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Where have all the builders gone

Old 01-23-2015, 03:02 PM
  #151  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by Skycat80
Sure! Dynamic balsa is the name of the shop. He also makes amazing custom cockpits for large scale birds. He's got just about anything you'd want. A lot of large scale birds as well.
I got a kit from them just this year. Great product. The foam wings were cut perfectly. Another service they offer.
Old 01-23-2015, 03:45 PM
  #152  
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I still build but I have ARF's as well. I just don't seem to have the time that I used to have
Old 01-23-2015, 04:09 PM
  #153  
Leroy Gardner
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Originally Posted by jr-dub64
Besides Leroy , What else could we do when the weather is yucky outside like today. Winter is a good time to be in the shop building and stocking up planes to fly come Spring. Love it ! John.
Hi John, shucks we are almost neighbors, hardly ever see Spokane in the location of poster. Your right, if it wasn't for building RC I probably wouldn't be fit to live with. Where do you fly, I joined Silver Hills R/C Flyers at Athol, ID this year, had enough of CAMS after 8 yrs.

Might see ya around,

Leroy
Old 01-23-2015, 05:49 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
As soon as we find out where all the builders have gone it might help find out where all the kits have gone. ,,,, Lets see what we can come up with and why there seam to be a lot less builders these days which might explain why there is a lot less of several other things also.

I know many builders have been lost as a result of old age and there are less and less followers to fill their shoes, that can't be the only reason "GO for it".

Leroy
Find the builders and you will find the kits. Builders are hoarding the kits. Can't really blame them for doing that, and they have more kits than they can build in a lifetime.


As for me, I spend all my free time chasing women. I spend half of my money on women and booze. The other half I just waste.




Here's a listing I found on Craigslist a few months ago ...

Selling my collection of kits amassed over the past 25 years--many are no longer available and rare. Most kits have been stored in climate controlled storage since new. Perfect opportunity for collectors or small hobby store operations. Even kit parts that are over 20 years old look like new (though the boxes may have some fading).

Individual kits are available for sale locally (see price below, shipping is extra).

Email me for pictures of individual kit boxes to see actual photos to verify condition.

10% Discount (off prices shown below) if buying 5 or more kits
20% Discount (off prices shown below) if buying 10 or more kits and picking up locally

Balsa USA Enforcer - $119
Balsa USA Force One - $119
Balsa USA North Star - $119
Direct Connection F-20 Tigershark - SOLD
Dynaflite Super Decathlon 1.08-1.8 - $159
Goldberg Freedom 20 - $95
Goldberg Freedom 20 - $95
Goldberg Obsession 3D ARF (Very Rare) - $349
Goldberg Obsession 3D ARF (Very Rare - in plain box) - $309
Goldberg Protégé 60 - $119
Goldberg Protégé 60 - $119
Goldberg Tiger .60 - $99
Goldberg Tiger .60 - $99
Goldberg Tiger .60 Deluxe w/ Retracts - $349
Great Planes Decathlon .40 - $174
Great Planes Extra 330L 1/3 Scale (w/ Stock and Upgraded Fiberglass cowl) - 2 Large Boxes - $399
Great Planes Extra 330L 1/3 Scale (w/ Stock and Upgraded Fiberglass cowl) - 2 Large Boxes - $399
Great Planes F-14 - $274
Great Planes F-14 - $274
Great Planes F-15 - $274
Great Planes F4 Phantom - $399
Great Planes Learjet .40 - $199
Great Planes Little Toni ARF (Very Rare) - $299
Great Planes Patriot - $199
Great Planes Patriot XL .60 - $259
Great Planes Patriot XL .60 (Tail Construction Started) - $239
Great Planes Rapture .40 - $149
Great Planes Reactor GP ARF - $249
Great Planes RV-4 - $99
Great Planes Super Skybolt 60 - $349
Great Planes T-Craft - $79
Great Planes Tracer 40 - $149
Great Planes Tracer 40 - $149
Great Planes Trainer 40 (Vintage - Extremely Rare) - $249
Great Planes Trainer 60 (Vintage - Extremely Rare) - $299
Great Planes U-Can-Do .60 ARF - $199
Great Planes Ultra Sport .40 - $99
Great Planes Ultra Sport 1000 - $250
Great Planes Ultra Sport 1000 - $250
Great Planes Ultra Sport 1000 - $250
Great Planes Ultra Sport 1000 (Tail Construction Started) - $230
Great Planes Venus II ARF (Very Rare) - $299
Hostetler Cessna 182 (Cornell Michaels Custom Cut Kit) - $399
Midwest Aerosport .20 (Vintage - Very Rare) - $179
Midwest Aerosport .60 (Vintage - Extremely Rare) - $224
Midwest Citabria .60 - $224
Midwest Extra 300S 27% - $224
Midwest Extra 300S 27% - $224
Midwest Extra 300XS 27% (w/ Stock and Upgraded Fiberglass Cowl) - $399
Midwest Hots II (Vintage - Very Rare) - $199
Midwest Hots II (Vintage - Very Rare) - $199
Midwest Super Hots (Vintage - Very Rare) - $249
Midwest Super Hots (Vintage - Very Rare) - $249
Morris Balsa Nova 120 (Extremely Rare) - $299
Morris Hot Hots (Very Rare) - $149
Quality Aircraft Wild Thing - $119
Sig 4 Star 120 - $169
Sig 4 Star 40 - $99
Sig 4 Star 60 - $139
Sig Morrisey Bravo (Extemely Rare) - $499
Top Flite Bonanza Interior Kit - $39
Top Flite Cessna 182 .60 - $199
Top Flite DC-3 Twin .40 - $199
Top Flite F4U Corsair .60 - $159
Top Flite FW-190 Plans and Manual ONLY - $199
Top Flite P-39 .60 - $199
Top Flite P-40E .60 - $159
Top Flite P-47 .60 - $159
Top Flite P-51 .60 - $159
Top Flite Piper Arrow II .60 (Very Rare) - $325
Top Flite Sea Fury .60 (Rare) - $399
Top Flite Spitfire .60 - $159
Top Flite T-34B Mentor .60 - $174
Ultra Hots Short Kit - $119
Ultra Hots Short Kit - $119

Last edited by BobbyMcGee; 01-23-2015 at 05:52 PM.
Old 01-23-2015, 06:20 PM
  #155  
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To say we are a dying breed is quite a literal statement.
Each and every year I see builder friends leave us, both online and off. To many changes in societies mentality for people to have the desire to build, instant and easy replace pride, selfworth, personal accomplishment. Most of the builders are of an older venue and grew up with being taught the ideas of self reliance, pride in the individual, self worth, and patience to do thing's right. Now days it is not the individual but the whole, pride has been replaced with a it don't matter, and self reliance with someone else will take care of it. I truly feel sorry for future generations of whom will be robotic in nature, an individual with very little abilities nor much care to have them. It's almost that bad now!

Last edited by acerc; 01-23-2015 at 06:22 PM.
Old 01-23-2015, 06:30 PM
  #156  
Steve S. Helland
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I am THE builder...and I have all the kits. There you go!
Old 01-23-2015, 06:38 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by jeffo
A lot of good builders are buying ARF's,that is what happened in my club.One of the best builders in my club told me,"it's 95% what I want at 1/2 the price,it's not worth it.jeffo
On the bold, that about sums it up here too. When it gets to the point I want to fly something I can't find in ARF form, then I'll build it, without hesitation. Used to be if I wanted to fly, I was forced to build. MANY planes came off my building board over the last hundred years or so. Still are. Just not as often.

This is a lot like full scale too. Many could never afford to buy a full scale. Kit's aren't cheap, but are often much more affordable. So it would follow (for some) that if you want to fly, you're going to build.... -Al
Old 01-23-2015, 07:04 PM
  #158  
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Well, thought it was about time I chimed in. I was encouraged by my uncle to buy a “wooden airplane kit that could really fly” when I was about 10 years old (Guillow’s I think). I have to admit, even though I had built many plastic models, this particular model was so frustrating that it brought tears to my eyes. But, I didn’t give up, and a few days later I had my first “scratch built” airplane. I couldn’t figure out the plans and I couldn’t cut the balsa along the inked lines (no laser cut parts in this kit). So I made it work. This was about 43 years ago…
From that point I got pretty good at balsa and tissue models, flew Cox and Testor’s control line planes, and finally built a Hobby Shack trainer with a Cirrus 4 channel and a Thunder Tiger .20. Crashed it hard on the maiden flight, still have the engine. Never did learn to fly. Along came a wife and kids…


Fast forward to about 8 years ago. Bought an ARF Cub on e-bay, borrowed a Real Flight Nexstar trainer simulator, and uh ohhh, I learned to fly RCs! Well, it was time to start building again and once again I am hooked! Just finished up a Bridi Bree-Zee Bipe and looking forward to starting a Twin Air .20 next.


Thanks to all of the guys here on RCU who have encouraged me and also taught me about these marvelous flying machines.
I’ll be building for a while longer….


Ben
Old 01-23-2015, 07:04 PM
  #159  
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I love kits,can't always get'm,but plans you can always find.To make something from a hand-full of sticks and sheets is a rush!
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:30 PM
  #160  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by acerc
To say we are a dying breed is quite a literal statement.
Each and every year I see builder friends leave us, both online and off. To many changes in societies mentality for people to have the desire to build, instant and easy replace pride, selfworth, personal accomplishment. Most of the builders are of an older venue and grew up with being taught the ideas of self reliance, pride in the individual, self worth, and patience to do thing's right. Now days it is not the individual but the whole, pride has been replaced with a it don't matter, and self reliance with someone else will take care of it. I truly feel sorry for future generations of whom will be robotic in nature, an individual with very little abilities nor much care to have them. It's almost that bad now!
+ 1
Old 01-23-2015, 08:45 PM
  #161  
Leroy Gardner
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Originally Posted by acerc
To say we are a dying breed is quite a literal statement.
Each and every year I see builder friends leave us, both online and off. To many changes in societies mentality for people to have the desire to build, instant and easy replace pride, selfworth, personal accomplishment. Most of the builders are of an older venue and grew up with being taught the ideas of self reliance, pride in the individual, self worth, and patience to do thing's right. Now days it is not the individual but the whole, pride has been replaced with a it don't matter, and self reliance with someone else will take care of it. I truly feel sorry for future generations of whom will be robotic in nature, an individual with very little abilities nor much care to have them. It's almost that bad now!
What I been saying all along, sad but true.
Old 01-24-2015, 12:49 AM
  #162  
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Gentlemen! Some of you might be interested in this.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gold...tic-model.html
Old 01-24-2015, 06:08 AM
  #163  
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Over the last 3 years i have sold off around 75 or so nitro oand gas planes that were hanging in my basement plus all the kits i have collected in 40 years . You dont want to build half of them anyways cause now they are collector items and no longer produced . I went all electric and none of my children care about rc planes or kits so i did not want the kits sold at a garage sale when iam gone for 5 bucks a piece when i take that last dirt nap. lol I saved just enough planes to keep me busy updating them and a good selection to pick out what to fly this week. I dont miss any of the planes or kits and now have plenty of room for the new ones i build. I see guys familys selling off his nice rc stuff at cheap prices and do what with the money buy video games for the grand kids? lmao not me! joe

Last edited by joebahl; 01-24-2015 at 06:10 AM.
Old 01-24-2015, 06:31 AM
  #164  
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I don't comment often, but this has been a good thread. I'm glad to see this thread is staying civil, so far. The Builders VS ARF assemblers discussion usually turns into a "if your not a builder, you fly a piece of junk, ARFs are junk, etc", but I haven't seen that here (yet).

To get right to the point, I think the reason Kits are getting scarce is lack of demand. Businesses are going to stock what sells. The quality of ARFs is pretty darned good these days and that's where the demand is. I know the quality isn't always "perfect", but I'd be willing to bet a lot of "kit" built airplanes aren't perfect either (no offense intended).

Where have all the "builders" gone? A lot of them are at the field, flying ARFs. Older members of the hobby had no choice but to build, and many found they enjoy the building just as much or more than flying. People entering the hobby in the ARF era only "need" to build a kit if they desire an aircraft not offered as an ARF, and then may discover they enjoy building.

So, as Anthony stated (Hi Anthony), there are three types of hobbyists, Flyers, Builders/Flyers, and Scale builders.

I am in the "flyers" category.
I have built kits. I found that because of the huge amount of time and effort put in to building the aircraft, I was scared to death to fly them. Knees knocking on every flight, knot in the stomach. Just not "fun".

In the 90s, ARFs were not very good quality, but today's are very good. I fly the snot out of my ARFs, (blenders, tumbling, etc) and have never had a structural failure (well, at least as long as I keep from nose first, full throttle landings).

One poster responded about the satisfaction he derived knowing he built it and there is a piece of him in every aircraft he built. I fully understand, respect, and admire that.

I derive satisfaction in flying knife edge down the length of the runway, full throttle, one foot off the ground, or pulling out of a "blender" just in time, or flying so slow, at the edge of a stall that the aircraft is drifting backwards in a 10 MPH wind. I could never risk an aircraft I spent a year building, that's why I fly ARFs.
Old 01-24-2015, 06:31 AM
  #165  
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Hej, I´m 75, still doing some building but nowaday gone over to work more with small Engines milling and so. Have to many planes hanging from the ceiling. First sight stopped me from flying then it was a hip and a knee. Hope there are nothing more to stop me now. Love to fly and build but no more planes thou it is more fun to go from a drawing then ARF. Many of my friends have stopped flying due to high age and past away. Said to say.
Ulf
Old 01-24-2015, 06:37 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
As soon as we find out where all the builders have gone it might help find out where all the kits have gone. Everyone has an opinion about almost everything but sometimes it's hard to get a good solid answer about anything. Lets see what we can come up with and why there seam to be a lot less builders these days which might explain why there is a lot less of several other things also.

I know many builders have been lost as a result of old age and there are less and less followers to fill their shoes, that can't be the only reason "GO for it".

Leroy
From Lawrence B:"...All the builders have gone to R/C Scale Builder,"...Maybe you would be happier there, Leroy!
Old 01-24-2015, 07:47 AM
  #167  
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Well guys ,hope you figure out where the builders all went but this one is going back to my building table and finishing a couple builds i have going . I hope you all have a great winter of building and calm winds and sunny skys for flying this year :-) BYE All . joe
Old 01-24-2015, 08:58 AM
  #168  
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We are a dying breed us builders.We're also a bunch of hoarders! I've got 32 engines when I last counted and only four of those are in serviceable models. I've got four unstarted kits and seven models awaiting completion or maintenance but I'm a lightweight compared with a bloke who died last autumn. He left behind 42 unstarted kits including four four-engined scale models, 37 airframes, some fitted with engines and or radios, 39 engines, 7 transmitters, I could go on but you get my drift. Let's just say a total of 463 aeromodelling related products, that's counting a big box of plans as one item!

I'm nearly 67. When I was a child, we were not poor, far from it, but there wasn't that much money to throw about, so if you could find a bargain, you bought it! As the Grim Reaper works his way through our ranks there will be more hand-built models for us to acquire. The younger ARTF Set won't be interested. We will have the skill to repair and maintain them but in the end, they'll all go for kindling. Come back in fifty years and only a handful of eccentric practitioners will be building their own models out of balsa and ply. Will they be collecting electric motors then or organising competitions for old quad-copters?

I'll say this for the younger generation. They will have to be very adaptable in years to come because their jobs are likely to change from under their feet. You think that the pace of change is fast now? Just you wait. They will grow up in a world where everything changes so rapidly that they won't be able to understand how someone could spend months or even years building a model only to damage or destroy it on its first flight. It will look like a waste of time and effort to them. Those that have families to raise may not have the time or facilities to indulge in building and ARTFs cater for them. Cest la vie. I'm glad I'm out of the rat race.

I have tried to explain my interest in building to younger members of my club as they packed away their ARTFs. I explain that if you build your own models, with sports model you may choose your own colour scheme and as far as scale models are concerned, you may choose an unusual aircraft rather than be stuck with the same range of aerobats and fighters. They didn't seem to be understand what I was talking about.

Excuse me while I go and work on restoring my 1958 Uproar!
Old 01-24-2015, 09:18 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Telemaster Sales UK
We are a dying breed us builders.We're also a bunch of hoarders! I've got 32 engines when I last counted and only four of those are in serviceable models. I've got four unstarted kits and seven models awaiting completion or maintenance but I'm a lightweight compared with a bloke who died last autumn. He left behind 42 unstarted kits including four four-engined scale models, 37 airframes, some fitted with engines and or radios, 39 engines, 7 transmitters, I could go on but you get my drift. Let's just say a total of 463 aeromodelling related products, that's counting a big box of plans as one item!

I'm nearly 67. When I was a child, we were not poor, far from it, but there wasn't that much money to throw about, so if you could find a bargain, you bought it! As the Grim Reaper works his way through our ranks there will be more hand-built models for us to acquire. The younger ARTF Set won't be interested. We will have the skill to repair and maintain them but in the end, they'll all go for kindling. Come back in fifty years and only a handful of eccentric practitioners will be building their own models out of balsa and ply. Will they be collecting electric motors then or organising competitions for old quad-copters?

I'll say this for the younger generation. They will have to be very adaptable in years to come because their jobs are likely to change from under their feet. You think that the pace of change is fast now? Just you wait. They will grow up in a world where everything changes so rapidly that they won't be able to understand how someone could spend months or even years building a model only to damage or destroy it on its first flight. It will look like a waste of time and effort to them. Those that have families to raise may not have the time or facilities to indulge in building and ARTFs cater for them. Cest la vie. I'm glad I'm out of the rat race.

I have tried to explain my interest in building to younger members of my club as they packed away their ARTFs. I explain that if you build your own models, with sports model you may choose your own colour scheme and as far as scale models are concerned, you may choose an unusual aircraft rather than be stuck with the same range of aerobats and fighters. They didn't seem to be understand what I was talking about.

Excuse me while I go and work on restoring my 1958 Uproar!
As your post alludes to, change is the only constant in the universe. It's possible in 2025 we will look back on the "Era of the ARF" and say "Can you believe that only 10 years ago we were paying peasant girls over in China pennies and hour to build our model planes for us, and they were happy to do it? They were so cheap that we didn't care if we crashed them! We just got on the internet and ordered a new one the next day if we didn't have an extra stashed away already!"
Old 01-24-2015, 09:39 AM
  #170  
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How many of U have built a plane Full Scale from Scratch or Kit ... How about a Car Locomotive, boat. skies, spinning rod, Rifle tennis racket Base Ball Bat ... 50 to 200 years ago it was necessary ... Today it's about the Flying not so much the building for the average. Model enthusiasts had to build then but today it's mostly about the flying. There's more People into RC of all kinds just because U can buy an ARF/RTF model today. If people have the skill time and inclination and use it as a hobby or just a release form the daily grind, Wonderful. But few people have that skill or inclination today.. I PERSONALLY hate GLUE CA ECT. But it sure likes me ... sticks my fingers together right after I remove the cap. If I could put it up on a Bridgeport (Non CNC) and machine and bolt it together I would Might get a little heavy though. I detest putting an ARF together. Like I think I said before Thank GOD for Swap meets auctions and RCU.

But God Bless those with the talent Time and Inclination to Scratch Build a Scale Masterpiece Just shows how great and diverse this hobby/sport is.
Old 01-24-2015, 10:11 AM
  #171  
Leroy Gardner
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
From Lawrence B:"...All the builders have gone to R/C Scale Builder,"...Maybe you would be happier there, Leroy!
Not really, checked out R/C Scale Builders some time ago but found I liked the main stream, newbies, ardvarks, those wanting to learn. Times have changed but I still like the old ways of do it yourself because you can and I don't own a I Phone or anything related to it because a good life is too full of everything else, most of which has some meaning.
Old 01-24-2015, 10:35 AM
  #172  
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Good morning Leroy, I'm a member of NAPS over here. Got into rc a couple years ago after I retired. So I'm kind of a newbie but I built alot of control-line stuff when I was younger. I'm working on a Royal P-38 now which will be kind of long term project but I enjoy the journey. My flying skills may not be up to flying it but the building part is fun. I have a few other planes to fly when the weather gets warmer. Some have some battle scares, but all flyable. A couple of arfs too, not ashamed to say it, but I enjoy the building most of all. I try to have a project on the bench most of the time just to relax with. I've been to Silver Hills a couple of times as a spectator, it is a nice facility. May see you this summer. John.
Old 01-24-2015, 11:20 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
Not really, checked out R/C Scale Builders some time ago but found I liked the main stream, newbies, ardvarks, those wanting to learn. Times have changed but I still like the old ways of do it yourself because you can and I don't own a I Phone or anything related to it because a good life is too full of everything else, most of which has some meaning.
What is an iphone, a newfangled way to read?
Old 01-24-2015, 11:31 AM
  #174  
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By the way Leroy, I think most don't quite get the reasoning behind the question. It is not the lack of builders but rather the lack of the ability that is the real loss.
When I was younger me and the boys would grab the cane poles, some bread, and head for a lake. Same as I did with my father and he with his father. Now a days no one fishes from the bank in their quest to catch those big ones. Never do they ever think the biggest one caught was simply the time spent on the bank with one's father and/or grandfather. Those are the type of things that are being lost and likely never to return.
One of the first photos on my current build was my grand daughter at my build table. She has more questions than an encyclopedia has answers, but what precious times we have at the table.
Old 01-24-2015, 11:42 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by joebahl
ha ha cheetas ,spearment rino and many others in your town ,yea i worked there building a subdivision in north Las Vegas a 13years back and they set me up with a nice free house with a pool for over a year , lol I would ride the harley and see all the sites like red rock and canyon of fire plus the thunderbirds would practice over my subdivision a couple times a week, I was single back then also :-) lol
Play it Again Sam's is right around the corner from Nice Twice Hobbies. When Denny still owned the place a lot of the guys would eat lunch there. I went in once to pick up a menu, The guys I went to the hobby shop with and I said for years we were going to go there for lunch one day. It still hasn't happened though. It's cheaper to go to a fast food place and spend your money at the hobby shop.
I'm on the south side of town up from the Executive Airport. We have a couple of Edges and Extras plus a Waco parked there that fly over all the time. They sell thrill rides and off of the 15 going towards Ca. is a nice airport that sells rides in gliders. Last year we had a B-29 there for a week selling rides. That plane blocked out the view of the mountains when it took off and did a banking turn. The rumble of the engines shook the windows.

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