Where have all the builders gone
02-02-2015, 01:20 PM
#402
So, you have the 100% builders all of a dozen or so in the world, all the builders like me that also do ARFs, and people that only do ARFS (at least for now).
I think we should be as inclusive as we can. This is a huge country and things are different in other states, in other clubs.
But if you would say OK, no ARFS allowed in any club for one month! It would be a sad spectacle, as in my club you see more people with ARFs than not ARFS. And I am sure the same thing happens in other clubs, in other states.
I do not care what they fly, as long as they participate in our hobby, nor do I think I am better because I like (sometimes) go and build a Balsa USA 1/4 or 1/3 scale model...
Gerry
02-02-2015, 01:44 PM
#403
My Feedback: (22)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Killingworth ,
CT
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, This took a turn...
First, I must announce I'm a Team Horizon pilot. That out of the way, I've been in the hobby since I was a kid, some 38 yrs now. Like many, I've seen it all come and go. ARF's have changed the hobby, for the good, and the bad. Mostly good I guess. It's nice to go get a plane on a Thursday and be flying Saturday with it. Its fun and enjoyable. On the other hand, with the lack of skilled builders or bet yet skilled repairers, when the arf does crash, ( and we all do eventually) the repairs I have seen to some of them are down right dangerous. Those skills are only obtained from experience and practice.
In my opinion, ARF have hurt the hobby shops more than helped. Guys would buy a kit, then the glue, wheels, covering, clevis, spinner, motor, etc. Not so anymore, they buy a kit ( if they have a hobby shop ) and off they go.
So, where have all the builders gone? Most are still around, still building and still enjoying it. Unfortunately, its an aging crowd and many have passed on, or are just not computer guys.
OR
They're too busy building to post about it?
Enjoy whatever you do.
LEN
TEAM HORIZON
www.RcAerotowing.com/forum
First, I must announce I'm a Team Horizon pilot. That out of the way, I've been in the hobby since I was a kid, some 38 yrs now. Like many, I've seen it all come and go. ARF's have changed the hobby, for the good, and the bad. Mostly good I guess. It's nice to go get a plane on a Thursday and be flying Saturday with it. Its fun and enjoyable. On the other hand, with the lack of skilled builders or bet yet skilled repairers, when the arf does crash, ( and we all do eventually) the repairs I have seen to some of them are down right dangerous. Those skills are only obtained from experience and practice.
In my opinion, ARF have hurt the hobby shops more than helped. Guys would buy a kit, then the glue, wheels, covering, clevis, spinner, motor, etc. Not so anymore, they buy a kit ( if they have a hobby shop ) and off they go.
So, where have all the builders gone? Most are still around, still building and still enjoying it. Unfortunately, its an aging crowd and many have passed on, or are just not computer guys.
OR
They're too busy building to post about it?
Enjoy whatever you do.
LEN
TEAM HORIZON
www.RcAerotowing.com/forum
02-02-2015, 01:49 PM
#404
Gerry
02-02-2015, 02:02 PM
#405
See Joe, the problem is that you cannot see this like a white and black thing. There are not 2 groups: Builders and ARF people. All of us that have been long enough in this hobby have been 100% builders, as ARFs have not been invented. Now, ALL builders I know also have an ARF or 2 (or more):-)
So, you have the 100% builders all of a dozen or so in the world, all the builders like me that also do ARFs, and people that only do ARFS (at least for now).
I think we should be as inclusive as we can. This is a huge country and things are different in other states, in other clubs.
But if you would say OK, no ARFS allowed in any club for one month! It would be a sad spectacle, as in my club you see more people with ARFs than not ARFS. And I am sure the same thing happens in other clubs, in other states.
I do not care what they fly, as long as they participate in our hobby, nor do I think I am better because I like (sometimes) go and build a Balsa USA 1/4 or 1/3 scale model...
Gerry
So, you have the 100% builders all of a dozen or so in the world, all the builders like me that also do ARFs, and people that only do ARFS (at least for now).
I think we should be as inclusive as we can. This is a huge country and things are different in other states, in other clubs.
But if you would say OK, no ARFS allowed in any club for one month! It would be a sad spectacle, as in my club you see more people with ARFs than not ARFS. And I am sure the same thing happens in other clubs, in other states.
I do not care what they fly, as long as they participate in our hobby, nor do I think I am better because I like (sometimes) go and build a Balsa USA 1/4 or 1/3 scale model...
Gerry
02-02-2015, 02:32 PM
#406
Well damn, not enough emoticons to play with.
Could really use one that runs away.
02-02-2015, 03:23 PM
#407
My Feedback: (-1)
Plans like Ziroli have such poor instructions and prints, one has to guess on how to build them. It would be helpful if designers such as Ziroli would provide more complete instructions. Maybe have a CD with instructions through the complete build. Today, it's difficult to find a builder who can give you any help. Forums like these take a lot of time and effort to get much information from. Thus, potential builders get discouraged and quit and go to ARFs. I know that builders tend to do things differently, but there has got to be some basic instructions. I know that flyers in my area have not considered building because of these reasons and lack of time.
They really aren't that hard, they just don't have the step by step photos or as much information as kits from SIG or Tower now have.
I understand the problems a new builder would have with these older kits but that's how they were done in the past. There weren't any copy machines and printing would cost more money so it just wasn't done by the smaller kit cutters. I have built a couple of the Ziroli planes from plans without instructions and you really need to follow the blue prints, it can be mind boggling.
Some of the old kits had the instructions written on the plans and were only a couple of paragraphs.
02-02-2015, 04:59 PM
#409
I agree... You can now purchase 1/4, 1/3 and in some case bigger ARFs. Not to mention that most of the best acro. pilots are actually using ARFs, and have being doing so for quite some time... Unfortunately many people seem to link ARFs with cheap, and foam:-) I saw some pattern ARFs recently and the prices were, well, how can I say very, very expensive!
Gerry
Gerry
Many top competition pilots do not build their planes. The ability to be a great builder, and a great pilot seems to be as rare as a scratch builder. One of the reason why the top scale classes are impressive. You have to build, and fly your entry.
Not sure why there should be any reason to not get along in this thread. Oh, but the OP seems to be upset that I have made too many posts! Sorry to post to your thread. I guess I am just not saying what you would like hear.
02-02-2015, 05:10 PM
#410
Plans like Ziroli have such poor instructions and prints, one has to guess on how to build them. It would be helpful if designers such as Ziroli would provide more complete instructions. Maybe have a CD with instructions through the complete build. Today, it's difficult to find a builder who can give you any help. Forums like these take a lot of time and effort to get much information from. Thus, potential builders get discouraged and quit and go to ARFs. I know that builders tend to do things differently, but there has got to be some basic instructions. I know that flyers in my area have not considered building because of these reasons and lack of time.
Which design are you building? I have a Stuka about halfway sheeted. Paused to finish another project.
Your feelings on Ziroli only be shared based on the experience one has with scratch building to plans. I feel Ziroli designs are closer to a scratch build than a kit, although, I found the instructions for the Stuka are great. Also the kit I got from National balsa was perfect. My experience with the build reminds me of building a Kadet Sr. Certain areas are a little more challenging, like the landing gear and 3 piece wing hardware. I have found my experience to be very pleasurable, and would love to build another Ziroli.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
02-02-2015, 06:22 PM
#411
My Feedback: (11)
You take your self way to serious man. It's a joke, exaggerated and anyone with some intelligence and/or sense of humor can see. Poor guy, you'll never have any fun. I attempt to inject levity and he gets mad. Lighten up princess.
This one is really clueless.... Never heard of RTF? (which I will not define). But the author can google it. If I would have some time to waste I would organize a drive to see if we can get this person a clue...
Also, in his abject ignorance, to define an ARF as "A foam model all it needs is a lipo" is a deeply ignorant statement too. No point pointing out the obvious to this ignoramus.
No wonder this place is losing members...
Gerry
PS: this is in response to these statements (below)
2005:
Kit: A Covered model, needs electronics.
Arf: A prebuilt model, all covered. Motor and everything installed.
2015:
Kit: A foam model that requires installing lipo and RX
Arf: A foam model all it needs is a lipo
Also, in his abject ignorance, to define an ARF as "A foam model all it needs is a lipo" is a deeply ignorant statement too. No point pointing out the obvious to this ignoramus.
No wonder this place is losing members...
Gerry
PS: this is in response to these statements (below)
2005:
Kit: A Covered model, needs electronics.
Arf: A prebuilt model, all covered. Motor and everything installed.
2015:
Kit: A foam model that requires installing lipo and RX
Arf: A foam model all it needs is a lipo
02-02-2015, 07:11 PM
#412
You are right about the Ziroli plans (and other designers that sell plans might fall in the same group). But remember, building is a learning experience. I do not believe that someone that has no experience in the hobby would want to attempt building a Ziroli Kit, for his first model.. BUT, you can find a lot of help in line, not to mention with buddies at warbird meets. I have never run into a builder that did not do his best at explaining his model, and how it was built if one asks...
If you visit a site that deals with scale models, you can see Ziloli models built, discussed with pictures, that will answer all the questions you might have, and also those you did not have too! The internet can actually be your friend in any hobby:-)
Gerry
PS: As far as the time needed to build one of these projects. Yes, there is a time commitment need. No doubt.
If you visit a site that deals with scale models, you can see Ziloli models built, discussed with pictures, that will answer all the questions you might have, and also those you did not have too! The internet can actually be your friend in any hobby:-)
Gerry
PS: As far as the time needed to build one of these projects. Yes, there is a time commitment need. No doubt.
IIf U have put a couple of ARF's together U realize how well the instructions are documented WHY because they need to be so the inexperienced will not get discouraged and give up and not buy their products anymore. After a person gains more experience and skill they hey if so Inclined they go on to bigger and better things.
Another thing these guys that have been in this hobby for over 40 years and have acquired all this talent are, I find are of, 2 Types. The first that are willing to help anyone with any part of this Hobby/Sport from building, Repair, to Flying.
Then there is the kind that believe they are better than everyone else at every thing they do. Just like Crashers every club has a few of every type, It's just human nature. Many people over the years have been great help to me personally others love to lord things over you. I had several instructors when first starting in R/C But one Stands above all the rest, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out what type of person he was .....Maybe that's why i love instructing so much and don't care to fly my own planes anymore. Not to call out anyone in particular .....
but think down deep just what type U might be. Just wondering out loud I guess.
02-03-2015, 06:07 AM
#413
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: mooresville,
NC
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting thread. The quality of the ARF market has increased 10 fold over the last 10 to 15 years but ARF's are assembled not built, the building is done. An answer you will always see now is I don't have the time to build ( but you can sit in front of the TV at night )
We were in the ARF market, Our designs were high quality precision IMAC type planes We learned that people buy on price and pretty not how well they are built or fly. We made a decision to stop our ARF designs and bring all of it back to the USA and make kits here in house.
As a manufacturer of kits what I believe is what we see now is intimidation when opening a box of wood, sticks and foam. We get that all the time. Lets face it many guys that put ARF;'s together it may be the first time they ever had tools. So a box of wood and foam is a big step.
Here are a couple steps we have worked very hard on to bring back some builders and to get new ones. We now try to design kits for the first time builder in mind. No special tools no fancy building board. They are designed to be self aligning low parts count pretty much snap together. It would be almost impossible to build it wrong. Not counting the T-Craft which is not our design but we cut the short kit all our designs are meant for the first time builder without giving up any performance or quality.
The other thing is we are always just a phone call or e mail away. I can say we have seen new builders come into the market. What they get is a great sense of satisfaction and the ability to go to the field and show off what they created.
A Kit will never be as cheap as an ARF to build but I can bet there is a hell of a lot more pride in a finished kit over an ARF.
Al Young
JTEC/RADIOWAVE
We were in the ARF market, Our designs were high quality precision IMAC type planes We learned that people buy on price and pretty not how well they are built or fly. We made a decision to stop our ARF designs and bring all of it back to the USA and make kits here in house.
As a manufacturer of kits what I believe is what we see now is intimidation when opening a box of wood, sticks and foam. We get that all the time. Lets face it many guys that put ARF;'s together it may be the first time they ever had tools. So a box of wood and foam is a big step.
Here are a couple steps we have worked very hard on to bring back some builders and to get new ones. We now try to design kits for the first time builder in mind. No special tools no fancy building board. They are designed to be self aligning low parts count pretty much snap together. It would be almost impossible to build it wrong. Not counting the T-Craft which is not our design but we cut the short kit all our designs are meant for the first time builder without giving up any performance or quality.
The other thing is we are always just a phone call or e mail away. I can say we have seen new builders come into the market. What they get is a great sense of satisfaction and the ability to go to the field and show off what they created.
A Kit will never be as cheap as an ARF to build but I can bet there is a hell of a lot more pride in a finished kit over an ARF.
Al Young
JTEC/RADIOWAVE
02-03-2015, 07:45 AM
#414
My Feedback: (1)
I am an ARF/Builder. With my past flying experiences I have several crashed ARFs in my repair shop that I will rebuild so in that way I am a builder of sorts.
My problem with kit or stick building is the time and in most cases much higher costs.
I have huge respect for the stick and scratch builders especially the scale guys.
Gary
My problem with kit or stick building is the time and in most cases much higher costs.
I have huge respect for the stick and scratch builders especially the scale guys.
Gary
02-03-2015, 11:20 AM
#415
Interesting thread. The quality of the ARF market has increased 10 fold over the last 10 to 15 years but ARF's are assembled not built, the building is done. An answer you will always see now is I don't have the time to build ( but you can sit in front of the TV at night )
We were in the ARF market, Our designs were high quality precision IMAC type planes We learned that people buy on price and pretty not how well they are built or fly. We made a decision to stop our ARF designs and bring all of it back to the USA and make kits here in house.
As a manufacturer of kits what I believe is what we see now is intimidation when opening a box of wood, sticks and foam. We get that all the time. Lets face it many guys that put ARF;'s together it may be the first time they ever had tools. So a box of wood and foam is a big step.
Here are a couple steps we have worked very hard on to bring back some builders and to get new ones. We now try to design kits for the first time builder in mind. No special tools no fancy building board. They are designed to be self aligning low parts count pretty much snap together. It would be almost impossible to build it wrong. Not counting the T-Craft which is not our design but we cut the short kit all our designs are meant for the first time builder without giving up any performance or quality.
The other thing is we are always just a phone call or e mail away. I can say we have seen new builders come into the market. What they get is a great sense of satisfaction and the ability to go to the field and show off what they created.
A Kit will never be as cheap as an ARF to build but I can bet there is a hell of a lot more pride in a finished kit over an ARF.
Al Young
JTEC/RADIOWAVE
We were in the ARF market, Our designs were high quality precision IMAC type planes We learned that people buy on price and pretty not how well they are built or fly. We made a decision to stop our ARF designs and bring all of it back to the USA and make kits here in house.
As a manufacturer of kits what I believe is what we see now is intimidation when opening a box of wood, sticks and foam. We get that all the time. Lets face it many guys that put ARF;'s together it may be the first time they ever had tools. So a box of wood and foam is a big step.
Here are a couple steps we have worked very hard on to bring back some builders and to get new ones. We now try to design kits for the first time builder in mind. No special tools no fancy building board. They are designed to be self aligning low parts count pretty much snap together. It would be almost impossible to build it wrong. Not counting the T-Craft which is not our design but we cut the short kit all our designs are meant for the first time builder without giving up any performance or quality.
The other thing is we are always just a phone call or e mail away. I can say we have seen new builders come into the market. What they get is a great sense of satisfaction and the ability to go to the field and show off what they created.
A Kit will never be as cheap as an ARF to build but I can bet there is a hell of a lot more pride in a finished kit over an ARF.
Al Young
JTEC/RADIOWAVE
That is nice to see you guys offering kits. I did not know you had kits available. It would seem by the size, they are geared toward IMAC competition. That would be nice to see a couple in the 50cc size, in particular a Laser 200. 100cc plus is just too big for a lot of guys.
02-03-2015, 03:15 PM
#417
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: YORBA LINDA,
CA
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think all have touched on many of the reasons we are not building
In the beginning...........there were no kits, for that matter no plans. If you wanted to fly a model you had to create it. Then Kits came along. We all built because there were no ARFs. Radios could be listened to but your eyes were still on the model.
Then the world started to change. TV came along and our eyes were dawn away from our models. Building kits started to diminish.
Now the Computer, Internet, cell phones, tablets, you name it are now taking our attention. Couple that with children now having to be entertained 24/7 ( I used to model as my form of entertainment) , and we are seeing less of our 'quiet time" as our. We are all so busy in today's world with demands of the job (we are expected to cover so many bases in today's world). Couple that with again what has happen in technology we all expect "Instant Gratification" because we can not wait around to finish a plane.
Now add in the fact that teaching a slow methodical building discipline to a youngster is frankly not what the kids are looking for. They want everything now, and available without the time investment. I gave up trying to teach and excite my son about model building. He wanted me to do all the work!
Now again lets look at what else the computer and information age has done to us. All we need to do is Google a plane and we are swamped with every ARF for sale, and available within a week or two and we are flying. That brings up another subject. What about all the small town local hobby shops that stocked kits, Balsa, etc.? Because of the internet "E" Commerce the brick and motor, Mom and Pop shops are folding. In my eyes this is a sad outcome of todays world. These Mom and Pop shops were an inspiration to young kids which I thing encouraged building.
We will never go back to the "Begining" WE better get used to it.
This still does not answer the question of how to bring new vigor into building. One thought would be to have a club get a kit and break it apart into simple segments that members could assist new builders in building "That Part" as others would build "Another Part" and with a realistic short time bring all involved together as a club for the assembly and Maiden. Then maybe the newer crowd of builders could learn to enjoy that "I helped build this plane" feeling. Or, what about a club hosting a fly in for only first time scratch builts, with some of the more seasoned vets reviewing each model to help avoid that "Maiden Crash" But not to be so critical of appearance. JUST GET THE THING IN THE AIR! of course, we would need to do age group category participation. How about an AMA "National scratch or Kit Built Day"?
In the beginning...........there were no kits, for that matter no plans. If you wanted to fly a model you had to create it. Then Kits came along. We all built because there were no ARFs. Radios could be listened to but your eyes were still on the model.
Then the world started to change. TV came along and our eyes were dawn away from our models. Building kits started to diminish.
Now the Computer, Internet, cell phones, tablets, you name it are now taking our attention. Couple that with children now having to be entertained 24/7 ( I used to model as my form of entertainment) , and we are seeing less of our 'quiet time" as our. We are all so busy in today's world with demands of the job (we are expected to cover so many bases in today's world). Couple that with again what has happen in technology we all expect "Instant Gratification" because we can not wait around to finish a plane.
Now add in the fact that teaching a slow methodical building discipline to a youngster is frankly not what the kids are looking for. They want everything now, and available without the time investment. I gave up trying to teach and excite my son about model building. He wanted me to do all the work!
Now again lets look at what else the computer and information age has done to us. All we need to do is Google a plane and we are swamped with every ARF for sale, and available within a week or two and we are flying. That brings up another subject. What about all the small town local hobby shops that stocked kits, Balsa, etc.? Because of the internet "E" Commerce the brick and motor, Mom and Pop shops are folding. In my eyes this is a sad outcome of todays world. These Mom and Pop shops were an inspiration to young kids which I thing encouraged building.
We will never go back to the "Begining" WE better get used to it.
This still does not answer the question of how to bring new vigor into building. One thought would be to have a club get a kit and break it apart into simple segments that members could assist new builders in building "That Part" as others would build "Another Part" and with a realistic short time bring all involved together as a club for the assembly and Maiden. Then maybe the newer crowd of builders could learn to enjoy that "I helped build this plane" feeling. Or, what about a club hosting a fly in for only first time scratch builts, with some of the more seasoned vets reviewing each model to help avoid that "Maiden Crash" But not to be so critical of appearance. JUST GET THE THING IN THE AIR! of course, we would need to do age group category participation. How about an AMA "National scratch or Kit Built Day"?
02-04-2015, 06:44 AM
#419
It really doesn't weather U build Scratch, Kits, RTC assemble ARF or buy RTF or buy Used here on RCU.
It's all about what makes us as individuals happy. If U take any Hobby/Sport too Seriously it becomes an anchor around your neck and U are libel to dround your self. I'm posting this next little bit on several Forum / Threads so for all U like me that read and comment on mutalpal forums hold your APPLAUSE and your Gripes till the end. ..... PLEASE.
Last night Tuesday Feb 3 rd at the February of the Arizona Model Aviators monthly meeting our guest speaker was no other than Rich Hanson the AMA's Liaison to the FAA. Long story short He used to belong to the this club still has a home in Scottsdale and had a really well presented Power Point pretension on what has Happened between the AMA/FAA Pretty much since 2008 and before.Even though his Microsoft Lap top desided to Reboot and UPDATE it self Rich kept right on with out it till it decided to come back to life. There was a extensive question and answer session that followed his presentation... And U have the 3 types of members
1. The Board to death guys I don't even know why they attend the meeting except some are Club Officers.
2. The Long winded guy that keeps asking the same Question in differ-ant ways.
3. and the person that really seems interested enough to pay attention and if they do ask a question it's almost intelligent.
you could that MR Hanson has run in to all Types and very grayishly attempted/did answer the questions intelligently.
But here is an interesting and well thought and Presented truth about this Hobby/Sports Feature. Be painent It's not what U would expect from the title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz19DQ6-eGE
It's all about what makes us as individuals happy. If U take any Hobby/Sport too Seriously it becomes an anchor around your neck and U are libel to dround your self. I'm posting this next little bit on several Forum / Threads so for all U like me that read and comment on mutalpal forums hold your APPLAUSE and your Gripes till the end. ..... PLEASE.
Last night Tuesday Feb 3 rd at the February of the Arizona Model Aviators monthly meeting our guest speaker was no other than Rich Hanson the AMA's Liaison to the FAA. Long story short He used to belong to the this club still has a home in Scottsdale and had a really well presented Power Point pretension on what has Happened between the AMA/FAA Pretty much since 2008 and before.Even though his Microsoft Lap top desided to Reboot and UPDATE it self Rich kept right on with out it till it decided to come back to life. There was a extensive question and answer session that followed his presentation... And U have the 3 types of members
1. The Board to death guys I don't even know why they attend the meeting except some are Club Officers.
2. The Long winded guy that keeps asking the same Question in differ-ant ways.
3. and the person that really seems interested enough to pay attention and if they do ask a question it's almost intelligent.
you could that MR Hanson has run in to all Types and very grayishly attempted/did answer the questions intelligently.
But here is an interesting and well thought and Presented truth about this Hobby/Sports Feature. Be painent It's not what U would expect from the title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz19DQ6-eGE
02-04-2015, 09:54 AM
#420
I think now it is a lot easier to build kits than when I started. All we had available in Neuquén (Argentina) were Pilot kits (from Japan). They were of very, very good quality. Great kits! One problem: No instructions, and just some notes in Japanese on the blueprints (some of which were translated into something like English, but not quite). And all measurements were metric (which was OK in Argentina).
So, we consulted with friends at the RC club, and you learn as you go. I still remember (and have) my first 1/4 scale (over 2 decades old now). It was a Balsa USA j-3 which I built like a Super Cub. My conclusion at the time was, if you know how to read, you can do this. The kits here had instructions! What will they think of next! Well, if you know how to read, you can build a 4 star (any size) no doubt. And if you are willing to solder, and know how to read you can build any Balsa USA kit.
Now if you go the designer way (buy a blueprint and a cut kit from any of the kit cutters) it still is easy because you have the Internet to learn how somebody else did the kit before you! So, if you want to build a Ziroli, let's say a Stuka, you google "ziroli stuka build". and you will not find just one guy that build the thing, and detailed painstakingly the process for you. You will find many!
Picture one shows my "historic" BUSA model (re-done about 4 or 5 years ago. and the DVIII I am working on
Picture two shows the wing of a Midwest Low Wing Sweet Stick (Giant) being worked on. Sorry about the mess. I will cleanup when I retire.
Gerry
So, we consulted with friends at the RC club, and you learn as you go. I still remember (and have) my first 1/4 scale (over 2 decades old now). It was a Balsa USA j-3 which I built like a Super Cub. My conclusion at the time was, if you know how to read, you can do this. The kits here had instructions! What will they think of next! Well, if you know how to read, you can build a 4 star (any size) no doubt. And if you are willing to solder, and know how to read you can build any Balsa USA kit.
Now if you go the designer way (buy a blueprint and a cut kit from any of the kit cutters) it still is easy because you have the Internet to learn how somebody else did the kit before you! So, if you want to build a Ziroli, let's say a Stuka, you google "ziroli stuka build". and you will not find just one guy that build the thing, and detailed painstakingly the process for you. You will find many!
Picture one shows my "historic" BUSA model (re-done about 4 or 5 years ago. and the DVIII I am working on
Picture two shows the wing of a Midwest Low Wing Sweet Stick (Giant) being worked on. Sorry about the mess. I will cleanup when I retire.
Gerry
02-04-2015, 10:15 AM
#421
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
Posts: 2,126
Received 145 Likes
on
123 Posts
Every summer, for the past five or six years, an event has been organised by the Greenacres Model Aircraft club near Walsall, not too far from the very centre of England. It is called a Mass Build and is part sponsored by the UK's leading model aircraft magazine, Radio Control Models and Electronics or RCM&E for short. Every year a model, or a number of models are selected by ballot. People build their models, put a build log on line and fly them at the Greenacres weekend event. The idea is to help beginners to build their own model. I have built and entered a model in every event except for one year when the chosen model was a Tucano. I didn't fancy that!
However, although the event is well attended I don't think that more than about 40 people turn up with their newly built models. Considering that the British Model Flying Association has a membership of about 36,000 when I last checked, that says it all, and many of the builders are the same faces year after year.
Building is a dying art. Once all of us greybeards have gone to the Great Flying Field in the Sky there will be no more builders except for a few sad saps/hardy individuals who will be cutting balsa and plywood alone in their sheds.
As King Louis XV didn't say, "Apres nous la fin!"
However, although the event is well attended I don't think that more than about 40 people turn up with their newly built models. Considering that the British Model Flying Association has a membership of about 36,000 when I last checked, that says it all, and many of the builders are the same faces year after year.
Building is a dying art. Once all of us greybeards have gone to the Great Flying Field in the Sky there will be no more builders except for a few sad saps/hardy individuals who will be cutting balsa and plywood alone in their sheds.
As King Louis XV didn't say, "Apres nous la fin!"
02-04-2015, 10:36 AM
#422
I think now it is a lot easier to build kits than when I started. All we had available in Neuquén (Argentina) were Pilot kits (from Japan). They were of very, very good quality. Great kits! One problem: No instructions, and just some notes in Japanese on the blueprints (some of which were translated into something like English, but not quite). And all measurements were metric (which was OK in Argentina).
So, we consulted with friends at the RC club, and you learn as you go. I still remember (and have) my first 1/4 scale (over 2 decades old now). It was a Balsa USA j-3 which I built like a Super Cub. My conclusion at the time was, if you know how to read, you can do this. The kits here had instructions! What will they think of next! Well, if you know how to read, you can build a 4 star (any size) no doubt. And if you are willing to solder, and know how to read you can build any Balsa USA kit.
Now if you go the designer way (buy a blueprint and a cut kit from any of the kit cutters) it still is easy because you have the Internet to learn how somebody else did the kit before you! So, if you want to build a Ziroli, let's say a Stuka, you google "ziroli stuka build". and you will not find just one guy that build the thing, and detailed painstakingly the process for you. You will find many!
Picture one shows my "historic" BUSA model (re-done about 4 or 5 years ago. and the DVIII I am working on
Picture two shows the wing of a Midwest Low Wing Sweet Stick (Giant) being worked on. Sorry about the mess. I will cleanup when I retire.
Gerry
So, we consulted with friends at the RC club, and you learn as you go. I still remember (and have) my first 1/4 scale (over 2 decades old now). It was a Balsa USA j-3 which I built like a Super Cub. My conclusion at the time was, if you know how to read, you can do this. The kits here had instructions! What will they think of next! Well, if you know how to read, you can build a 4 star (any size) no doubt. And if you are willing to solder, and know how to read you can build any Balsa USA kit.
Now if you go the designer way (buy a blueprint and a cut kit from any of the kit cutters) it still is easy because you have the Internet to learn how somebody else did the kit before you! So, if you want to build a Ziroli, let's say a Stuka, you google "ziroli stuka build". and you will not find just one guy that build the thing, and detailed painstakingly the process for you. You will find many!
Picture one shows my "historic" BUSA model (re-done about 4 or 5 years ago. and the DVIII I am working on
Picture two shows the wing of a Midwest Low Wing Sweet Stick (Giant) being worked on. Sorry about the mess. I will cleanup when I retire.
Gerry
Having built from kits and from plans for 40 years, I've paid my dues.
Ever built a Nosen kit? 2 pages of typed instructions, if you're lucky. Ziroli? The instructions (as it were) are on the plans. Sterling - with their "die crushed" parts? Ever built from an early Midwest kit where all the parts were simply outlined - the builder had to cut them all out... and then assemble with Ambroid or Titebond... been there, done that. Ever built just from pictures in an RCM article? So have I.
Ever assembled and flown a composite aircraft? I have - 7 of them. And I have to tell ya, it is very difficult to turn back the clock. Yes, I am SPOILED! While I still have LOTS of kits and plans on the shelf, simply having too much fun flying models that I could NEVER produce regardless of my resources; models that once assembled and trimmed, fly beautifully and hold up even better.. for YEARS.
Yes, there is a level of satisfaction which can be attained by gluing together a large box o' sticks, OR cutting them all out yourself first. No doubt about it. BUT if you are equally (or more) interested in FLYING, then there is simply no substitute for the plethora of fantastic ARFs now available.
There have also never been so many distractions and other forms of amusement available, which is why (human nature being what it is) so few of us MAKE the time to build anymore...
02-04-2015, 05:49 PM
#423
Ok some may not feel this way but as a builder I concider ARF, RTC and kits all builds by builders. The only diferance for me is time.
anyways there are plenty of builders, there just busy building!
Also you might be surprised just by looking at your own flying field. At one field I fly at I know of only a few that I consider builders, and at the other field I only know of one that is a builder, the rest I consider flyers, yes they can put together a ARF but that is by necessity.
TB
anyways there are plenty of builders, there just busy building!
Also you might be surprised just by looking at your own flying field. At one field I fly at I know of only a few that I consider builders, and at the other field I only know of one that is a builder, the rest I consider flyers, yes they can put together a ARF but that is by necessity.
TB
Last edited by TonyBuilder; 02-04-2015 at 05:54 PM.
02-04-2015, 06:06 PM
#424
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ARF ect ect they all have there place. The kits I do build are modified so much to save weight. It would be cheaper just to scratch them so most of what I prefer is to scratch built . But I do have 4 kits in the hanger. It depends on the subject I guess
but I'll be honest I bought two ARF's for the first time a great planes giant citabria. And. Aerobeez 30cc yak 54 . They will be my first gasoline motors .
I intend to enjoy my retirement
but I'll be honest I bought two ARF's for the first time a great planes giant citabria. And. Aerobeez 30cc yak 54 . They will be my first gasoline motors .
I intend to enjoy my retirement
02-04-2015, 09:02 PM
#425
Thread Starter
ARF ect ect they all have there place. The kits I do build are modified so much to save weight. It would be cheaper just to scratch them so most of what I prefer is to scratch built . But I do have 4 kits in the hanger. It depends on the subject I guess
but I'll be honest I bought two ARF's for the first time a great planes giant citabria. And. Aerobeez 30cc yak 54 . They will be my first gasoline motors .
I intend to enjoy my retirement
but I'll be honest I bought two ARF's for the first time a great planes giant citabria. And. Aerobeez 30cc yak 54 . They will be my first gasoline motors .
I intend to enjoy my retirement
