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G&L 1/5 DHC chipmunk - diary of a build.

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G&L 1/5 DHC chipmunk - diary of a build.

Old 08-29-2014, 09:24 AM
  #601  
JeffH
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Klass Kote is good stuff. Not exactly speedy since you have to let it induct and such. TCPGlobal.com also sells urethane primers. Theirs are $30-40 for a quart kit. They should be able to be sanded the same day if it is warm enough.
Old 08-29-2014, 09:42 AM
  #602  
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Originally Posted by JeffH
Klass Kote is good stuff. Not exactly speedy since you have to let it induct and such. TCPGlobal.com also sells urethane primers. Theirs are $30-40 for a quart kit. They should be able to be sanded the same day if it is warm enough.
I am liking this Klass Kote paint. I ordered the fast set primer. This dries faster then the standard part "B" I should be able to sand in a couple of hours, but I like to let the final cote dry overnight.

When I finish the P-47 I will not used any rattle can primer. I like the Dupli-color specialty primer that you shoot with a HVLP sprayer, covers really good and dries fast. no need for a catalase primer for filling scratches, and building panel lines. I will get the black primer for the undercoat of the KK aluminum paint.


TB
Old 08-30-2014, 05:37 AM
  #603  
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Repainting of the butterscotch parts is complete and went well. This yellow plays tricks on you so you have to just trust.
I mixed the crap out of this batch. I mixed up 4oz of each for a total of 12oz and used only half of that.
With the new settings on the gun I am putting less paint on the parts. I can do 4 nice and light coats building it up to a nice even wet coat. I only did one wet coat being it already has paint on it.

As first it looked just the same but as the sun hit it the yellow really popped so I think I am ok, we will see when it dries. If this doesn't work then this will be the color and so be it.


On the bench for today will be panel lines on the wing. There are only a few so should go quickly.




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Old 08-30-2014, 07:06 AM
  #604  
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I'm waving the white flag. Repaint results are the same color as before. I mixed it really good, and I let it sit for 40min before I added the reducer. The same color as before and I even painted I little on the fuselage like I did the other day and it is darker. So I don't know what to do. I have mixed up 6 batches and 3 out of the six are the same color. The only explanation I can think of is the first batch was wrong but I don't believe that. When I painted the fuselage I did two batches and I cant say If the first was the same as the second only that the last coat is the
more yellow. At this point the only option is to paint the wing, if that matches the parts I did today then this is the color. And the only thing I can do is repaint the fuselage (that is not going to happen). So when I mixed up the batch the other day to test the mixing and then brushed it on it matched the yellow. Today I did the same thing and brushed some on and it is the butterscotch. So it is not the spraying. I guess I will have a two tone plane.



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Old 08-30-2014, 08:08 AM
  #605  
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Here is the crazing thing. I just mixed up 2oz and it is yellow like the fuselage, not butterscotch, so I am hitting it with the yellow, cant explain.



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Old 08-30-2014, 08:51 AM
  #606  
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Hallelujah....... Huston we have YELLOW

I cant explain it but as soon as I mixed up the 2oz of paint with the part "B" I could see the difference from the butterscotch color. I tested it next to what I just painted and it was yellow so I went and repainted everything. 2oz was plenty with my new settings.

So now when I do the wing I will make sure the color is yellow before I paint, plus I will give Klass Kote a call on Monday, this is crazy.


I painted some on the fuselage and it matches so fare.

This should match the fuselage, I will check when it dries.





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Old 08-30-2014, 01:35 PM
  #607  
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Default Some comments

Hello,

I am puzzled about the color ( hue ) variation Tony is discussing.
I am assuming he is ( or was ) expecting the color we see in his avatar.

Of course as I said before we the readers are looking at the rendition of our computers and monitors.
We are not seeing the exact hue that Tony is seeing in person.

I went to post #599 and observed the color differences I see between pic #2 ( center of top line ) and pic #3 ( right of top line ).

I understand that those two pictures were taken with the same finish showing the plastic exhaust tubes.
Of course the observed color depends on the content of the source of illumination and to some degree on the illumination level being reflected.

We as readers would have to be beside Tony in his shop to make any judgment so we can only respect Tony's opinion and reports in his postings.

Post #599 is sure interesting to observe.

Zor
Old 08-30-2014, 01:59 PM
  #608  
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I don't want to mess with T/B thread, but have been had the same question in my mind.
cheers bob t
Old 08-30-2014, 02:13 PM
  #609  
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Zor, I am puzzled too. I can mix up some paint and right away I can see if it is going to be yellow or butterscotch. And it is random, one time its good the next it is not. Same can same procedure. In post 599 I had already wet sanded the cowl as I was fitting the muffler exits so it dulled it up but there is a very noticeable difference in the color between the yellow and the butterscotch (that is what I am calling this undesired color). This yellow is very hard to judge even in person let alone in a pic on a computer screen. There are times I see the fuselage and it looks like butterscotch, then the next time it is a nice rich yellow. The light plays big mind games with this color.
The pic I showed before side by side shows the difference best.

theses pic show it.



I don't think it is mixing because I mixed the hell out of it today and still got butterscotch. It could be the way I am mixing, I did 4oz and got butterscotch, then 2oz and got yellow.
But the first paint on the fuselage was 5oz so that doesn't add up.

Then on the next batch just a few turns and it shows the rich yellow right away.

So there is something that is causing the paint to not color up right, right at the start. And I cant figure what it is.


I am not trying to match my avatar. I did order the British R.A.F. Trainer Yellow. I don't know if the Canadian trainer yellow is the same, but the fuselage is the color of my avatar so go figure.

There is one last possibility, and that is that the butterscotch is the true color of this paint and the yellow is the anomaly. But I don't think so.



TB
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:06 PM
  #610  
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Default Zor does not intend to pursue this matter

Originally Posted by TonyBuilder
Zor, I am puzzled too. I can mix up some paint and right away I can see if it is going to be yellow or butterscotch. And it is random, one time its good the next it is not. Same can same procedure. In post 599 I had already wet sanded the cowl as I was fitting the muffler exits so it dulled it up but there is a very noticeable difference in the color between the yellow and the butterscotch (that is what I am calling this undesired color). This yellow is very hard to judge even in person let alone in a pic on a computer screen. There are times I see the fuselage and it looks like butterscotch, then the next time it is a nice rich yellow. The light plays big mind games with this color.
The pic I showed before side by side shows the difference best.

theses pic show it.



I don't think it is mixing because I mixed the hell out of it today and still got butterscotch. It could be the way I am mixing, I did 4oz and got butterscotch, then 2oz and got yellow.
But the first paint on the fuselage was 5oz so that doesn't add up.

Then on the next batch just a few turns and it shows the rich yellow right away.

So there is something that is causing the paint to not color up right, right at the start. And I cant figure what it is.


I am not trying to match my avatar. I did order the British R.A.F. Trainer Yellow. I don't know if the Canadian trainer yellow is the same, but the fuselage is the color of my avatar so go figure.

There is one last possibility, and that is that the butterscotch is the true color of this paint and the yellow is the anomaly. But I don't think so.



TB
Tony,

I do not intend to pursue this matter to avoid someone claiming I am trying to take control of the thread.

I wrote some comments as I felt qualified to discuss the results of photograhy.
How am I qualified?

I have 22 boxes of 35 mm Kodachrome and Kodacolor slides each containinng up to 140 color slides all processed personally in my dark room.

While with RCA ( Radio Corporation of America ) I was for a while visiting many TV station to train their camera operators as to 'how to set up the TV cameras for best picture rendition. It involved not only camera adjustments but also environment such as the kind of illumination and intensities to illuminate the scenes being broadcast from interior locations. That does not involves outdoor daylight sunny scenes but it does involve evening or night scenes and of course camera adjustments.

I have here a wing that has large yellow areas and large green areas. I will not post some of these pictures in this thread but I can say that the same green often appears more bluish than green.
I think it has to do with incandescence lights versus fluorescent illumination. The hue of the color may also vary due to the camera response variation of the color data ( three colors only being mixed ) as the illumination level changes. Typically a lower illumination level on the object tends to darken it while the lens may open larger to maintain average overall level.

A camera does not see a scenery the same way our minds interpret our eye's vision.

Enough said . . . . I will not return with the subject unless you have specific questions.

I only wish I had your dexterity, your patience and overall attention to details.

Best regards from Zor.
Old 08-30-2014, 04:08 PM
  #611  
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Daily progress.

So the day started out stressful and full of disappointment and despair.

After mixing 4oz of the new can of paint and painting everything just to find out it was the same butterscotch color as before.

So I was looking at the 3/4oz test batch I mixed up yesterday (this stuff has a very long pot life) and thinking " what the hell is going on" This little batch is perfect yellow, why is the new one I just did butterscotch.?
I said screw it and mixed up 2oz to see what would happen. As soon as I started mixing it I could see the difference, it was the desired yellow!

So It was only 2 or 3 hr since I shot the last stuff and recoat is best within 4-6 hr so I set everything up while the paint was cooking.
I waited 40min then added the reducer and started to shoot. I could see right away this was much more yellow then the last stuff

I painted it all with just 2oz (2oz of paint, 6oz total) and even had some left over.
I brushed some on the fuselage to confirm again that it was the right yellow and it was so I left everything to dry.
I would peak in every so often, some times it looked like the butterscotch, and even the fuselage was looking like that.
Then it would look yellow. So this stuff was really messing with my mind

After a few hr I pulled the fuselage out and pulled all the tape mask off.

First was the canopy.... yes.... it matches



The finish was really nice to, I am getting this paint gun down.
I am using half the paint I was at first.



Next was the ruder. It matched as well.
I tried the elevator and it matched, but I did not take a pic.



The cowl came out great too I haven't put the doors on. I will do that tomorrow but I think they are fine too.



So now on to the wing. I needed to fit the wing and make any adjustments to it before I start to paint it.

A little sanding here and there. I also made sure the ailerons and flaps all fitted without binding and that I had plenty of room for paint.





The yellow in the sun, nice and bright






TB
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:04 AM
  #612  
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On the bench for today, wing panel lines. The wing is ready for panel lines and the last item I needed to install was the Pitot tube.

I glued in a brass sleeve for the brass Pitot tube to slide back and forth in.
This allows the tube to be pushed in for transportation and for storage.

I piece of silicon tubing around the sleeve holds the tube in place. It then can coil up into the wing when pushed in.





TB
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:14 AM
  #613  
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I was wondering how long that brass tube would last. Lol. That's really smart being able to tuck it inside for transport. Good stuff.
Old 08-31-2014, 04:15 AM
  #614  
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Originally Posted by stevegauth30
I was wondering how long that brass tube would last. Lol. That's really smart being able to tuck it inside for transport. Good stuff.

I will keep an extra one in my field box for when it does get bent, and it will. I can just pull it out and replace it.



TB
Old 08-31-2014, 06:58 AM
  #615  
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Morning progress

I laid out the panel lines and the rivet lines too.
I like to get it all laid out to see how it is going to look and to make any adjustments.

I use blue tape, this way if I don't like it I just remove and start over. I don't like a bunch of unused line cluttering my work
Once I am happy with the layout I just pull the tape and place it on the other side and mark that side.
Then I use them on the top of the wing and get exact transfer of my lines.
I will keep this for after I prime and need to remark.



On panel lines I will use a sharpie, and for now on the rivet lines. I know it can bleed threw and that is ok as it will show me where the lines are.

After white primer I will use a pencil.




I got lucky and ran into Glenn Ryle a former Top Gun competitor and builder at the auto store.
We had a long discussion about prepping for panel lines and he recommended the Dupli-color high build primer.
I have used it before and really liked it so I got a gallon.

I am canning the rattle can primer also so I picked up this primer. It works great for filling and doing panel lines.
Should be more then enough for the wing and to do Angie plus any other future project.
I will hit the wing with this, do a light wet sanding to knock down some of the build on the panel lines then do the white and sand to release the tape.




TB
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Last edited by TonyBuilder; 08-31-2014 at 09:11 AM.
Old 08-31-2014, 09:06 AM
  #616  
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Panel lines are done, all masked off and ready for paint.

May paint today if it is not to windy.










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Old 08-31-2014, 10:21 AM
  #617  
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Default Hue changes with illumination source.

Originally Posted by TonyBuilder
Panel lines are done, all masked off and ready for paint.

May paint today if it is not to windy.


TB
Hi Tony,

I see for the first time ( I beleive ) some fluorescent light fixtures on the wall of your working area.

It appears evident on my computer monitor that the two fixtures have fluorescent tubes coatings of different spectrum ( like soft white or daylight or whatever is marked at the ends of the tubes ) with the result that the observed hue of the painted parts would change slightly depending on the relative position of your observation.

I do not have to break my head anymore to understand what you have observed on an overall basis.

Reading back ( previous postings ) you have commented that the amount of mixing you do ( did ) was not the reason for the variation denoted as yellow and butterscotch ( a convenient term ).

The differences you illustrated earlier using two different parts in the same photo remain unexplained and I think it can only be due to different proportions of the pigments. I do not know the kind of mixing you have to do.

I am sure you will do some tests before painting the whole wing area.

Wishing you best success.

Zor
Old 08-31-2014, 12:40 PM
  #618  
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I have to agree with Zor here (wow, didn't think I would ever say that did ya??? ). The light that you look at your paint colors under can play a huge role in how they appear, and florescent lights are about the worst for throwing off what you see. I like to get outside and look at the plane in natural light when I'm looking at how the colors have come out when painting.

Ken

Last edited by RCKen; 08-31-2014 at 01:15 PM.
Old 08-31-2014, 01:51 PM
  #619  
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Zor, Ken, yes the light plays tricks on you and all my determinations on if I had the correct color where done in the natural day light. The difference in color is very apparent to the naked eye. Most of the observations of different color from one moment to another where, as I have stated, caused by light, and the yellow mind game In a life long ago I was married to a pro photographer and I know what light can do to a pic and other objects.
As to the mixing, this paint is an equal part of two, part "A" and part "B" I cant explain being I mix them all the same, currently the smaller batches (1-2oz of part A and 1-2oz of part B with 1-2os of reducer) have been the yellow and the larger batches of 4-5oz have been the butterscotch. But the very first batches that I painted the fuselage where both 5oz batches, and the result was the yellow. I did keep a memento of the butterscotch (just so folks don't think I am crazy). The insides of the cowl engine doors are the butterscotch, and one can tell right away.

I have been mixing with portions of paint from small cups (1oz cups) and when I do the wing I will use a pint mixing cup that has the 1-1-1 formula on it so that I get as close to exact measurements, but again the first batch was not done this way and it came out right.


So I am chalking it down as Yellow is one hard paint to work with. Yes Zor I will test the paint before I spray the wing, if it doesn't present as the yellow I will not use it, you can tell right away. I will mix up another until I get yellow or run out of paint.



TB
Old 08-31-2014, 02:05 PM
  #620  
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Ok, so this is the part I like the best. After all the hard work slaving over a model and it is time to put it together.

The fuel tanks are in, batteries are in, servos are in, everything but the wing is painted.
I am gluing the ruder and elevator in, I will be working on the canopy installing the remainder of the glass.
Engine is installed and I am getting ready to do the overlay colors.
The first and only color is the black on the top front of the fuselage from the spinner to the canopy screen.

This is the exciting part



I did paint the primer on the wing to seal the panel lines. I don't like them sitting around so as soon as I install them I paint.
This Dupli-color specialty high build primer is bad ass. I mixed up 12oz and sprayed the wing.
The primer dries in a min or two so you don't have to stop or wait, just keep painting until your out of paint.

I don't know how much was on so I wet sanded this after noon (you only have to wait 30min before sanding) to see how high the build was. I need to hit it one more wet coat.

Then I will wet sand and wait for the white primer.



TB
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Last edited by TonyBuilder; 08-31-2014 at 02:09 PM.
Old 08-31-2014, 03:44 PM
  #621  
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The elevator is glued in and hooked up.

Looks great and smooth as silk.



We got throw




I will be detailing the center section when I do the wing and will paint it with the wing.





Stitching came out great


.

Don't you just love that rich yellow
This is the finish I have been going for, shine, shine , shine.......



Even this pic has some hint of butterscotch from the wing to the fuselage



post video

http://youtu.be/rpAuH1SHJjE
TB
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:55 PM
  #622  
Zor
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Hello everyone,

Here is a phenomena related to the yellow color rendition.

Both pictures are of the same hinge and illuminated with the same source but at a different angle so that the hinge has a shadow. The light is coming from the left producing a shadow.

We see similar occurence in Tony's recent posting.

Also notice that the green has a bluish tendency from one pic to the other.

Zor
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Last edited by Zor; 08-31-2014 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Added last line.
Old 09-01-2014, 01:33 AM
  #623  
TonyBuilder
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On the bench for today, install the remaining glass on the canopy, finish installing gear in the fuselage. I have engine heat sensor, and RPM sensor I need to mount. Plus the ignition module, fuel dot and fuel vent/overflow.

I have to still paint the cockpit so I cant install the instrument panels yet. I will mask off the front for the overlay black color for a shoot tomorrow morning.

I was hoping to have my stencils by now and shoot the black lettering but the wing gets RCAF 671 on the bottom of the wing so I will do that and the RCAF 671 on the fuselage then.

The wing gets another coat or two of primer as I wait on the KK white primer so I can do the rivets.

Still having trouble with my second receiver so I may trouble shoot that today too.


I weighed the fuselage and with all the gear it is about 13-14lb so that just leaves the wing. I am guessing with all the paint I am and have put on I will be more in the 26-27 lb range, fine with me bring it on, who's afraid of heavy metal?

I keep forgetting to weigh before I paint to see how mush the paint adds to the weight. So I will weigh the wing before I do the white KK and the yellow paint.


TB
Old 09-01-2014, 05:37 AM
  #624  
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The mornings progress.


On the canopy the two glass pains are bubbled out for the second pilots seat.
This is a key detail that is unique to the chipmunk canopy.
So I asked Chad Veich to make me up some bubble windows.



They came out great



All the other glass windows are in and the canopy is done short of some final detailing.
I need to paint the inside frame white and do a little more detailing, then a good cleaning.




The way I designed the canopy frame with the carbon fiber rods framing the window frames lock in the plastic. I just cut them to fit and snap them in.

Thin CA was used to tack them in, got one drop on the glass and another smear, so I will be polishing that out later with the Novus system cleaners.




The canopy came out really nice, thanks Chad




I hit the wing with a second coat of primer. I forgot to change the nozzle to the primer nozzle 2.2 the first time, I had the 1.4 in.
It sprays much better with the 2.2. I mixed up 8oz and reduced it and sprayed away.

I am experimenting with a wing painting jig that will allow me to rotate the wing from top to bottom.
For the primer I just used a clamp but for the paint I will add an arm and a swivel so I can flip it from top to TE to bottom.
For me having the surface at a slight angle instead of completely flat works best.




So the wing is drying and I will wet sand it and make it ready for the white primer, that should be here later this week.
I am so glade I caned the rattle can, so much easier and a better job as the result.




Onward.



TB
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Last edited by TonyBuilder; 09-01-2014 at 05:41 AM.
Old 09-01-2014, 02:04 PM
  #625  
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Took a break today and did some grunt work.


I have been wanting to make my transport and storage cradle for the chippie.
I don't like to transport or store a panted plane siting on foam or any other surface.

So I make a cradle that fits in where the wing would and mounts the same, with the wing dowels and the wing bolts.

The only part of the plane that touches the cradle is the wing dowels and the wing bolt mounting plate.

I can attach this to the fuselage, then secure it in my trailer for storage or transport.
Then at the field I just remove the plane and cradle as a whole and assemble the plane on the bench.




I did this for the prototype of Angie and it worked very well.



I got to the wing painting jig too.
Now I can rotate from top of wing, to TE (hinge pockets) and then the bottom of the wing, or anywhere in between.

This will make painting a breeze.



I can use this on other parts too.





When I want to store the wing so it can cure overnight I can just place it in the trailer and forget about it




I have been doing stuff like mounting the igniting and switches, the fun stuff



TB
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Last edited by TonyBuilder; 09-01-2014 at 02:06 PM.

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