Byron (Iron Bay) Gee Bee R2
07-19-2016, 09:04 AM
#101
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Richard, one of the things I find problematic in my builds is masking and painting...something you've obviously mastered. Could you give a little more detail about technique, products used, etc?
07-19-2016, 09:35 AM
#102
For tight curves (like the red scallops on the wheelpants) you need something no wider than 1/8"
These tapes go around curves really well and stay stuck. Of course, the surface prep is very important... surface must be absolutely clean and smooth and the paint you are masking off must be fully set.
After drawing out the area to masked (lightly with a lead pencil) I then mask it using one of these narrow masking tapes. It also helps if this is being done in warmer temperatures as everything is more flexible. I use the narrow tape to mask off the area to be painted, I then use a combination of blue painters and regular masking tape to protect the areas from the edge of the narrow flexible vinyl tape, outward.
You also need a large roll of painters masking paper (ACE hardware, etc). It is very thin brown paper and it tears easily and cleanly. It is also very dense, and will not allow paint to get through.
Use this paper to protect everything else, using regular tan masking tape to secure. You REALLY have to be generous with the paper and tape to protect EVERTHING... failure to do so will reveal areas where paint found it's way past and onto your project where you don't want it!
I am using Enamels (ACE, Krylon, Dupli-Color, Rustoleum) that dry to the touch in about 15-30 minutes. You want to remove the mask as soon as the paint is dry to the touch, but NOT fully set up. The tape should be pulled back against itself and slightly away from the newly painted surface...
Perhaps when I paint the scallops on the wings, I will take more pictures of this process so that my explanation is perfectly clear...
The most difficult part about using "rattle cans" for painting is keeping a 'wet edge' especially when spraying large areas... it can be almost impossible to meet up where you started and still maintain a wet edge.
To correct these areas that show over spray (a dull powdery appearance because the paint had already begun to set and the newly applied paint "dusts" the glossy areas), I often have to go back with auto polish and vigorusly remove the dusting of paint to reveal a gloss. It doesn't always work perfectly... depends on the paint, the polish, etc.
I have also had to deal with the "FUN" of having my surface primed and perfectly prepped, only to have a brand new can of paint puking out small 'paint balls' and splatters!! When that happens, the only word that comes to mind is MURDER!! But, what I have had to do is wait for the crappy paint to set up enough to sand it (15 minutes) then hit it with 400-600 grit and water. It can be messy and make a person wonder *** they are putting themselves through this??!
Oh, and I forget to mention that a TACK RAG is also absolutely essential as is DIRECT SUNLIGHT in making sure the surface is free of debris AND the paint being applied is covering 100%, but not overly applied. This means little to no wind. Yes.... it's almost as if the stars must all align for a quality outcome
As I do not have a paint booth, painting airplanes is ALWAYS a very challenging endeavor!
In the end, it is worth the effort IF your project turns out nice.
Last edited by RichardGee; 07-19-2016 at 09:43 AM.
07-19-2016, 12:39 PM
#103
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Mark, to get a clean line you need a quality masking tape. Great Planes, Duratrax, Tamiya, all offer vinyl masking tapes in various widths. Auto painting supplies have them.
For tight curves (like the red scallops on the wheelpants) you need something no wider than 1/8"
These tapes go around curves really well and stay stuck. Of course, the surface prep is very important... surface must be absolutely clean and smooth and the paint you are masking off must be fully set.
After drawing out the area to masked (lightly with a lead pencil) I then mask it using one of these narrow masking tapes. It also helps if this is being done in warmer temperatures as everything is more flexible. I use the narrow tape to mask off the area to be painted, I then use a combination of blue painters and regular masking tape to protect the areas from the edge of the narrow flexible vinyl tape, outward.
You also need a large roll of painters masking paper (ACE hardware, etc). It is very thin brown paper and it tears easily and cleanly. It is also very dense, and will not allow paint to get through.
Use this paper to protect everything else, using regular tan masking tape to secure. You REALLY have to be generous with the paper and tape to protect EVERTHING... failure to do so will reveal areas where paint found it's way past and onto your project where you don't want it!
I am using Enamels (ACE, Krylon, Dupli-Color, Rustoleum) that dry to the touch in about 15-30 minutes. You want to remove the mask as soon as the paint is dry to the touch, but NOT fully set up. The tape should be pulled back against itself and slightly away from the newly painted surface...
Perhaps when I paint the scallops on the wings, I will take more pictures of this process so that my explanation is perfectly clear...
The most difficult part about using "rattle cans" for painting is keeping a 'wet edge' especially when spraying large areas... it can be almost impossible to meet up where you started and still maintain a wet edge.
To correct these areas that show over spray (a dull powdery appearance because the paint had already begun to set and the newly applied paint "dusts" the glossy areas), I often have to go back with auto polish and vigorusly remove the dusting of paint to reveal a gloss. It doesn't always work perfectly... depends on the paint, the polish, etc.
I have also had to deal with the "FUN" of having my surface primed and perfectly prepped, only to have a brand new can of paint puking out small 'paint balls' and splatters!! When that happens, the only word that comes to mind is MURDER!! But, what I have had to do is wait for the crappy paint to set up enough to sand it (15 minutes) then hit it with 400-600 grit and water. It can be messy and make a person wonder *** they are putting themselves through this??!
Oh, and I forget to mention that a TACK RAG is also absolutely essential as is DIRECT SUNLIGHT in making sure the surface is free of debris AND the paint being applied is covering 100%, but not overly applied. This means little to no wind. Yes.... it's almost as if the stars must all align for a quality outcome
As I do not have a paint booth, painting airplanes is ALWAYS a very challenging endeavor!
In the end, it is worth the effort IF your project turns out nice.
For tight curves (like the red scallops on the wheelpants) you need something no wider than 1/8"
These tapes go around curves really well and stay stuck. Of course, the surface prep is very important... surface must be absolutely clean and smooth and the paint you are masking off must be fully set.
After drawing out the area to masked (lightly with a lead pencil) I then mask it using one of these narrow masking tapes. It also helps if this is being done in warmer temperatures as everything is more flexible. I use the narrow tape to mask off the area to be painted, I then use a combination of blue painters and regular masking tape to protect the areas from the edge of the narrow flexible vinyl tape, outward.
You also need a large roll of painters masking paper (ACE hardware, etc). It is very thin brown paper and it tears easily and cleanly. It is also very dense, and will not allow paint to get through.
Use this paper to protect everything else, using regular tan masking tape to secure. You REALLY have to be generous with the paper and tape to protect EVERTHING... failure to do so will reveal areas where paint found it's way past and onto your project where you don't want it!
I am using Enamels (ACE, Krylon, Dupli-Color, Rustoleum) that dry to the touch in about 15-30 minutes. You want to remove the mask as soon as the paint is dry to the touch, but NOT fully set up. The tape should be pulled back against itself and slightly away from the newly painted surface...
Perhaps when I paint the scallops on the wings, I will take more pictures of this process so that my explanation is perfectly clear...
The most difficult part about using "rattle cans" for painting is keeping a 'wet edge' especially when spraying large areas... it can be almost impossible to meet up where you started and still maintain a wet edge.
To correct these areas that show over spray (a dull powdery appearance because the paint had already begun to set and the newly applied paint "dusts" the glossy areas), I often have to go back with auto polish and vigorusly remove the dusting of paint to reveal a gloss. It doesn't always work perfectly... depends on the paint, the polish, etc.
I have also had to deal with the "FUN" of having my surface primed and perfectly prepped, only to have a brand new can of paint puking out small 'paint balls' and splatters!! When that happens, the only word that comes to mind is MURDER!! But, what I have had to do is wait for the crappy paint to set up enough to sand it (15 minutes) then hit it with 400-600 grit and water. It can be messy and make a person wonder *** they are putting themselves through this??!
Oh, and I forget to mention that a TACK RAG is also absolutely essential as is DIRECT SUNLIGHT in making sure the surface is free of debris AND the paint being applied is covering 100%, but not overly applied. This means little to no wind. Yes.... it's almost as if the stars must all align for a quality outcome
As I do not have a paint booth, painting airplanes is ALWAYS a very challenging endeavor!
In the end, it is worth the effort IF your project turns out nice.
07-19-2016, 09:16 PM
#107
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Control surface counterweights are common in full scale aircraft... not so much with models. I am sure Byron used them back in the day when digital servos with 300 oz. torque were a pipe dream!
I've no doubt that with powerful servos and excellent slop-free linkages, they are NOT necessary today, but I went ahead and added them per Byron instructions as they seem like a neat idea. There's certainly nothing wrong with reducing the forces necessary to deflect control surfaces.
My aileron servos are 80 ounce and so the counterweights may actually be a really good thing.
The proof will be in the flying
I've no doubt that with powerful servos and excellent slop-free linkages, they are NOT necessary today, but I went ahead and added them per Byron instructions as they seem like a neat idea. There's certainly nothing wrong with reducing the forces necessary to deflect control surfaces.
My aileron servos are 80 ounce and so the counterweights may actually be a really good thing.
The proof will be in the flying
07-19-2016, 09:25 PM
#108
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07-20-2016, 06:40 AM
#110
I have applied red to the cowl, wheelpants and tailwheel fairing. On smaller two-color parts, I apply the first color to the entire surface. On the larger parts, like wing halves and fuselage, I don't apply a gloss coat to the entire surface, only the areas that will remain white. ON the underside and nose of the fuselage, I did not directly shoot any white, as those areas will be red. It probably saves a few GRAMS of weight... really more for my peace of mind than for any practical purpose.
07-21-2016, 11:32 AM
#112
I am assuming the ascending surface is helped to ascend by the counterweight, while gravity will help the descending surface.
Obviously air pressures are also acting on the surface, but this should close to equal whether the surface is deflected up or down.
Byron was trying to prevent surface flutter by lessening the servo load and also creating a pendulum effect which acts as a "dampener" should flutter begin.
I have found that minimal hinge gaps and NO SLOP linkages are the most critical for minimizing flutter.
SPEED is also a culprit, but I do not anticipate this thing to be a bullet.
Obviously air pressures are also acting on the surface, but this should close to equal whether the surface is deflected up or down.
Byron was trying to prevent surface flutter by lessening the servo load and also creating a pendulum effect which acts as a "dampener" should flutter begin.
I have found that minimal hinge gaps and NO SLOP linkages are the most critical for minimizing flutter.
SPEED is also a culprit, but I do not anticipate this thing to be a bullet.
07-21-2016, 12:04 PM
#113
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Ah, flutter. The increased mass should reduce that tendency. My guess is that's the sole purpose. Thanks. Remember, if you have to add weight to the nose of a Gee Bee, the engine's too small!
07-24-2016, 03:12 PM
#114
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I know you're getting close to the end of this project. If you're like me , you can't wait to fly it. Please have a friend video the maiden. At this point, I (and I'd guess) our friend from OKC feel invested in this build. If you can wait till late Aug., early Sept., I might even be up there visiting a friend in Meadow Vista and actually get to see it (and meet you). Like you, all things Granville Brothers interests me. At least post "29".
Last edited by MLibman; 07-24-2016 at 03:15 PM.
07-25-2016, 02:08 PM
#116
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25 years ago I spent half a summer in Newkirk, Ok. I still have fond memories ( particularly of the thunderstorms). There are no fireflies (lightning bugs) in California! Bought a motorcycle in K.C. and rode it home.
Last edited by MLibman; 07-25-2016 at 02:10 PM.
07-30-2016, 06:08 PM
#117
This is where it gets exciting... as the Gee Bee gets closer and closer to its maiden...
Well the first "problem" encountered when setting up the wings for painting the red scallops, was that Byron's patterns are only intended for the 80 inch "sport" wing.
This whole "sport wing thing" has really gotten under my skin !! WHY offer the option of building the 'scale' 75" wing if you include NO INFORMATION and NO SUPPORT on doing so?
Anyway, you can see from the picture that the included scallop pattern does NOT work on the scale wing...... so, I pulled down my Henry Haffke 25% GBR1 plans and used them to make an accurate scallop pattern for the scale wings.
After marking the scallops, I taped them off with automotive painting/striping tape. You can also purchase this tape from your local hobby shop, especially if they sell RC Cars. For maximum flexibility I am using the 1/8" (3mm) painting tape.
After taping off the scallops, painters paper and blue painters tape are used to protect all white surfaces. Regular masking tape is used to tape paper to paper. It is VERY important to be VERY thorough in covering all exposed areas and any small openings where paint could find its way through.
The paint is applied in 3 coats. The first two are lightly applied and the most important thing is to build up a protective edge along the mask. DO NOT apply paint too heavily as it could seep under the tape.
The 3rd and final coat is a "gloss" coat.
After the final coat has set up for about 30 minutes - and long before the paint is fully set - it is time to remove the tape. After removing all the protective paper and tape, the fine painters tape is removed by pulling it back on itself and slightly away from the painted line.
Once the paint is fully set (5 days), I use McGuires Cleaner/Wax on the whole finished surface. I do this before applying the striping tape.
Well the first "problem" encountered when setting up the wings for painting the red scallops, was that Byron's patterns are only intended for the 80 inch "sport" wing.
This whole "sport wing thing" has really gotten under my skin
!! WHY offer the option of building the 'scale' 75" wing if you include NO INFORMATION and NO SUPPORT on doing so?Anyway, you can see from the picture that the included scallop pattern does NOT work on the scale wing...... so, I pulled down my Henry Haffke 25% GBR1 plans and used them to make an accurate scallop pattern for the scale wings.
After marking the scallops, I taped them off with automotive painting/striping tape. You can also purchase this tape from your local hobby shop, especially if they sell RC Cars. For maximum flexibility I am using the 1/8" (3mm) painting tape.
After taping off the scallops, painters paper and blue painters tape are used to protect all white surfaces. Regular masking tape is used to tape paper to paper. It is VERY important to be VERY thorough in covering all exposed areas and any small openings where paint could find its way through.
The paint is applied in 3 coats. The first two are lightly applied and the most important thing is to build up a protective edge along the mask. DO NOT apply paint too heavily as it could seep under the tape.
The 3rd and final coat is a "gloss" coat.
After the final coat has set up for about 30 minutes - and long before the paint is fully set - it is time to remove the tape. After removing all the protective paper and tape, the fine painters tape is removed by pulling it back on itself and slightly away from the painted line.
Once the paint is fully set (5 days), I use McGuires Cleaner/Wax on the whole finished surface. I do this before applying the striping tape.
Last edited by RichardGee; 07-30-2016 at 06:11 PM.
07-31-2016, 12:14 PM
#120
Taping and protecting the fuselage was the most time consuming. After a couple of coats of red, I allowed it to set for about 30 minutes, then sanded with 400 grit wet... this removes the dust, debris and small fibers that ALWAYS foul the paint. It also removes the small paint splatters that always occur at the end of a can. After smoothing the base coats, I used a NEW can to paint the final WET coat.
Probably the most challenging thing about painting with rattle cans is keeping a "wet edge" so that when meeting up with the first painted surface, it does not dull the fresh paint.
Other than some touch up, the painting is DONE. I found that a VW engine stand was ideal for holding and rotating the fuselage while painting.
After cleaning/waxing the wheelpants, I applied the black striping tape. btw: Goldberg "Colorstripe" is now a Great Planes product. This striping tape is SUPERIOR to "Ultrastripe" sold by Horizon.
Per Mark's inquiry about matching the wing scallops to the fuselage....
Probably the most challenging thing about painting with rattle cans is keeping a "wet edge" so that when meeting up with the first painted surface, it does not dull the fresh paint.
Other than some touch up, the painting is DONE. I found that a VW engine stand was ideal for holding and rotating the fuselage while painting.
After cleaning/waxing the wheelpants, I applied the black striping tape. btw: Goldberg "Colorstripe" is now a Great Planes product. This striping tape is SUPERIOR to "Ultrastripe" sold by Horizon.
Per Mark's inquiry about matching the wing scallops to the fuselage....
08-01-2016, 09:24 AM
#122
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When your in Newkirk, Ponca City is the only place to go! Ditto on the paintjob, Richard.
08-01-2016, 09:49 AM
#123
Thanks to the Indian Gaming act there is something to do in Newkirk now. The Kaw tribe has a casino in Newkirk along with a second one close to the Kansas border on I35 at the travel stop near Braman OK. The Ponca and the Osage Tribes have 2 casinos and a hotel each in or around Ponca City.
08-01-2016, 05:33 PM
#124
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I was there doing an engineering survey of the Old Indian college for a restoral estimate. Don't know what became of the project but it was a beautiful little campus the fed built in the 20s or 30s that had been abandoned. No casinos yet.