my dear I don't give a damnnnn. I know what one is talking about irregardless of the words used. My only point is it does matter, for if nothing matters then all is lost. I don't degrade for the lack of proper terminology for I myself misspeak as well. Do what you enjoy, call it what you want, it only matters to you. But at least have the respect for others in regards to the same and not degrade for one holding themselves to a different standard because it is the same as yours in it only matters to them.

These are my opinions and I am well aware that they only matter to me!
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:27 PM
  #32
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In my short lived RC career about 6 yrs now I've done both stick builds, ARF's , ARC's and BNF foamies. I personally side with there is a build -vs- assembly difference. Yet the hrs and work that goes into a stick build and a good ARC assembly can be significantly different as can be the craftsmanship demonstrated. I haven't gotten too hung up on the difference with one exception. Building something from scratch or stick is dramatically more robust than the same model in ARC or ARF form. That being said what the finished product looks like can depend on the skill set of the individual. I grew in the quality of craftsman-ship in a bash of an ARC that I I had not been able to do in previous stick builds. That may be due to learning from previous builds and so on. Each new build/assembly I am trying to stretch skills and learn how to use new materials, fabricate parts or better final finishes. I would prefer to do stick builds but my current skills do tend to gravitate to improving the ARC or ARF assemblies many manufacturers provide. As I grow I personally would gravitate to doing all kit and scratch builds. This debate has been hashed over in many threads but in summary I do think there is a difference between a build and assembly on several levels.

Z
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:20 PM
  #33
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I like to assemble a arf take it and fly it till it turns into a kit. Then i build it back into a arf assemble it and repeat.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:25 PM
  #34
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Time is important to some of us. Then their are ones like me who have nothing but time. Taking a stack of wood and creating a object to life form. I feel like a god.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:39 AM
  #35
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I am presently putting the finishing touches to a Hangar 9 Christen Eagle II ARF, that is of the worst quality that I have seen in many, many years. Normally I would say that I am assembling this ARF, but because of such poor quality hardware and other issues, I would say that I am rebuilding it.

My " Personal " opinion is the you ASSEMBLE and ARF. You BUILD a kit !

The Christen Eagle is of such poor quality that it has made me want to return to my roots and build my model aircraft from kits. With a kit you know that it will be built correctly and the proper / quality hardware installed. Just this week I received my Balsa USA Fokker Eindecker 90 " KIT ".

I came into this hobby building model airplanes over 60 years ago with nothing but stick and paper models. Figure I might as go out the same way that I came in.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:45 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOT COALS View Post
Time is important to some of us. Then their are ones like me who have nothing but time. Taking a stack of wood and creating a object to life form. I feel like a god.

Taking a stack of wood and creating a object to life form. I feel like a god. What do you think about that boys?

Bob
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:06 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Taking a stack of wood and creating a object to life form. I feel like a god. What do you think about that boys?

Bob

Well, I don't know if I would word it quite the same way, but I share the sentiment.

There is an immense amount of satisfaction to be gained from taking a stack of wood, and a few drawings, and turning it into a flyable airframe. Doing so does provide you with a feeling of "invincibilty" in that you know that you have the ability to build any airframe that you desire.

In a way, you are creating a life form.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:29 AM
  #38
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LOL. Yes, I also find it most rewarding to build from a pile of raw materials.

Bob
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:42 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acerc View Post
How about "I operate a motor vehicle" and "I can drive a nail". Try switching the operate and drive in those statements.
I like that one! Is operating a nail like driving a hammer?

I do think scratch builders qualify under the definition of build big time and more. To me taking a block of wood, drawing plans, cutting, sanding, fitting, and all that is involved is even more than just building. Think about it, you guys actuallly start with the concept then all the way to completion.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:27 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luchnia View Post
I like that one! Is operating a nail like driving a hammer?
And the beat goes onnnnn, and the beat goes onnn.
I only participate in these such discussions when I have absolutely nothing else to do. It's like beating a dead horse, or is that beating a horse until it's dead, either way the damn thing needs to be buried.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:31 AM
  #41
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Arf'ers and builders are like liberals and conservative's

Arf'ers and liberals end up creating a pile of garbage.
Builders and conservatives pick up the garbage and make something of it.

Last edited by acerc; 02-20-2014 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:45 AM
  #42
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Ot vice versa, depending on your point of view.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:10 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TomCrump View Post
Ot vice versa, depending on your point of view.
Not according to history!!
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by acerc View Post
Not according to history!!
I do not think this is the proper forum acerc to bring your political points of view, as distorted, ingnorant, brainwashed, as they are, whatever. There are other places for that. We do not give rat arse about those. Now if you want to talk about models... this is the forum.

Gerry

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Old 02-20-2014, 06:45 AM
  #45
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Ok.. BEFORE this gets out of hand.... :-)
let's please remember that building, assembling, repairing, maintaining and FLYING are ALL parts of the activity we all know and love.
and that because I like to build and others like to assemble, (or because I like Chevy and someone else likes Ford) does NOT give me the right to call the other person names...
(or comment on anyone's political or personal preferences)
If I like to fly and someone else likes to carve a masterpiece out of a block of raw wood, that doesn't make either one of us any better than the other.

no wars, please
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:02 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerKonig View Post
I do not think this is the proper forum acerc to bring your political points of view, as distorted, ingnorant, brainwashed, as they are, whatever. There are other places for that. We do not give rat arse about those. Now if you want to talk about models... this is the forum.

Gerry
And as this country collapses because of the reasoning behind my views I really hope the dip****s liberals that hold on to the belief that everything can be given away suffer the most.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:48 AM
  #47
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This same bootless argument goes on in my other hobby field as well. I build violins, mandolins, and guitars from "scratch", meaning that I start from raw lumber flitches and carve everything pretty much by hand. Over the past several years, kits have started to become available that have the basic components roughed to shape. They still require substantial work to yield a decent playable instrument, but those that work from kits are looked upon by some as mere "assemblers". Purists would look down on me because I purchase flitches already cut and aged, rather than cutting my own maple and spruce logs, and I don't mix my own varnishes. To me, it's all a matter of degree. In the larger world outside RC, it's generally accepted that things produced from plans are "built" and prefabricated kits are "assembled". After all, an ARF is nothing more than a kit that someone else has partially or mostly assembled for you. Very few "builders" build their own engines, wind their own motors, build their own radios, or machine their own retracts, so who gets to draw the line where building becomes assembling? Would you say a plastic model airplane "kit" is built or assembled?

Who cares? It's like arguing how many angels can dance on a pinhead. A guy who flies his ARF has just as much fun as the guy who started from a kit, or one who designed and built from scratch. You might legitimately feel more PRIDE in the extra work and skill you put into your scratchbuild, and I think everyone recognizes that much more skill and industry is required for kits or scratchbuilds, but that's an issue separate from the semantics.

That's my $0.02 as a scratch, kit, and ARF builder/assembler, and it's no more valid than any other.

Now, the toy thing... them's fightin' words boys.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:01 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Taking a stack of wood and creating a object to life form. I feel like a god. What do you think about that boys?

Bob
Sounds like one of those Snake Preachers from the South. Just kidding ! Or am I ?
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:04 AM
  #49
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What the heck fellows, build, buy , steal. We all have our own preferences. As long as you enjoy the hobby and what YOU are doing, that is all that matters.

Isn't that what makes this world rotate ?
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:21 AM
  #50
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acerc, I hear ya !

Those of us that have scratch built and/or kit built are annoyed at the term 'building an ARF' for valid reasons. It is not the same, even if its just a play on words. If you have never built from a kit or scratch, you will never understand, period. Thus, the debate/argument will never come to reason. Those that only ever have bought an ARF will continue to defend that they BUILT that ARF as a matter of pride or principle, and us that have BUILT kits or from scratch will always defend that being the only true definition of BUILDING. Who is correct? US Kit Builders of course!
This is one of those topics where we really can only agree to disagree. Those of us that build in the true sense will just have to suck it up, and let the ARF 'builders' believe what they want about whatever definition they choose to use to describe completing the airplane.. There is plenty of room for all of us at the field, no matter how we describe the way the plane was 'put together'.
Craftsmanship... I bet there is a lot of difference of opinion to that word these days too, huh?
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