Where have all the builders gone
08-03-2015, 10:58 AM
#901
Don't let anything stop you ... GO FLYING! I have 2 ARFs in my crowd of aeroplanes, one 15 yrs old and has never been flown ... BUT ... they are there if I have other problems like Radio, Engine, or if I ReKit some of my flyers. Even though my love is Scratch Built Scale, I'll fly and ARF before I sit inside. Nothing wrong with them, just a factory built them. And I find myself with a new love, "Parkflyers" or Foam Planes. What a concept! I have to learn all the jargon and how to do it first.
BBailey
BBailey
Gerry
Last edited by GerKonig; 08-03-2015 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Typo
08-04-2015, 01:10 AM
#906
Originally Posted by [email protected]
why worry where all the builders went you cant tell the new flyers anything they know it all ive been flying since 1940
08-04-2015, 04:00 AM
#907
Originally Posted by [email protected]
why worry where all the builders went you cant tell the new flyers anything they know it all ive been flying since 1940
I agree that there are still plenty of guys "building",, but even more guys BSing on the interweb, Call em what you want, builders, arf assemblers, who cares,,, but first ask yourselves,,, why am I being condescending to my fellow hobbyist because they don't do exactly what I like to do?.
08-04-2015, 04:30 AM
#908
I know plenty of guys older than me that hand out bonehead advise. I agree that there are still plenty of guys "building",, but even more guys BSing on the interweb, Call em what you want, builders, arf assemblers, who cares,,, but first ask yourselves,,, why am I being condescending to my fellow hobbyist because they don't do exactly what I like to do?.
08-04-2015, 06:46 AM
#909
My Feedback: (9)
i was toldon the FMS fw190 forum that they don't have as much time as i, so they flyfoamies. I did not bother with going into the maintenance required usuallyexceeds the build time I’ve taught a lot of people how to fly WWII fighters butvery few make it all the way through in one sitting (if you will). They usuallyfind a nitch that works for them and stay there untill they realize there isstill a better way.
The bestway to describe it is my son learned to fly 15 years ago. All the fliers were Ifly were my age and older so he found a group his age that flew and palledaround with them for ten+ years. And I was a fossil that built planes. Then 5 yearsago I was sick and needed to be driven to the field for a period of time. One ofthose times I got him to try my focke wulf tank 152h1. He was amazed how grovyit was, how predictable it was, and how little movement it took to make minorcorrections. There were a ton of questions, he was at a point skill wise tofeel the difference. He started building wood arf’s and quickly noticed thedifference between $7 and $50 servos. Then the trade off’s in different ways ofmounting pushrods. And on and on.
I had toldhim all this stuff before but he was not at a skill level to actually feel orunderstand the difference. Now he hasglommed onto my Platt focke Wulf 190 D-9 that’s older than he. Because it’s “THEBEST FLYING PLANE HE’s EVER FLOWN” his words. It is a sweet plane, but he hadto have skill enough to notice the nuances that set it apart.
My pointbeing if I offer a solution to someone that is beyond their experience level,they just wount see it. So I look for the deer in the headlights look and backoff if I see it.or in younger modelers “verbal Ques” haha.
The bestway to describe it is my son learned to fly 15 years ago. All the fliers were Ifly were my age and older so he found a group his age that flew and palledaround with them for ten+ years. And I was a fossil that built planes. Then 5 yearsago I was sick and needed to be driven to the field for a period of time. One ofthose times I got him to try my focke wulf tank 152h1. He was amazed how grovyit was, how predictable it was, and how little movement it took to make minorcorrections. There were a ton of questions, he was at a point skill wise tofeel the difference. He started building wood arf’s and quickly noticed thedifference between $7 and $50 servos. Then the trade off’s in different ways ofmounting pushrods. And on and on.
I had toldhim all this stuff before but he was not at a skill level to actually feel orunderstand the difference. Now he hasglommed onto my Platt focke Wulf 190 D-9 that’s older than he. Because it’s “THEBEST FLYING PLANE HE’s EVER FLOWN” his words. It is a sweet plane, but he hadto have skill enough to notice the nuances that set it apart.
My pointbeing if I offer a solution to someone that is beyond their experience level,they just wount see it. So I look for the deer in the headlights look and backoff if I see it.or in younger modelers “verbal Ques” haha.
08-04-2015, 08:42 AM
#910
I don't think "being condescending" is a good way to put it. Granted, it may apply in some cases but, for the most part, most veteran flyers and builders try to be helpful. I've seen plenty of people in the boating forums that give "bonehead advice" just to make themselves look more in the know that they really are. I won't go into any details but some actually have told experienced racers they don't know what they are talking about just to make themselves look good
Typical example, you see all the time, Heli and Quad guys calling airplanes "planks" and EP guys calling glow planes "slimmers" and the 3D guys calling scale plane guys "Circle flyers", if those terms are not meant to be condescending, I don't know what is.
It'd be pretty boring if we all had the same exact toys
Last edited by scale only 4 me; 08-05-2015 at 05:30 AM.
08-04-2015, 11:15 AM
#911
I had toldhim all this stuff before but he was not at a skill level to actually feel orunderstand the difference. Now he hasglommed onto my Platt focke Wulf 190 D-9 that’s older than he. Because it’s “THEBEST FLYING PLANE HE’s EVER FLOWN” his words. It is a sweet plane, but he hadto have skill enough to notice the nuances that set it apart.
My pointbeing if I offer a solution to someone that is beyond their experience level,they just wount see it. So I look for the deer in the headlights look and backoff if I see it.or in younger modelers “verbal Ques” haha.
My pointbeing if I offer a solution to someone that is beyond their experience level,they just wount see it. So I look for the deer in the headlights look and backoff if I see it.or in younger modelers “verbal Ques” haha.
Like you, I don't see how advanced advice can help a modeler without enough experience to comprehend it. I feel that building a few kits, as designed, helps a flegeling builder gain experience and some knowledge to make safe and productive changes to an airframe.
08-04-2015, 01:21 PM
#913
I've been building and ReKitting since 1965 off and on, depends on wife, but I only built a couple kits before I started Scratch Building. Aircraft of all sizes are my passion (a trip back to Wright Patterson AFB is in my future). I still have about 10 Kits, 3 ReKits, and 7 aircraft. I enjoy making the tooling to build the parts needed. I say My head is in the Plans and my hands are in the Balsa. I am 61, started going out with friends that used Escapments which I could not afford. Then in 1965 I bought my very first plane with paper route money, a CL, long before RC. It was a full Fuse, 34in, Biplane, The Flying Fool. I have now purchased a complete set of the original plans.
GUESS WHAT ... I STILL don't know much. The Hobby moves too fast, Adhesives, Coverings, Foamies, Electric Motors, and on and on. I just stick what I know and ask you guys if -"WHEN"- I need help. I do work with Newbies, but ONLY if they want to listen and learn. First time they know more then I do, they are on their own. But many do need help. I am mostly talking about Scratch Builder's now. It is not the same world as Kits or ARF's. If they all the sudden know more then me ... the door they came in also goes out. No sense in wasting my working time.
BBailey
GUESS WHAT ... I STILL don't know much. The Hobby moves too fast, Adhesives, Coverings, Foamies, Electric Motors, and on and on. I just stick what I know and ask you guys if -"WHEN"- I need help. I do work with Newbies, but ONLY if they want to listen and learn. First time they know more then I do, they are on their own. But many do need help. I am mostly talking about Scratch Builder's now. It is not the same world as Kits or ARF's. If they all the sudden know more then me ... the door they came in also goes out. No sense in wasting my working time.
BBailey
08-04-2015, 01:51 PM
#914
I fully agree with you both ...
I had a friend, a GOOD RC Flyer, but he moved up in his learning too fast. He bought a Top Flight Mustang that has some Dihedral, 0 Incidence, and full Laminar flow ribs. The Fuselage was Designed to short coupled to the empennage also. He could fly this but he had more than he was ready for. He literally had to fly it into touchdown for landings. He sold me the plane. I am going to rebuild the wing. I am going to reduce the width of the lower part of the Ribs and put 2 Degrees of Incidence twist on each wing tip so it will still fly decent but when you flatten out to land you won't have to fly it into the ground. TRY explaining that to a NEWBIE. Besides I have to build it and try it first, but I have done that before on a hot pony and it worked. If I Scratch Build this plane from the plans again I will put 2 degrees Incidence in the Wing, Modify the Ribs, and Lengthen the Fuselage for a longer moment. Then she should fly a lot better. I'm not into Pattern Flying, I just like to FLY!!
BBailey
I had a friend, a GOOD RC Flyer, but he moved up in his learning too fast. He bought a Top Flight Mustang that has some Dihedral, 0 Incidence, and full Laminar flow ribs. The Fuselage was Designed to short coupled to the empennage also. He could fly this but he had more than he was ready for. He literally had to fly it into touchdown for landings. He sold me the plane. I am going to rebuild the wing. I am going to reduce the width of the lower part of the Ribs and put 2 Degrees of Incidence twist on each wing tip so it will still fly decent but when you flatten out to land you won't have to fly it into the ground. TRY explaining that to a NEWBIE. Besides I have to build it and try it first, but I have done that before on a hot pony and it worked. If I Scratch Build this plane from the plans again I will put 2 degrees Incidence in the Wing, Modify the Ribs, and Lengthen the Fuselage for a longer moment. Then she should fly a lot better. I'm not into Pattern Flying, I just like to FLY!!
BBailey
Last edited by BBailey711; 08-04-2015 at 01:54 PM.
08-05-2015, 04:32 AM
#915
My Feedback: (9)
its funny to watch my son go through the learning curve on building now. he used to bring home stay's (my term for ARF's someone else crashed and he said dad can fix it) now he has started a Horton 213 (I think), looks just like our modern jets (hmmmm). I told him to put all the sheeting together on the bench sand it flat then put it on the wing. well he did the first one him self and laid the sheeting down one plank at a time. he was very proud of it! so I took him down and showed what I ment doing the bottom side of the next wing, with him pointing out how much time, and balsa I was wasting, how the CA would not be usable on top side sheeting, etc.. so I put it on with alphatic resin and bags of shot to hold it down. he had to wait till the next day and it killed him!!!!!!!! then he got to compare the final product with what he had done, without me around. next time I saw it (the next day after we both returned from work) the top sheeting was done and it looked pretty good.
Joe
Joe
08-05-2015, 09:30 AM
#916
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
The Apprentice has brought more people into this hobby than any other plane in recent years.
Example our club has about 6 or 7 new members this year. One young lady (young because she is 20 years my junior and I'm 72)
She refuses to TO in anything but Beginner mode and won't fly with out it in Intermediate mode. But U know what She's having fun. That's what's it's all about. ( her previous hobby was racing full scale Hydro Plane boats).A Couple others are old geezers (cause they are older than me. They will never break the proverbial Cord, but who cares they will never build a plane but they are having fun (I think). Then there the 3 young men that in a matter of a couple of week ends have outgrown the Apprentice at least for it's Stabilization. They were flying them in 12 to 18 MPH cross winds that ground most of us. Why because they didn't know they couldn't.
Again it about having fun and if building is your fun so be it. Please don't look down from your high and mighty because some one can't/doesn't build what they fly. Over the years the lack of pre-built models has discouraged more people from continuing in this hobby. They spent hundreds of hours building their first ever master piece and they come out and are told first they can't fly it here because they don't belong to the AMA or the club. Then some old Geezer (Builder)comes over and proceeds to rip on these people about how they have built a peice of crap.
I didn't mean to get on my soap box, But the hobby has many different facets and building is just one of them. Personally I hate building, Mainly because I'm not very good at it. If I could put it on a BridgePort and mill it and screw and dowel it well then maybe. I purchased USED. 2 Reasons It's less expensive by half, and I'm not as attached to them when the crash. So sorry if I stepped on any toes. Just realize there so many facits to this hobby and not every one cares for them all. It's all about what spins your won wheels.
Now I'm going out to the field and have fun flying. I Hope. Happy Landings to ya.
Example our club has about 6 or 7 new members this year. One young lady (young because she is 20 years my junior and I'm 72)
She refuses to TO in anything but Beginner mode and won't fly with out it in Intermediate mode. But U know what She's having fun. That's what's it's all about. ( her previous hobby was racing full scale Hydro Plane boats).A Couple others are old geezers (cause they are older than me. They will never break the proverbial Cord, but who cares they will never build a plane but they are having fun (I think). Then there the 3 young men that in a matter of a couple of week ends have outgrown the Apprentice at least for it's Stabilization. They were flying them in 12 to 18 MPH cross winds that ground most of us. Why because they didn't know they couldn't.
Again it about having fun and if building is your fun so be it. Please don't look down from your high and mighty because some one can't/doesn't build what they fly. Over the years the lack of pre-built models has discouraged more people from continuing in this hobby. They spent hundreds of hours building their first ever master piece and they come out and are told first they can't fly it here because they don't belong to the AMA or the club. Then some old Geezer (Builder)comes over and proceeds to rip on these people about how they have built a peice of crap.
I didn't mean to get on my soap box, But the hobby has many different facets and building is just one of them. Personally I hate building, Mainly because I'm not very good at it. If I could put it on a BridgePort and mill it and screw and dowel it well then maybe. I purchased USED. 2 Reasons It's less expensive by half, and I'm not as attached to them when the crash. So sorry if I stepped on any toes. Just realize there so many facits to this hobby and not every one cares for them all. It's all about what spins your won wheels.
Now I'm going out to the field and have fun flying. I Hope. Happy Landings to ya.
08-05-2015, 05:51 PM
#919
My Feedback: (109)
That goes on everywhere, every hobby, Worse now with people becoming experts via google vs.actual hands on life experience, but I'm more talking about guys putting down other guys because they don't build, or don't build the right type of model, or whatever. When people put others down over minor nonsense, It typically means they have self esteem issues.
Typical example, you see all the time, Heli and Quad guys calling airplanes "planks" and EP guys calling glow planes "slimmers" and the 3D guys calling scale plane guys "Circle flyers", if those terms are not meant to be condescending, I don't know what is.
It'd be pretty boring if we all had the same exact toys
Typical example, you see all the time, Heli and Quad guys calling airplanes "planks" and EP guys calling glow planes "slimmers" and the 3D guys calling scale plane guys "Circle flyers", if those terms are not meant to be condescending, I don't know what is.
It'd be pretty boring if we all had the same exact toys
08-05-2015, 06:53 PM
#921
The difference between a builder and assembler is when the plane gets cracked up, and it WILL get cracked up, the builder knows how to repair it, while the assembler just tosses it in the trash and gets another one. I have seen plenty of planes in the can that could be rebuilt.
08-05-2015, 07:24 PM
#922
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The difference between a builder and assembler is when the plane gets cracked up, and it WILL get cracked up, the builder knows how to repair it, while the assembler just tosses it in the trash and gets another one. I have seen plenty of planes in the can that could be rebuilt.
08-06-2015, 07:51 AM
#923
Senior Member
That goes on everywhere, every hobby, Worse now with people becoming experts via google vs.actual hands on life experience, but I'm more talking about guys putting down other guys because they don't build, or don't build the right type of model, or whatever. When people put others down over minor nonsense, It typically means they have self esteem issues.
Typical example, you see all the time, Heli and Quad guys calling airplanes "planks" and EP guys calling glow planes "slimmers" and the 3D guys calling scale plane guys "Circle flyers", if those terms are not meant to be condescending, I don't know what is.
It'd be pretty boring if we all had the same exact toys
Typical example, you see all the time, Heli and Quad guys calling airplanes "planks" and EP guys calling glow planes "slimmers" and the 3D guys calling scale plane guys "Circle flyers", if those terms are not meant to be condescending, I don't know what is.
It'd be pretty boring if we all had the same exact toys
Sooo, what you are saying is that this whole thread is nonsense?? It seems the whole thread is about "BUILDERS" putting down "ARFERS".... In the unforgettable words of Eddie Murphy ".....Bark like a dawg...."
08-06-2015, 04:31 PM
#925
Same here. Sometimes you just cant get a kit for a plane you like, and unless you can find or make plans, the ARF is the only choice, like the SIG T-Clips. Love that plane.