Building a scale 1/4 scale Super Cub from Balsa J3 kit
11-22-2014, 09:35 AM
#178
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Leroy
11-22-2014, 09:43 AM
#179
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11-22-2014, 11:28 AM
#181
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Leroy, I ran across this while doing research on my L-4 - you probably have it but thought I would post a link to it.
http://www.supercubproject.com/downl...ts_Catalog.pdf
Keith
http://www.supercubproject.com/downl...ts_Catalog.pdf
Keith
11-22-2014, 08:26 PM
#184
Thread Starter
Keith I did down load a lot from the supercubproject web pages and I like some of the stuff on your offering so thanks for that.
Enjoyment, "oh yeah", this one is like redesigning the whole set of plans, I have never seen such a mess, crocked lines, out of square and parts don't fit following the plans. I'm not going to address this with Balsa USA, if they cared they wouldn't have put these plans in the box of wood in the first place. Wing would be 109" following the plan, they have been corrected and has the flaps drawn on them now. It's all laid out with the trailing edges of flaps & ailerons much like the real plane drawings.
All in all I will have a super cub in the end and yes it is enjoyable fixing a mess I was provided,
Shame on Balsa USA, 
Leroy
Enjoyment, "oh yeah", this one is like redesigning the whole set of plans, I have never seen such a mess, crocked lines, out of square and parts don't fit following the plans. I'm not going to address this with Balsa USA, if they cared they wouldn't have put these plans in the box of wood in the first place. Wing would be 109" following the plan, they have been corrected and has the flaps drawn on them now. It's all laid out with the trailing edges of flaps & ailerons much like the real plane drawings.
All in all I will have a super cub in the end and yes it is enjoyable fixing a mess I was provided,
Shame on Balsa USA, Leroy
11-24-2014, 08:49 AM
#187
Thread Starter
One thing that bothers me is getting information here on anything, getting a definitive answer on a specific question about different techniques and products is hard to come by, it turns into a buy, test and see for yourself.
Leroy
11-24-2014, 09:11 AM
#188
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What do you want to know?
I had a similar experience some years ago with Solartex that is why I dropped it. I personally don't like the dope method used in years past, at least the few brain cells left don't. Looked into the epoxy types such as Klass Kote but with the mixing and don't mix more than needed and such I decided that way was not for me. About the only thing left was Stits, so I tried it on a 1/5 scale Waco build and fell in love. The fabric is extremely easy to apply. Same goes for the filling of the much tighter weave, which was much more difficult with Koveral. They are a little bit limited in colors but the paint is superb, flows well and covers extremely well.
Of course the is always the latex method of which I will not do for personal reasons.
Anyway, I have been using Stits for numerous years and could possibly answer your question.
I had a similar experience some years ago with Solartex that is why I dropped it. I personally don't like the dope method used in years past, at least the few brain cells left don't. Looked into the epoxy types such as Klass Kote but with the mixing and don't mix more than needed and such I decided that way was not for me. About the only thing left was Stits, so I tried it on a 1/5 scale Waco build and fell in love. The fabric is extremely easy to apply. Same goes for the filling of the much tighter weave, which was much more difficult with Koveral. They are a little bit limited in colors but the paint is superb, flows well and covers extremely well.
Of course the is always the latex method of which I will not do for personal reasons.
Anyway, I have been using Stits for numerous years and could possibly answer your question.
11-24-2014, 12:37 PM
#189
Thread Starter
Robert I watched you put the fabric on your plane and seen some of the effects of the power of the shrink. Reading Stits instructions using the Poly-tack, it states to do about 12" at a time so it doesn't dry too fast, (hence not stick) that method does not appeal to me. Then there is Stix-it ? but would it work for initial adhesion and allow taping over it with Solartex for the ease of doing it, same for the phony stitches that I had good luck with on the spacewalker. Having experience with linen and dope may not help because polyester is a whole different product however Stits said dope could be used, so at this point it's going to need a test bed of sorts to see what works best for me. Then comes the filling the weave, Poly-fill ?, I don't know what it is let alone the sealer. I use automotive base/clear coats and what ever I use has to be compatible with it. So it's easy to see I have a lot of questions and concerns. If this was a full blown plane there would be no problem, just do it EAA /FAA acceptable way and be done with it which is the way you did yours. I really think there is an easier way for a model, just not sure what it is.
I have read where others have used this and that product but never posted a step by step process, that's the part where information is hard to come buy. There is no doubt about your process being the best and at the same time thinking what other products will produce the same results using Poly-Lite fabric. I'm not lazy and will do the work, with this fabric your going to have to do it, my biggest question is options of the products to do it with.
Robert your in sites on the matter aside from going with Stits system through out would interest me as well as other successful ways you have heard of would at least give me something to think about. appreciate your willingness to help and thank you.
Leroy
I have read where others have used this and that product but never posted a step by step process, that's the part where information is hard to come buy. There is no doubt about your process being the best and at the same time thinking what other products will produce the same results using Poly-Lite fabric. I'm not lazy and will do the work, with this fabric your going to have to do it, my biggest question is options of the products to do it with.
Robert your in sites on the matter aside from going with Stits system through out would interest me as well as other successful ways you have heard of would at least give me something to think about. appreciate your willingness to help and thank you.
Leroy
11-24-2014, 01:29 PM
#190
A search here on RCU using "fabric covering" will get you at least 1000 (1K in metric) results. There are two many for any one person to relate back to an interested person that could look them up themselves.
Sincerely, Richard
Cub Brotherhood #187; Sig 1/4 Cub, H9 100 inch (Gen 1) Cub, GB Anniv Cub
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
Kadet Brotherhood #96; Mk l/II Kadet, Kadet Junior,
Sig Kougar, Sig 1/4 Spacewalker II
Sincerely, Richard
Cub Brotherhood #187; Sig 1/4 Cub, H9 100 inch (Gen 1) Cub, GB Anniv Cub
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
Kadet Brotherhood #96; Mk l/II Kadet, Kadet Junior,
Sig Kougar, Sig 1/4 Spacewalker II
11-24-2014, 01:38 PM
#191
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I will take your concerns in order,
#1 The polytak sucks for our application, at least that was my experience with it, just to messy and slow. I use Stix-it for the initial attachment of the fabric, only on the perimeter.
#2 The polybrush is the adhesive in which anywhere the fabric touches wood it will get adhered. The polybrush also fills the weave, depending on the finish desired as to the number of coats. For a glass smooth finish three coats does it up real well. This polybrush will not effect the airframe in any other way such as warping it, which most of the water based products will do.
#3 As for mixing products, well, most don't like doing it and I am one of them. In my opinion mixing products and techniques is just asking for something to go wrong.
When mixing components one risk something not working well with another but not knowing it until it is to late, over the longterm.
One also risk not having a consistent finish throughout by adding in another type of material, such as Solartex tapes. Many people find there way with mixing all these thing and if that suits you I sincerely hope you find your way.
In my 40 years of building I have come to realize that sticking with one way, a way one likes, and a way that yields excellent results everytime is priceless. And in those years I tried all sorts of mixing of different products such as dopes, polyurethane, water based Poly, latex, acrylic, epoxies, resins of all sorts, and have never been as happy as I have with Stits. It simply suits my needs and my abilities,
And I apologise for being long winded and for not offering up what I think will and will not mix together. But I feel that in some way we all are friends on RCU and I would never advise a friend of something I would not do myself, such as mixing products. My advice is find a system and use that entire system, which ever one that may be.
Robert
#1 The polytak sucks for our application, at least that was my experience with it, just to messy and slow. I use Stix-it for the initial attachment of the fabric, only on the perimeter.
#2 The polybrush is the adhesive in which anywhere the fabric touches wood it will get adhered. The polybrush also fills the weave, depending on the finish desired as to the number of coats. For a glass smooth finish three coats does it up real well. This polybrush will not effect the airframe in any other way such as warping it, which most of the water based products will do.
#3 As for mixing products, well, most don't like doing it and I am one of them. In my opinion mixing products and techniques is just asking for something to go wrong.
When mixing components one risk something not working well with another but not knowing it until it is to late, over the longterm.
One also risk not having a consistent finish throughout by adding in another type of material, such as Solartex tapes. Many people find there way with mixing all these thing and if that suits you I sincerely hope you find your way.
In my 40 years of building I have come to realize that sticking with one way, a way one likes, and a way that yields excellent results everytime is priceless. And in those years I tried all sorts of mixing of different products such as dopes, polyurethane, water based Poly, latex, acrylic, epoxies, resins of all sorts, and have never been as happy as I have with Stits. It simply suits my needs and my abilities,
And I apologise for being long winded and for not offering up what I think will and will not mix together. But I feel that in some way we all are friends on RCU and I would never advise a friend of something I would not do myself, such as mixing products. My advice is find a system and use that entire system, which ever one that may be.
Robert
11-24-2014, 02:10 PM
#192
Thread Starter
Thank you Robert , that pretty much sums it up and it runs along the lines of my thinking. I have painted a lot in my life and have learned a lot about compatibility of a lot of products and many of those products have changed over the years. I see a number of products some of the guys are using but don't think they are for me. What it really comes to is working with a fabric I have never used and the steps to finish it to my expectations, something you have already done. Believe it or not, you said a lot without saying too much and it's helpful, you didn't say to go dig it up yourself.
Thanks a lot, Leroy
Thanks a lot, Leroy
11-24-2014, 02:26 PM
#193
Thread Starter
Having to build the wings at this point they needed some changes to the wing trailing & leading aileron surfaces to comply with the scale features of the real plane drawings. Flaps have a bit different profile and will get the same treatment (getting made before they go in the construction) it's easier to form them first rather than after it's built. I have more ribs to cut to add to the kit ones which I can use, more on that later. Flaps and ailerons will be built separate from the main wing.
Leroy
Leroy
11-24-2014, 02:27 PM
#194
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You are welcome Leroy.
If there was anything else as simple to use that produced the same great results with the same amount of effort I would give it a shot. But, I have not found it.
If there was anything else as simple to use that produced the same great results with the same amount of effort I would give it a shot. But, I have not found it.
11-25-2014, 04:31 AM
#196
For the hinges it appears that some Super Cubs have fries ailerons and a similar hing for the flaps.
This style of hing is very easy to do and you can make the control surfases removable. Having the control surfaces removable is a great advantage in building and finishing.
TB
This style of hing is very easy to do and you can make the control surfases removable. Having the control surfaces removable is a great advantage in building and finishing.
TB
11-25-2014, 09:20 AM
#198
Thread Starter
Leroy
11-25-2014, 09:25 AM
#199
Thread Starter
For the hinges it appears that some Super Cubs have fries ailerons and a similar hing for the flaps.
This style of hing is very easy to do and you can make the control surfases removable. Having the control surfaces removable is a great advantage in building and finishing.
TB
This style of hing is very easy to do and you can make the control surfases removable. Having the control surfaces removable is a great advantage in building and finishing.
TB
Leroy
11-25-2014, 09:35 AM
#200
Thread Starter
OKC Mike, your right about that, Robert has a wealth of experience on most anything RC and he's very nice about helping if you just ask, I wish more would come forward on some of these builds, there is a lot of experience out there that would help many of us. A few yr's. back there was a number of them that are no longer with us and they are missed by many.
Leroy
Leroy