Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
I assembled the model with the all the tail feathers on, to see if I had any issues with the work so far. I did have two minor issues, and they will be corrected with minimal work. I added a piece of 1/8" light ply on to the tail of the aircraft to close off the aft fuselage and once I had the fin and rudder on, I found out that the rudder will need to have a bit shaved off the very bottom, to fit the fuse properly. I made the rudder fit tight up against the fuselage when I built it, and I didn't have the 1/8" light ply in placed with I set it up. I'll need to do a little bit of sanding to get it right. I also needed to cut down the length of the plastic 1/4x20 stab hold down bolts, so the rudder can fit flush against the bottom of the fuselage floor. If you notice, the rudder has cut away places on the bottom, to facilitate hardware for the tail wheel to fit through, when the rudder is in place. I cut three more spaces on the fin so that the extra hardware I installed, to hold down the removable stab, would fit emplace. No big deal...I will just need to cut down the plastic screws a bit.

Its a big rudder and I do believe I'll have the rudder authority I'll need for single engine situations. The removable elevator is on solid and has no side play in any direction, once installed with all the hardware. And though the rudder looks a bit large for this model...its only a couple of inches taller then the kit supplied typical Ugly Stick round rudder. Even then, I've seen several different shapes for Ugly Stick rudders, but basically they are all the same. This one is will do the job...

Here are the pictures of the tail feathers installed on the model. I will do the modifications to the rudder and begin covering the fin and elevator.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Leroy Gardner

Right about the rudder Bib , it does look big and I hope you never need it all. One thing about twin engines is the not knowing how she flies on one of them, it's enough dealing with the two right hand rotating engines, it woulf be nice to have one a leftie. Some engines can be made to run left hand or they may be made that way, 4 strokes for sure.

Plane looks odd in present form, wings and engines will change all that. AMR's planes all seam to fly well, your's should do likewise. I hear the wing jig they provide makes a perfect wing, I like that idea.

All the time delays for parts you have is the price you pay for living in paradise, ha ha, not all things are bad.

Leroy

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Leroy,
I've built and flown several twin ugly sticks before and all were manageable with one engine turning. The vertical fin itself is not much bigger in square area then the kit supplied round standard ugly stick rudder and fin. Its a really large rudder in the kit, all I did is take out the circle rudder and made it rectangular in shape. Its three and one half inches taller, but not as wide. I did add the forward dorsal fin to make the rudder look a bit better, and the actual moving rudder has the same square inch area as the kit built unit.

I have found out over the years that on twins...take all the rudder you can get and mix in C.A.R. (coupled aileron and rudder), at least 15%. I'll know more after I have my engines mounted and broken in. I am going with two header fuel tanks (6oz. each), so I will at least know I will have fuel for ten minutes of flight, with my single main fuel tank set up. I have concerns that I may lose an engine on take off or shortly there after with out the header fuel tanks. Its a new model and new untried systems for me, so I'm trying to keep a plan "B" available to all my modifications...especially with the center fuel tank system I'm trying out.

I'm also installing an Eagle Tree auto pilot, but only using the rudder stabilizer as a yaw dampener. I have a place picked out for it just forward of the center fuel tank mount, right on the apex of the C.G. Eagle Tree recommends you place their sensor on the C.G.-so I will. I can turn if on and off by a Tx switch and if there is any issues with the unit, I'll turn it off and take it out of the equation.

I'm now covering the elevator and rudder. I'm a bit rusty on applying Super Monokote...but it will all come back to me in time...its just been a while since I covered my last model.

I never had an issues with my twin engine models before, with all propellers tuning the same way. But this is my first twin gas model and not sure how they will spool up from idle to full power. Holding it down on the run way and building up a good head of speed, prior to rotating helps, if you lose one at take off. If I'm slow and low and lose one...I power down and take the best shot at a landing I can...minimizing the damage as much as I am able to do. I've never had a twin spin in and crash on me, but my P-38's. But all my twin engine Ugly Sticks flew great on one engine...really great. A 35cc gas engine should provide enough thrust to fly the model on one engine, even at 30+ pounds G.W. My F6F weighs in at 20#'s and flys great on a 36cc gas engine...so I suspect so will this airframe.

My gas line, quick disconnects, w/auto shut off came in yesterdays mail...and now I have all the parts I need for my fuel system and electronics, that go in the fuselage. The solid brass, fuel-through the bulkhead fittings-are well made and for 1/8" fuel line. I'm going to stay with the 1/8" fuel line diameter for this model...if it proves to be an issue, I can install larger fuel tanks in the nacelles and do away with the center tank system altogether.

As soon as I am finished covering the tail feathers, I'll post more pictures.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Leroy Gardner

Hi Bob, good to know you have a background with twins, I don't think there is any diference gas or nitro on their flying. There are a couple of B-24 flying in our parts, one has opposit turning engines and it is alot more stable than the other, both have 30CC engines. There are , as you know, many twins flying out there and they fly just fine. Just the same you explain things well and I'm learning things from you where 2 engines are concerned. I'm waiting for a club member to get his P-38 finished, it's composit with 2 DLE 35RA engines, they sure sound sweet running in unison. He broke them in in the plane and did the taxie tests at the field. It will be a beauty when finished. Something about twins running together, can't get that sound any other way.

Leroy

box car

The full size B-25 did not have opposite turning engines, just a FYI

Leroy Gardner

Ken thats true but on a scale model countering out the effects with an opposite running engine does have it's benifits in handeling. I think most guys don't do it because of the cost of right hand engines. It's only a guess but it probably has different effects on different air frames.

Leroy

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
Back at it again...and finished covering the horizontal stabilizer and both elevators. I was surprised at just how much Monokote I used...almost a full small roll of yellow, but the end result came out ok.

I'm onto covering the vertical fin, for rudder and rudder.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
Today I finished covering my vertical fin and rudder. Then I installed my stabilizer onto the fuselage, along with the rudder and took a few pictures. I installed one of my two elevator servo's, ran two 60" long, 22 gage, servo extensions through the inner aft fuselage tube, and installed my port elevator servo. I double checked the twisted wire servo extensions and all functioned properly. Next I used 4/40 threaded rod and made my control rod from my servo to the port elevator. I used good 4/40 ball link on the servo, with 4/40 hardware and fiber lock nuts w/washers to hold it to the servo arm, and a removable 4/40 ball link onto the port elevator control horn, w/double jam nuts. The control rod is a 9" long run, from the servo to the control horn and it seems strong enough, with a pull for up elevator on both sides. I'll install the starboard side servo, control rod and rod ends tomorrow.

I was going to use an aluminum control arm, but it was to long (at 1.5"), and need 3/4" to 1" max, long aluminum servo arm, to do the job. I'll order these tomorrow, along with other goodies I'll need.

After this, its on to the pull/pull cables for the rudder and steering assy.

This is my first really big gas powered model, and if anyone has any comments to the work, please let me know.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
Today I finished installing the rudder and the tail wheel steering pull/pull cables. I've covered the top and bottom of the fuselage and part of the aft section on the sides. Now that the rudder and steering controls are in, I can finish covering the fuselage sides. I will not cover the front of the fuselage until the wing half's are built and ready to cover.

Tomorrow I'll cover the fuselage sides (now that my cables are in) and begin the fuel system and electronic, instillations.


Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

thailazer

It all looks great. My only comment would be the spring loaded horns. I have had a lot of flutter problems in my last couple of years and it is always some energy storage element like a torque rod or a springy push rod. Have been slowly converting all my planes to have servos within six inches of the control surface and no flex anywhere. My gasser has an individual servo for each side the elevator for redundancy and load distribution. That load spring would worry me, but maybe others have had experience with them that can comment.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Thailazer,
Both my elevators have their own servo to drive them, with 9" 4-40 rods, but I did mount springs onto my tail wheel steering. With the weight of 30~35 lbs. G.W. of the model, I felt I would need some kind of give to the tail wheel steering. We have crazy winds at our flying field, and cross winds are the norm. Now these springs are not the springs that came with the tail wheel landing gear, but much heavier springs I purchased from NAPA auto. They have a much more heavier pull then your standard springs that come with most tail wheel assemblies-even your larger assy's. They are under a light pressure and hold position quite well. With any side load on landing, with out some kind of give in the tail wheel steering on my heavier models, the springs will give a bit and not tear up my rudder servo. I am using a MG, BB servo and I do hope this is enough to give me longer servo life. There is no play at all in this set up and its tight and motion free.

Did you use stronger springs in your tail wheel assy. or use the lighter springs that came with your tail wheel assy. With out some kind of give to the tail wheel steering, any hard cross wind, side load will put a heavy load onto the tail wheel assy. That is my concern and why I built the system as I did. On my smaller models (.40~.90 size), I usually use a straight rod with a nice "V" bend into the rod to give me the give I need with my less then perfect landings in cross winds.

Thanks for the input and I'll see how this works out. I did use these heavier springs on my last large gas model (R3), but I never got to find out how the springs would work, because I only managed to get one 5 minute flight, before the model re-kit itself (elevator servo failure).

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

thailazer

My tail wheel assembly looks quite similar to yours, and I also use stronger springs like you do. My comment was about the photo below where it appears there is a spring on the horn for the elevator. After looking at it closer I see that the spring is only for the ball keeper retention which is certainly no problem for flutter. Great looking project!



08-26-2014 11:50 PM

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Thailazer,

I have a removable horizontal stabilizer and need the quick disconnects on the two elevator push rods. Other wise, I would have done something similar to what I did on the rudder. I needed to make the stab removable to get everything into my VW van. At the moment I'm covering both sides of the fuselage, the aft section in yellow, up to the center of the wing. Then its on to installing all the gear into the fuselage.

I have spent quite a bit of time in Chiang Mai and love the city. I've not been back in almost eight years, but I've been there many times in my past. When I was flying out of Udon Thani during the South East Asia war, I spent a lot of time in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai. I loved Northern Thailand, the food and the many happy folks I met there. One day I will return, but for now...I need to get this model built.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
Today I managed to get the fuselage sides covered and then reinstalled my stab. I glued in my Robart hinges into the stab and the gap is nice and tight. Tomorrow I'll make new 4-40 push rods for the two elevators and begin installing my radio gear.

I'll be making a battery rest for my dual Rx Lipo's and Velcro them in place. Then I'll need to make a bed, or mounting, for the yellow power box and one of my two Rx's. One Rx will sit in the yellow power box and my power box on/off-volt meter switch, will need to be mounted too. All in time...

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
Today I started to install my electronics and have a good start. I installed my four multi plugs, hooked up 12, 24" twisted wire servo extensions, installed my Yellow Power Box and on/off-voltage switch. I needed to install a 1" black plastic tube to hold all my wires together (the 12 servo wires off of the multi plugs and two leads from the elevator servo's) and clean up the instillation. My two 3200 mha lipo's fit easily into the nose section, but need to make up some kind of connector for the lipo's to fit into the Yellow Box plugs. Right now...nothing matches up with these two items ( I'll show pictures tomorrow of the problem). It all went in with out a problem, but by all the gods...there are 15 different wire connectors to sort out and get working properly with my Rx and Tx. I also need to get my fuel system installed and Yaw Dampener, with rudder servo hooked up too.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
I have installed the 32 oz. fuselage fuel tank and after getting it installed...decided to use this tank for smoke oil. I picked up a smoke oil pump from Hobby King and it is a smaller size pump. It fit easily in between where the landing gear lateral braces sit and quite easy to install. I used sticky double sided foam tape and servo mounting screws. I then plumbed the tank, installed the through the bulkhead fuel assys, a round aluminum fuel drain and a square Miracle fuel port. I placed sticky foam strips onto the fuel tank, so no matter what the fuel tank touches...it touches foam strips first. The fuel tank sets into the compartment by itself and the foam strips hold it in place. There are two fuel filters in the smoke oil system, prior to the smoke oil pump intake. All the plumbing is in and looks to be complete. I also installed the quick disconnects and tyraped every thing down.

Each engine nacelle will have its own fuel tank.

Next is the Yaw dampener (Eagle Tree unit) instillation.

I will be utilizing 17 channels. Channels 1 & 2 -Engine throttles, 3 & 4 Ailerons, 5 & 6 Elevators, 7 & 8 Flaps (3 position switch), 10-Engine kill, 11 & 12 Engine Choke (three position switch), 13 & 14 Engine Start (three position switch), 15-Smoke, 16-Brakes, 17-Yaw Dampener on/off.

I've a really simple brake system I've used before and it gives even brake pressure to both tires. I set a formed metal sheet to the shape of the tire...say 3" long and one pull pin attached to the metal sheet. One servo pulls on a line connected to both tires, in a "Y" configuration and a fishing clip to slide on the cable. Automatic even pull and if you are carful and get your metal sheet formed the same (it looks like a snow ski, bent around the tire...kind of) on both sides, it will work every time. I set mine up to one setting on, and one off, but if I have a separate dial on my Tx., they can be made to be proportional mechanical brakes.

I have three mixes I would like to have, C.A.R., Aileron to Elevator, Flap to Aileron.

These are my plans and it all depends on the programing of my Spektrum radio. Its kind of a wish list and its going to take a few phone calls to Horizon. They are good folks and they have helped me and a few buddies before.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

G38's 3 piece wing.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha Simco,
I am impressed with the work you did on your Twin Ugly Stick build. When I first saw pictures of your modifications, I questioned the way you installed your main landing gear. But with a three piece wing, it is easily seen to be a very nice modification-with your fixed landing gear, set onto your engine nacelles. That would make for a more strong attachment, then with a split wing, as the kit normally builds into. I like what you did and very unusual...just my kind of model.

I would like to know how your model flew and handled on its first flights. How did your C.G. check out...did you add much lead to the nose (I have heard this model builds tail heavy)? What was the total weight of your model, with all the ballast in for flight? I lengthened my nose in my build to install my two Rx batteries way forward...maybe not as nice a nose as your model, but very functional. To be honest...I would do the nose piece a bit different then I originally did...but maybe on my next kit-for now, this nose will fly. I want to build the 30cc version, with two 20cc gas engines and I will make this one a bit different.

You modified your tail feathers...how does the model handle with a smaller rudder and elevator? My rudder is 15% larger then the kits designed and my stabilizer is almost the same in square inches. With twins...I like a strong rudder for engine out flight...but your rudder actually looks smaller then the kits design. So I wonder how your model handles engine out...? The G38's once set up properly, are very reliable engines, so I doubt you have had any problems with them...or at least I hope you didn't so far. But to be honest...I'm really curious how it handles in the air, and how your take off and landings are with your model.

What did you use for your engine cowls and what is their diameter and length?

Great Job and love what you did to your kit. I'm having fun building mine...though not as much building right now as I would like. I've had family here for a few months and more coming tomorrow, but all will be gone by Sept. 26th.... : ) I love them all, but after two months of family here...its time for me to take a vacation.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

The cg was fairly close. I went 30% of the wing for cg and it was under the wing tube. The tail feathers were pretty close to stock. Just a hair reshaped to get rid of the "ugly Stik" look. Got rid of all scalloped edges. All the material for making the tail and nose came out of the box. With the long moment from wing to tail it's a little slow turning. I didn't build for total performance. Just an around the patch airplane. Engine out was pretty much a non event TWICE for a finicky ignition unit. Altitude and airspeed. Pointed down and running engine to idle.9x6in. cowlings from fiberglass specialties. If you haven't built the engine boxes, ditch the light ply firewalls. Add serious tri stock to corners. Vibrations turns this area to mush. It's a head turner

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

couple more

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
I managed to get the Yaw dampener mount and installed (the Eagle Tree 3 axis auto pilot). I will only be using the rudder "yaw" function and do not plan on using the aileron or elevator function of the auto pilot (the Eagle Tree is made to use only one elevator servo & I have two elevator servo's). By selecting 2D or 3D (heading lock), I can play with the unit to see what helps the best for take off. Eagle Tree needs to be mounted on the C.G. and facing in the proper way, for it to function properly.

To mount this properly, I had to make a mount for it, just forward of the smoke tank. I had to keep the unit low enough to mount, with out the wing mounting interfering with the Eagle Tree unit. I also had to make sure the unit mount was removable for access to the smoke plumbing & oil tank, but the Eagle Tree unit had to have a solid non moving mount to function properly.

I cut 3/8" square hard wood to size and glued in place. Using light ply, I cut a plate for the Eagle Tree unit to set upon. I used thin double sided black tape to hold the unit down, and a ty-rap as a safety hold, for the unit.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
The wing jib is the next thing I assembled, and this is to begin the wing buld. There are six pieces of laser cut pieces of wood that make up the jig and the fit is perfect. Your asked to cut four blocks of wood (1" sq. x 2" long), and screw these into the provided laser marked holes in the wing jug. I spot glued the jig in several places to hold the integrity of the jig in place, with a bit of thick CA.

You will build the Right Wing first...not the left wing, as the build manual states (...the original build manual is for the single engine airframe, not the twin). The twin engine build manual will have you build up the Right wing panel first. I suggest you build up the wing jug as the original manual states, then flip the wood 180 degrees around to build up the Right wing pane, then screw and glue the jig together for the Right wing.

I built up the Right Wing jig and from what I make out in the build manual, you will do steps #115 ~ #119-using the single engine build manual. Then go over to the twin engine conversion build manual and continue to march. I've my wing jig set up to build the Right Wing, and now picking out all the parts for both wings and taking inventory on all my wood.

I had a real issue with my radio gear set up and it took more time and effort then I first envisioned. I was able to figure out how to set it up with some help from Specturm. The channel assignments were changed and I'm using this set up for my 18 channel Spectrum Tx. Channel #1) Right Throttle, #2) right Aileron, #3) Right Elevator, #4) Rudder, #5) Flap, #6) Left Aileron, #7) Left Throttle and #8) Left Elevator. I have C.A.R. set up, Differential Ailerons, and I mixed Ailerons and Elevators together. I've my trims set up and sub trims to both throttles. I also mixed my Flaps to Ailerons...I get take off Flaps (25%) with no Aileron movement and with full flaps (60 degrees down), I get 25% aileron droop. There is a 2 second slow delay on deployment of Flaps and Ailerons, in both directions.

I also ordered from Down and Locked, a servo power board and twin sync add-on unit, for gas engines with electronic ignition.
http://shop.downandlocked.com/main.sc

The new Twin Sync unit does away with the magnets and pickups need for it to work, the normal way. By tying into the electronic ignition, it utilizes the magnet pick up for the timing of the engine spark, to drive the Twin Sync. This so simplifies the set up, that it was well worth the effort to have it onboard. Hopefully this will help aid the spool up of my gas engines, to take off power, with out any yaw issues.

I had a Yellow Block, servo power board I picked up from Hobby King (version 1). Everything I read about the yellow power board said it was worth the funds...but when I hooked every thing up to it...it failed electrically. I ordered the Power Block unit from Down & Locked, its a bit different, yes...it was a bit more expensive, and yes...I feel very lucky the old unit failed prior to flight.

Aloha,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
Well...its been over a year and one half since I finished my fuselage build. I kind of got burned out on the build...and took a break. I ended up building a 20cc powered P-51D (T.F. ARF), a ESM Skyraider and ESM F6F-the F6F is no longer with the living... : (, One 38" wing span Spitfire with a .15 and a K&B .18 powered size two stroke glow ugly stick. The last thing I built was a safety stand for the model out of red wood and took it to our flying field at Pu'unene, I am back and started on the wing to the 106" wing span Giant Ugly Stick Twin today.

I've two electric start EME 35 cc gas engines for the model, a twin sync electronic sensor for the engines, 20 oz. Roto fuel tanks and brass tubing for the smoke line. The model has a 32oz. smoke tank in the fuselage, an electric smoke pump, one way valve for the smoke line and two smoke, side mounted exhausts, for the engines. I'm going to make some smoke with this twin and it should look great in the air.

I puled out the wing jig and put it together. I will pull out the left side wing ribs and parts and set them up for assembly. I will need to glue some of these parts together before I start the actual assembly, then its on with the build.

They have you build up the jig for the left side first...but the separate instructions for the twin conversion shows you the right side wing panel. So I will make sure all parts fit properly then glue where instructed. The instructions are quite clear to make the jig firm...as instructed and on a flat board. I spot glued the jib emplace in several locations as insturcted. You will need to make four 1" x 2" wood rectangle pieces to hold the jug together. I used servo screws to hold the wood sticks in place-see the pictures.

Since I changed the tail feathers from the kit build...I added some weight to the tail of the model. I wanted a different look to the model and a larger rudder. I'm going to stretch the engine nacelles two (2") inches to help with the balance and if I have too, I'll move them further out with stand offs for the engines. I will then build light ply cowls for the model and fit them to the nacelles...after I know the balance is ok. It will also make the engine nacelles look a bit better against the wing, then the kit shows in the standard build. The kit standard build has the fire walls almost against the wing leading edge.

I have four new G20's that were given to me really cheap...and I almost...I say almost decided to make this a four engine model. The cost of the extra parts if I purchased them from AMR was near $200.00 just for the nacelles...and since I have the two electric start EME's now in house...decided against it. There is a four engine electronic sync available...and I did give it a bit of thought. If I had yet to purchased the two EME 35's...I would have made it a four engine model. I've done it before on a 120 size Ugly Stick...and it was a blast to fly. I had four C. Lee K&B .40's in the model and I flew it for years. It made the most beautiful music in the air...!

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

thailazer

Glad you are back on it Bob! Going to be a unique plane.

RCbuf

Hi Bob, I have read your thread with great interest as I am considering building this as well. I would like to put 3 EME 35 on it. I see you have done this on a smaller stik. I am wondering about the progress on this model. Surely interested in final weight and balance.

John