"Building" an ARF or RTF (?)
02-20-2014, 09:30 AM
#51
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I'm still waiting on the answer to my question... can claim that I "built" the engine on my plane since I: bolted the OS Max .65AX to my plane, attached a 11x8 prop & spinner, connected fuel tubing, glow plug, and exhaust, scuff and painted the spinner to match the plane.....and.....balanced the prop?
02-20-2014, 09:38 AM
#53
I'm still waiting on the answer to my question... can claim that I "built" the engine on my plane since I: bolted the OS Max .65AX to my plane, attached a 11x8 prop & spinner, connected fuel tubing, glow plug, and exhaust, scuff and painted the spinner to match the plane.....and.....balanced the prop?
others are entitled to their own)you can 'claim' anything you'd like.
but no, you didn't 'build' that engine.
that does NOT mean you don't have the skills to build one if you wanted to, or that those skills are even required for you to have fun with it.
02-20-2014, 10:00 AM
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I didn't realize you were waiting for an answer, but here it is (in MY opinion others are entitled to their own)
you can 'claim' anything you'd like.
but no, you didn't 'build' that engine.
that does NOT mean you don't have the skills to build one if you wanted to, or that those skills are even required for you to have fun with it.
others are entitled to their own)you can 'claim' anything you'd like.
but no, you didn't 'build' that engine.
that does NOT mean you don't have the skills to build one if you wanted to, or that those skills are even required for you to have fun with it.
Last edited by SushiHunter; 02-20-2014 at 11:07 AM.
02-20-2014, 11:12 AM
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02-20-2014, 01:23 PM
#58
Or put together? Or made? Or prepare?
It is funny how some people think a word has a meaning and sometimes ti does not. Happens all the time even with professional linguists. The real solution is to google the darn thing and check what a dictionary says. And then, keep looking to see if any dictionary agrees with your interpretation, and then quote the dictionary:-) (to give credibility to your claim).
Gerry
I assemble/put together/build models. Of all kinds, with all kind of different degrees of prefabrication.
It is funny how some people think a word has a meaning and sometimes ti does not. Happens all the time even with professional linguists. The real solution is to google the darn thing and check what a dictionary says. And then, keep looking to see if any dictionary agrees with your interpretation, and then quote the dictionary:-) (to give credibility to your claim).
Gerry
I assemble/put together/build models. Of all kinds, with all kind of different degrees of prefabrication.
02-20-2014, 01:26 PM
#59
I'm still waiting on the answer to my question... can claim that I "built" the engine on my plane since I: bolted the OS Max .65AX to my plane, attached a 11x8 prop & spinner, connected fuel tubing, glow plug, and exhaust, scuff and painted the spinner to match the plane.....and.....balanced the prop?
Gerry
02-20-2014, 01:36 PM
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What a hoot!
I can just picture all the scratchbuilders chuckling at the hubris of the kitbuilders, thinking, "Someone else designed it for you, someone else defined the part structure, someone else wrote instructions for you, someone else selected the materials, someone else laser cut all the pieces for you, someone else chose all the hardware that's included, and then you 'built' the kit."
Really, guys, nobody disputes that it takes much more skill and effort to construct a kit than an ARF, and more yet to build from plans, and still more to work from your own designs. I don't understand all the vitriol around the choice of a word. Our building skills are not threatened if someone says they "built" an ARF.
BTW: Webster definition for "assemble": to construct from individual pieces. Sounds like a kit to me. I don't care, I use either word interchangeably.
I can just picture all the scratchbuilders chuckling at the hubris of the kitbuilders, thinking, "Someone else designed it for you, someone else defined the part structure, someone else wrote instructions for you, someone else selected the materials, someone else laser cut all the pieces for you, someone else chose all the hardware that's included, and then you 'built' the kit."
Really, guys, nobody disputes that it takes much more skill and effort to construct a kit than an ARF, and more yet to build from plans, and still more to work from your own designs. I don't understand all the vitriol around the choice of a word. Our building skills are not threatened if someone says they "built" an ARF.
BTW: Webster definition for "assemble": to construct from individual pieces. Sounds like a kit to me. I don't care, I use either word interchangeably.
02-20-2014, 01:45 PM
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Yeah, I kind of agree that we assemble planes, be it kit, arf or otherwise. Scratch building would be just that, building.
Like a house. You build a house from plans. That is, you start from drawn plans, and from a pile of lumber, you cut each piece of wood to length (or to spec) and build.
Thinking about it, I think I generally say "I put that kit together" so it seems to translate to assemble more than build.
But, whats the real argument here anyways..
I think its Obama's fault.
Like a house. You build a house from plans. That is, you start from drawn plans, and from a pile of lumber, you cut each piece of wood to length (or to spec) and build.
Thinking about it, I think I generally say "I put that kit together" so it seems to translate to assemble more than build.
But, whats the real argument here anyways..
I think its Obama's fault.
02-20-2014, 01:56 PM
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02-20-2014, 02:07 PM
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this thread has lasted longer than I anticipated-I build kits and I assemble arfs-and I have great fun with both!!!! I been building kits and building from plans for over 40 years, I have assembled arfs for the last 20 or so years. To be honest I believe we all like to be recognized when we build a kit-more so than we assemble the ARF due to the vast differences in the amount of time and effort it takes between the two as well as the pride one can have after building a plane from a pile of wood. This is my opinion and I sure would never fault anyone for having fun with ARF, BNF, PNP, or whatever the new terms would be.
02-20-2014, 02:29 PM
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this thread has lasted longer than I anticipated-I build kits and I assemble arfs-and I have great fun with both!!!! I been building kits and building from plans for over 40 years, I have assembled arfs for the last 20 or so years. To be honest I believe we all like to be recognized when we build a kit-more so than we assemble the ARF due to the vast differences in the amount of time and effort it takes between the two as well as the pride one can have after building a plane from a pile of wood. This is my opinion and I sure would never fault anyone for having fun with ARF, BNF, PNP, or whatever the new terms would be.
So in regards to that sandwich. suppose someone gets sick and dies from that turkey sandwich, who would be responsible for that, the person (grocery store customer) who assembled it or the organization (grocery store and/or vendor) who provided the ingredients?
02-20-2014, 03:22 PM
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If the ARF had a defect in it's structure and or materials used which caused it to crash and be a total loss, if anyone was liable to replace it who would that be? The actual manufacturer of the ARF or the consumer who paid the manufacturer for the plane and just did the final assembly of less than half dozen prefabricated components?
02-20-2014, 03:53 PM
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There is no answer to that that can be agreed on. Im sure we have all seen the threads about this very thing.. ARF crash's and the owner posts all about how it was everything but his own fault.
Most ARF companies I am aware of have liability definitions that basically puts the owner at his/her own risk, beyond the most obvious of manufacturing flaw's/defects, and even that will only hold up if the plane is within its assembly state, prior to flight anyways.
Bottom line is, or rule of thumb.. you (the owner) are responsible to assemble the airplane to be airworthy, period. The manufacturer really only claims that the airplane is capable of flight.
Of course, this is just a point of view, and may not necessarily even completely factual or accurate, for all I know.
Most ARF companies I am aware of have liability definitions that basically puts the owner at his/her own risk, beyond the most obvious of manufacturing flaw's/defects, and even that will only hold up if the plane is within its assembly state, prior to flight anyways.
Bottom line is, or rule of thumb.. you (the owner) are responsible to assemble the airplane to be airworthy, period. The manufacturer really only claims that the airplane is capable of flight.
Of course, this is just a point of view, and may not necessarily even completely factual or accurate, for all I know.
02-20-2014, 03:58 PM
#72
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Hey, I never faulted anybody when I started this thread. Even said that anyone who flies airplanes is (at least partially 
) OK in my book.
Also stated that many posts in the ARF/RTF section relayed how many of these planes had components fail or depart the craft entirely during flight.
Then made the observation that none of these things had happened to any kit that I have "built." Also said that I was not looking to start any verbal fisticuffs or smack talking.
Simply stating that when you build (or put together "the laser cut parts that someone prepared" ) the plane will probably have "structural integrity."
And that I learned a whole lot of things about this hobby by Building - that someone who has only done ARF&RTF likely will not know.
) OK in my book.Also stated that many posts in the ARF/RTF section relayed how many of these planes had components fail or depart the craft entirely during flight.
Then made the observation that none of these things had happened to any kit that I have "built." Also said that I was not looking to start any verbal fisticuffs or smack talking.
Simply stating that when you build (or put together "the laser cut parts that someone prepared" ) the plane will probably have "structural integrity."
And that I learned a whole lot of things about this hobby by Building - that someone who has only done ARF&RTF likely will not know.
02-20-2014, 04:36 PM
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Just now recalled one of the first ARF fliers I ever saw, many years ago. Never had seen the guy before or since. He could take off & land (barely) and repeatedly would climb up high, nose over & gun it. Swooping straight down at full bore and YANKING full up elevator at the last second. Somebody told him he had better ease off on that, but he would not take heed.
I mentioned to my buddy to keep watching because something funny was going to happen. Well, I'll leave it to your imagination as to what happened on the fifth or sixth time he performed his only "stunt." The kid got all ballistic yelling about how "something was wrong with that airplane." How he was going straight to the hobby shop & get his money back!
I looked over at my buddy and said " I told you something funny was going happen."
I mentioned to my buddy to keep watching because something funny was going to happen. Well, I'll leave it to your imagination as to what happened on the fifth or sixth time he performed his only "stunt." The kid got all ballistic yelling about how "something was wrong with that airplane." How he was going straight to the hobby shop & get his money back!
I looked over at my buddy and said " I told you something funny was going happen."