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SIG Stratus (#RC4) - the long slow plans build

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SIG Stratus (#RC4) - the long slow plans build

Old 07-01-2015, 04:56 AM
  #226  
FlyerInOKC
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My radio failure was putting an old 72 Mhz Heathkit 3 channel RX thru the beam of a microwave repeater that I didn't know existed. 3 guess why the flying field was abandoned and relocated!

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Old 07-01-2015, 05:29 AM
  #227  
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Well that sucks! Have you done a functional check on the radio to see what the problem was? Is it possible the battery either became disconnected in flight or gave it up ? A bad switch? Did you do a range check before the flight? Total signal loss on a AM modulation radio is unusual. Even if it's out of tune, it's going to show something. Here is some inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLs0V8T5AA
Old 07-01-2015, 06:13 AM
  #228  
skylark-flier
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Hokay guys - things are actually looking up a bit. I've found some contributing causes, mostly too light equipment I think. Every one of the control rods is bendable (beyond being bent as they are), or maybe flexible is a better word. When I rebuild her I'll put in the larger/heavier control rods. Not sure of the actual size rating but I know they're available through Tower.

Radio's 72 MHz FM, and it's operational - believe it or not. Yeah, I do range checks on EVERY radio I use, every time. Learned that a long time ago. On days where there's heavy activity around me I'll do a range check every hour or so too - just in case. Anyway, I hooked the battery up last night after soldering a new connector onto it (old one's shattered and bent like a pretzel) and every control input works. One servo is toast (throttle), the other 4 (elevator, rudder, twin-ailerons) are good through their entire movement sphere. What DOESN'T work properly is the switch - and it's a brand new one, or was. There are "dead" spots on it. You can turn it on and it'll work, then not work. Shake it and it works again, then doesn't. I put another older switch into the system and everything came alive again.

So! While I'm rather convinced that the control rods, if they weren't failing already - would have eventually - the radio, actually the switch itself, is most likely the real culprit. It's been dumped and the other switch in now on-line. This is, as I said earlier, the last of 4 that I bought as a group a long time ago - I may eventually replace it anyway with a new Futaba 72MHz 4-channel. Tower still carries them and isn't planning to discontinue any time in the NEAR future (already checked that out some time back).

I'm already looking for a replacement engine. It'll definitely be a .60 too, I love the power they have and watching this bird going up vertical without slowing - what a trip!!!

Already started stripping the covering from the right wing, which is the one with the most damage inboard. Also took the bottom rear off the fuse so I can start on a few minor upgrades there, while I'm at it.

Y'know I've always built my planes like they were tanks, I've never had one come out at the designed weight - always heavy. Good thing too, the rebuild's not going to be all THAT extensive or difficult, just gonna take time and patience. Having had all the rain we've gotten lately wasn't a bad thing either - ground was fairly soft. Impressive seeing that crater the engine left.
Old 07-01-2015, 07:09 AM
  #229  
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Here's my experience with "soft" ground. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=25
Old 07-01-2015, 07:43 AM
  #230  
FlyerInOKC
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what kind of radio was in it? The color of the servos reminds me of Kraft but the sticker is wrong.
Old 07-01-2015, 12:00 PM
  #231  
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Oh man, Dave. At least you got in some enjoyable flights. Admire your positive attitude.
Old 07-01-2015, 02:56 PM
  #232  
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OMG, Mike! Old rubber bands? REALLY???????????????

Geez, I feel better already. I'm not the only one this year that's pranging planes.

EJ, not to worry - there's gonna be a whole lot more flights. Just gonna take awhile.
Old 07-02-2015, 04:30 AM
  #233  
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The best habit to develop with rubber bands is add two spares once you have enough to hold the wings. Store them in a ziplock bag of baby powder and then cut them up at the end of the season so you don't go another seasoon with the same bands..
Old 07-02-2015, 05:08 AM
  #234  
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May I throw in my thoughts on pushrods. For the past 35+ years, I have used nothing put solid pushrods of music wire with threaded couplers on the ends and clevises or the steel pushrods that have one threaded end. Nyrod outer tubes are fixed securely from close to the servo the their exit in the back of the fuselage and and a couple of spots in between to house the pushrods. This provides a slop free connection between the servo and control surface. It is simple to do and trouble free.
Good luck on the rebuild.
Old 07-02-2015, 12:48 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by heggen
May I throw in my thoughts on pushrods. For the past 35+ years, I have used nothing put solid pushrods of music wire with threaded couplers on the ends and clevises or the steel pushrods that have one threaded end. Nyrod outer tubes are fixed securely from close to the servo the their exit in the back of the fuselage and and a couple of spots in between to house the pushrods. This provides a slop free connection between the servo and control surface. It is simple to do and trouble free.
Good luck on the rebuild.
Yup, I'm taking notes here.

What I have/had in the Stratus are/were the standard 12" Dubro 2-56 threaded rods (.074" diameter) and locking clevis' with the rod cut in half, the threaded end is/was on the servo side and the other side was on the control surface with a 90 degree bend and duracollar to hold them - along with 5/16" dowel rod in the middle. Pure 1960's "dowel & steel" method. Those 2-56 rods bent - whether before or during the impact, I'll probably never figure out. They're bent though. Dowels are still intact, don't think 5/16" is gonna bend much in flight.

I'm planning to go to the Dubro 4-40 threaded rods (.093" diameter) when I rebuild. I like your idea of a single rod from servo to control surface with the anchored nyrod outer tube, my only issue is that Tower sells the 30" version of 4-40 threaded rods in packs of 24 - gonna have to see if I can find a source where I can get fewer in the pack (like, 2 to a pack). Ailerons going to 4-40 is no problem - easily available in 12" lengths, 2/pack.

This is all gonna work out, one way or another. She's definitely gonna fly again eventually.
Old 07-02-2015, 04:20 PM
  #236  
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To each their own way, but I will say that 4-40 is overkill and extra weight on a plane this size. I am using 4-40 on my giant scale. Simple 1/16" music wire with a threaded coupler and threaded clevis on one end a solder clevis on the other is more than adequate. You can even CA some short sections of inner nyrod on the music wire as "bearings" to tighten things up even more. Try it; you'll like it.
Old 07-03-2015, 12:39 AM
  #237  
skylark-flier
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Y'r probably right. Hmmmmmmmm ... thinkin'.
Old 07-03-2015, 03:38 PM
  #238  
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I'm sorry, I just can't resist. Even though this is a more expensive setup I have to tell you guys it has the least flex of any I have used. The application is limited though because it is so rigid. The picture is my homebuilt Sport P38 where the elevator pushrod is on the outside of the fuse. The servo is housed in the radiator bubble about 8 to 10 inches away from the elevator on the side of the boom. Any other setup I tried had too much flex or needed a support or just plain ugly.

So this is what your looking at......A black carbon fiber tube with a threaded rod through the tube made up at each end with a nut and a washer. Just tighten up the nuts against the end of the tubing and the whole assembly is very lightweight and does not flex hardly at all. Best of all the threaded rod is available at both ends and I can use any attaching system I want that threads on. The other end of this one has a ball link on the servo arm, this end is set up for easy adjustment. Best of all very very very little play in the system.


I scavenged the carbon fiber out of an ARF that crashed and I know carbon fiber is spendy which is why I cautioned it was a more expensive setup. But so far I've used it whenever I could and I love the threaded ends without having to worry about a soldered end coming loose. If it has a downfall it is that the threaded rod that sticks out has to be short as it does not stand up well to compression, but if it is a straight shot from servo to horn it is a great contraption.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:27 PM
  #239  
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Dave, what's happening? Where are you? In the workshop, I hope. How's it going? I hope there is progress on the repairs. The Stratus has to come back to fly again!
Old 07-28-2015, 10:38 AM
  #240  
skylark-flier
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Hey Sherwood! Yeah, I'm still here - this is summer so I'm pretty well tied up with my "horse" thing right now. HOWEVER, the Stratus is on the workbench, partially torn down, partially restored already. The rebuild is gonna take awhile anyway (limited $$$) so I'm playing with finding new control rods that WON'T FLEX EVEN A LITTLE BIT, along with a few other minor mods. While I'm 90% convinced the radio (switch) was the prime culprit, seeing those bent control rods is uncomfortable too. Might as well be comfortable while I'm flying.

Have no fear - this bird WILL fly again, but probably not until late fall. I can't go on without seeing her maneuvering in the sky. Once I found out HOW to initiate her stall turns and spins (it's a bit different from most other planes, as you probably know well) I had HUGE fun throwing her all over the sky. I found that for a stall turn - you hit rudder in one direction for just a split second and then go full the other way, and THEN drop the engine to about half throttle as she starts to rotate around. Works fabulously well, in either direction. And for spins, you need to still be climbing a bit (gotta have air movement on the tail I guess) when you deflect everything - then go to idle as she starts reacting (which is nearly immediately). Inverted spins (elevator down) are thrilling (the fact that she WILL do it is amazing to me) but rather odd looking (because of the dihedral, I guess), normal spins (elevator up) are so fast they're freaky.

Basically so far;
1. Wings are 75% stripped of covering, cap strips are off the ribs and sheeting is on the ribs. Sanding has commenced to bring everything back to some kind of smoothness before I put the wings back together and start recovering them.

2. Most of the fuselage joint-separation is repaired, fuse is in one piece again behind the firewall. Bottom sheeting has been removed AGAIN under the horizontal stab so I can do a bit of repair work inside the h-stab at the center. Firewall is back on but bottom sheeting is still off until I get her new tank and throttle & steering rods back on her. Radio compartment is untouched so far. That'll wait for the new radio so I can fit everything properly again.

3. Engine has been torn down so I can take a look-see inside. Actually, she's not in bad shape at all. There's a bit of a crack right behind the carb on the cylinder side that actually starts where the muffler mounting bolt tubes were torn away, PLUS the muffler mounting tubes themselves being broken off. Other than that, it seems fine. Crank is straight - - actually, spinner was still attached SECURELY and has no damage other than a minor scratch from an underground stone about the size of a brussels sprout, and a whole lot of dirt, so I might just think about using it when I put everything back together again. Neither prop blade was ever found though. Can't fix that one.

This brings up my first "search"; can something like that kind of damage be repaired or is it lost entirely? Who might be able to repair it, if repair is possible?

4. Radio is definitely toast, but that's really no disaster. I've got a feeling she was toasted before the plane hit the ground, which is WHY the plane hit the ground. Like I said earlier, this was the last survivor of 3 Tower Hobbies System-3000 radios I bought at the same time in 2001. Probably shouldn't have trusted it in the first place. My bad. For replacement, I'm dithering. My first choice would be another 72MHz Futaba like I've got in the Kadet, Champ & Cub (Futaba 4YF 4-Channel FM/4 S3004 Servos) or I might go with the 2.4GHz version (Futaba 4YF 4-Channel FHSS System). I've got ZERO experience with the 2.4GHz radios though so I'm leaning more toward the 72MHz, which is what I know.

Soooooooo, it's slow but it's gonna happen. Will keep all y'all up on progress.

Old 07-28-2015, 12:21 PM
  #241  
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Dave, I delayed entry into the 2.4 field, too. eventually, I gave in, purchasing a Hitec Aurora 9.

I really like 2.4. There's not much to learn.

After a couple years, I had converted all my models to 2.4 and gave my 72MHz radio away.

If you go that route, I suggest that you choose a radio that has mult-model memory, as you, too, may find that you'll want to convert all of your models over to it.
Old 07-28-2015, 08:32 PM
  #242  
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the lengthy update. I knew you would be on it, but I just wanted to hear it from you.
Regarding the pushrods, as I said earlier, go with the 1/16" music wire in outer nyrod tubes. You can get pushrod wire with one end threaded. All you need to finish it is a threaded kwik link and a solder kwik link. Couldn't be easier and there is no play in the system except for the gear slop or play in the servo.
Go with a good 2.4 radio. I have been flying a Futaba 7AC 72 MHz for I don't know how many years with no problems. Then I purchased a Hitec Aurora 9 radio just to get up to date with my flying buddies. Never had a problem and the only difference from 72 is that you have to bind the receiver to the transmitter the first time you add a receiver to the system. After that, just turn it on a fly. If you want it to get more complex with all of the features the system provides, it's all there for you. I have had my Hitec for 5 years and am still finding things I can use on each model. I still have the Futaba 72 and don't see a reason to get rid of it. I just have to remember to extend the antenna before takeoff. Becoming familiar with 2.4 somehow makes you forget that important part of the flying process.
Good luck on the rebuild and I look forward to any progress report.
Old 07-29-2015, 04:56 AM
  #243  
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I have a Futaba 7C in 2.4 I lucked into I love it it fills my needs and the receivers are even smaller than the ones I used with my 6 EXA on 72mhz. I still have the old 72 stuff but its hard not to give them up and retire them. I really don't use it anymore.
Old 04-07-2017, 05:58 PM
  #244  
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Geez Dave! It's been almost 2 years any thought of getting her repaired and back to flight ready status?
Old 04-07-2017, 08:56 PM
  #245  
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Hey Alan!! Geez, sorry 'bout dat. I went right to work and never even considered posting anything about her - too busy rebuilding, cussing and kicking myself for whatever really happened. Anyway, I was upset enough that anything I'd have posted would have been pretty lousy reading at that point. There were an awful lot of hours in the shop with me just sitting there, hemming and hawing over what to do and how to do it.

Anyway, yeah, she's back in the air again (June 18 2016) but with an older Fox .45 driving her right now on a 10 oz fuel tank. One day I'll find another OS.60 in good shape and I'll mount that so I can have all the power back again, but for now the Fox will have to do. I got one of the last 72MHz Futaba 4YF radios that Tower had before they were discontinued and I used Dubro 2mm control rods encased in nyrod tubes - no bend there at all.

Also, while I was at it I re-positioned the rudder belcrank in the horizontal stab AND the elevator pushrod, each to opposite sides in the tail. I wasn't super happy about the first positioning so this was a good time to re-position them so they CAN'T interfere with each other. There isn't a whole lot of room there - only 7/8" wide on the inside - so I had quite a time getting it right.

The worst part of the rebuild was actually putting the wings back together - that took awhile, and an awful lot of coffee. The entire center was toast and a whole new 3" on each side had to be fabricated, which really wasn't all that bad, now that I look back on it.

Somebody, way back, mentioned being bothered by the separation of the ailerons from the wings when it hit - and I did a bit of pondering on that. Then it hit me where I screwed up. I used SIG CA easy hinges and one of the things I learned a long time ago with any kind of material hinge is to drill a center hole in the hinge slot to allow the CA to wick all the way inside. I did that on the rudders and elevator, completely forgot on the ailerons - a dumb, newby stunt. I filled in the old slots, not trusting them anymore, and cut new ones WITH the drilling of the center - they won't come out again. I also increased the throw of the ailerons a bit - wasn't completely happy with the original 30 degree up/down and they're now 45 degrees up/down. It makes a fair amount of difference in how well she rolls and she's easier to keep stable while inverted now.

Actually, I'm not a "precision aerobatics" flyer in any way - aerobatics for me is more of a sporting proposition, so the throw increase is more for my peace of mind than anything else. I found, early on, that the Stratus is fully capable (and happy) of turns with just the rudders - she COULD be a successful 3-channel ship. Much of my flying with her is done with just rudders, which really requires a different mind-set for me to do reasonably well, but she's so graceful in rudder-only turns - I love it.

Outside, she's virtually identical to what she looked like before, except for the smaller engine. I rebuilt the engine bay so a .60 will fit right in with no mods - even used the original engine mount, which was dirty but undamaged.

She's now had something over 70 flights since the rebuild, and I'm looking to build another some time this year - but much lighter if I can manage it. I messed up on her originally - she came out at 8.25 lbs (which was a bit heavy in the first place - supposed to be 6.5-7.5 lbs) and is now running 8.6 lbs with the new wood. She was also built with cap strips over the ribs and VRCS rules say that in order to qualify in concours she needs to have the same planking as the original. I'd also increased the size of the ailerons just a bit on the original. The new one will have same-size-as-plans ailerons so she matches the plans better. My only real issue will be covering the new plane. Dope pricing has gone out of sight (for me) and I'm looking for a new paint that will get the job done and hold up as well. Don't want to monokote her - she needs to be painted. Will definitely be looking to the guys for a bit of educating on that when the time comes.

Once the weather warms up I'll try to get my other half out to the field to get some new pics of her in the air.

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Old 04-08-2017, 07:56 AM
  #246  
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Thanks for chiming in and I'm glad to hear she's in the air Dave, hats off to you for rebuilding her. As for covering your next model have you considered Nelson Paint over natural Solartex? I know some might cringe at using Nelson as there are some issues with spraying it but brushing it on seams to have great results. Much cheaper to buy than Dope, no smell, and should give it an appropriate look for the Stratus.
Old 04-10-2017, 05:38 AM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by Michaelj2k
Well that sucks! Have you done a functional check on the radio to see what the problem was? Is it possible the battery either became disconnected in flight or gave it up ? A bad switch? Did you do a range check before the flight? Total signal loss on a AM modulation radio is unusual. Even if it's out of tune, it's going to show something. Here is some inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLs0V8T5AA
Radio checked out and I did a range check before the flight (Mandatory in my book for every first flight of the day.). All the same equipment was used in the repaired aircraft and flown successfully at a different site. As I mentioned the microwave replay over that part of the field became well known and the field had to be abandoned because of the hazard. My airplane was just one of many victims and not the first on that day either.
Old 04-10-2017, 09:27 AM
  #248  
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I have a question for Dave (Skylark-flyer) & Heggen, I am cutting out the parts for the Stratus, yes finally finished all of those
all important "Honey Do's". How did you address the lack of a rib in the center section? Heggen do you think by "lofting" that I
can come up with a rib for the center section that will work and fit properly? I have decided to use 2 servos for the ailerons and
will be placing them outboard of the landing gear with covers. Next question being that this will be a 100% sport ship how does
one feel about incorporating retracts?

Bill D.

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Old 04-10-2017, 07:23 PM
  #249  
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Hey Bill! Actually, I originally made 2 center ribs by the rather crude method of building everything else on the wing and then gluing a 1/8" balsa sheet at the inner end (offset to allow for dihedral), a ruler laid across the line of ribs to trace the "proper" shape of the center rib, and then cut it out. Gotta tell ya, it was even more interesting recreating all that once it was smashed. Anyway, once the rib was cut and the wings were together I hollowed out enough of the pair of ribs to fit my 2 servos (side-by-side) for the ailerons. When I re-built the center I used just one 3/16" rib, inserted after the wings were together again, and put the servos on each side of it. I'd love to ask Maxey why he designed it without a center rib, but I'm pretty sure it's a bit late for that (LOL).

I definitely recommend 2 servos, however you do it.

Hm, retracts would be rather interesting on this ship - there's plenty of room under the fuel tank for the nose wheel, for sure. I'm positive the wings could take them too - more than enough strength there.

One thing Heggen did, and I copied, was to increase the aileron size (front to back). Plans call for .75" - probably because of the radios back then, I went with 1.25". I think Heggen did pretty much the same. Hopefully, he'll pop back in here too.

Like I said earlier, the 1967 Stratus is perfectly happy with turns using only rudder. My 1967 Sr Falcon performs almost as well, but I dropped the dihedral on that to near zero (.75") when I built it and she doesn't come out as level, as easy, as the Stratus on just rudder. My only other 1967-era plane is a DeBolt Champ which is 3-channel. I've got a sneaking feeling, though, that many of the planes of that era might be fully flyable on just 3 channels.

Just asking - do you have Heggens' rib drawings? Just for giggles, I'll try to attach them as a MS .doc to this. Shoot, too large a file. Might be able to e-mail them though.


Old 04-11-2017, 04:52 AM
  #250  
Bill Diedrich
 
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Good Morning Dave, yes I did get the rib drawings with the plans that Heggen sent, I might just do like you did on the center section, build the wing complete and then trace the profile onto a balsa blank.Another question, did you use the original dihedral on the wing (5 1/2") as shown on the plan?Many thanks,Bill D.

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