Byron (Iron Bay) Gee Bee R2
08-27-2016, 08:14 PM
#178
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I admire your patience. When I've finished builds in the past, I can't wait to get them in the air. (sometimes to ill effect). Good luck when you do maiden and remember to record and post, good or bad. We're invested at this point. Mark
08-28-2016, 10:26 PM
#182
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And to make things worse, it sometimes takes banging them up to perfect your technique in a particular plane.
09-03-2016, 08:02 AM
#185
Gee Bee gents, I wish I could give you a flight report.. the weather here in No. CA has been mostly fantastic and the months of Sept. and Oct. might be the BEST months of the year for flying. Am I a bit nervous about flying her? Yes.
But with more than 65 Gee Bee R1/R2 landings under my belt, it's not a matter of first flight jitters. My WORK has me totally buried thanks to an unexpected retirement; so now I am doing the jobs of two people. That will likely continue for a couple of months
The worst thing I could do right now is mess up my immaculate Gee Bee, then feel the angst and pressure of repairs while trying to do two jobs.
I have been at this hobby just ten years shy of my 55 years on this Earth. Apparently I am slow learner as WAY too many times in the past, I HAVE forced a first flight or in some other way pressured myself into building, repairing, or flying (then repairing) a plane when my HEAD wasn't there....... and ended up hating the airplane when working on it began to feel like a part-time JOB
Finally, after 45 years of RC modeling (with time off for bad behavior), I have learned that forcing or rushing anything is a recipe for bad things and I'm not going to do it this time.
This Gee Bee will be flown when my head isn't spinning in several different directions.... that may be awhile....
In the meantime, enjoy one my most hair-raising Gee Bee videos... this was one of my CARF's... the superb 3W157CS was NOT the problem!! The problem was the 42% Products Ignition battery eliminator that caused the engine to quit unexpectedly
!! What's funny about this is, just prior to the flight, the guy running the video camera was asking me 'if I had ever dead sticked the Gee Bee?' - and I told him "NO, but if the engine quits, the airplane is TOAST." There was simply no way I was going to successfully dead stick this 35 pound flying cannonball
! Well, silly me, cause when she quit, I (literally) became like Luke Skywalker - JEDI - breathed out all my anxiety, surrendered to the inevitable, and calmly flew her back to the runway.... (I hope I NEVER have to repeat this) - that's ME who yells, "That's impossible!" I had just done it, but STILL didn't believe it 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWdNsfaU7gs
But with more than 65 Gee Bee R1/R2 landings under my belt, it's not a matter of first flight jitters. My WORK has me totally buried thanks to an unexpected retirement; so now I am doing the jobs of two people. That will likely continue for a couple of months
The worst thing I could do right now is mess up my immaculate Gee Bee, then feel the angst and pressure of repairs while trying to do two jobs.
I have been at this hobby just ten years shy of my 55 years on this Earth. Apparently I am slow learner as WAY too many times in the past, I HAVE forced a first flight or in some other way pressured myself into building, repairing, or flying (then repairing) a plane when my HEAD wasn't there....... and ended up hating the airplane when working on it began to feel like a part-time JOB
Finally, after 45 years of RC modeling (with time off for bad behavior), I have learned that forcing or rushing anything is a recipe for bad things and I'm not going to do it this time.
This Gee Bee will be flown when my head isn't spinning in several different directions.... that may be awhile....
In the meantime, enjoy one my most hair-raising Gee Bee videos... this was one of my CARF's... the superb 3W157CS was NOT the problem!! The problem was the 42% Products Ignition battery eliminator that caused the engine to quit unexpectedly
!! What's funny about this is, just prior to the flight, the guy running the video camera was asking me 'if I had ever dead sticked the Gee Bee?' - and I told him "NO, but if the engine quits, the airplane is TOAST." There was simply no way I was going to successfully dead stick this 35 pound flying cannonball! Well, silly me, cause when she quit, I (literally) became like Luke Skywalker - JEDI - breathed out all my anxiety, surrendered to the inevitable, and calmly flew her back to the runway.... (I hope I NEVER have to repeat this) - that's ME who yells, "That's impossible!" I had just done it, but STILL didn't believe it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWdNsfaU7gs
09-04-2016, 08:12 PM
#186
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Told you guys earlier about our free for all public field? Last week an amateur managed to get his hands on a functional turbine and promptly flew it like a newbie flying a foamie on his third flight. Outa control, pitching wildly until he dropped the flaps to land. That's when(predictably) he spiraled straight in on the adjoining golf course and shattered next to the 12th green. Miracle there was no fire ball. Those of us who care about this place are pissed. L.A.s been trying to shut us down for twenty years..The thing about common sense is that it"s not all that common. (Will Rogers)
09-15-2016, 09:05 PM
#195
Gents,
Still no flight report, sorry. Been WAY too busy with work, both the type that makes me money and the type that costs me money (kitchen remodel). However, that doesn't mean I haven't been giving lots of thought to flying this Gee Bee...
The one thing about this plane that continues to haunt me is the landing gear. I have surmised since day one that they are too flimsy. They allow far more 'sway' side to side than the welded wire gear (no oleos) I had on my 19 pound 25% Haffke. And IN comparison to CARF gear, where the flying wires are integral to the gear and aircraft structure, there is NO comparison. The CARF gear set-up is absolutely solid.
One thing I KNOW integral to successfully landing a Gee Bee is a superb under-carriage. If the gear legs flex and the wheels bow in or out, or the gear leans left or right, it WILL create an almost impossible to handle aircraft ON ASPHALT or other HARD, unforgiving surfaces.
GRASS?? COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY. A manicured grass runway is THE KEY ingredient to successful take-offs and landings.
While we all might be thinking... "Gee, don't superb flying skills comes into play?"......
Yes and no. After more than 60 landings with a CARF, I was NEVER comfortable landing the plane on our Geotek runway. This synthetic mat surface is actually MORE unforgiving than asphalt from the aspect of not allowing ANY wheel skid. With concrete, and to a lesser extent asphalt, SOME wheel skidding will be observed. With Geotek? ZERO. Rubber tires stick like glue and ANY deviation from rolling straight ahead imposes massive side loads on the gear. This is really bad with a Gee Bee, or ANY short-coupled aircraft (like a Pitts). If the gear legs aren't rock solid, the side loads imposed WILL cause the gear/axles/wheels to lean and bend and thus, DEVIATE from straight ahead!
So why the long-winded explanation? My thinking about landing this plane has made me seriously question the wisdom in even ATTEMPTING it on our runway, when years of Gee Bee experience tell me what to expect....
By spring of next year, we should have a decent "grass" runway adjacent to our Geotek runway. Until we get a good rainy season, grass growth is sporadic and the parallel grass/dirt portion adjacent to our runway is not well manicured. Do I want to wait that long? NO.
Still thinking about a solution...
Still no flight report, sorry. Been WAY too busy with work, both the type that makes me money and the type that costs me money (kitchen remodel). However, that doesn't mean I haven't been giving lots of thought to flying this Gee Bee...
The one thing about this plane that continues to haunt me is the landing gear. I have surmised since day one that they are too flimsy. They allow far more 'sway' side to side than the welded wire gear (no oleos) I had on my 19 pound 25% Haffke. And IN comparison to CARF gear, where the flying wires are integral to the gear and aircraft structure, there is NO comparison. The CARF gear set-up is absolutely solid.
One thing I KNOW integral to successfully landing a Gee Bee is a superb under-carriage. If the gear legs flex and the wheels bow in or out, or the gear leans left or right, it WILL create an almost impossible to handle aircraft ON ASPHALT or other HARD, unforgiving surfaces.
GRASS?? COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY. A manicured grass runway is THE KEY ingredient to successful take-offs and landings.
While we all might be thinking... "Gee, don't superb flying skills comes into play?"......
Yes and no. After more than 60 landings with a CARF, I was NEVER comfortable landing the plane on our Geotek runway. This synthetic mat surface is actually MORE unforgiving than asphalt from the aspect of not allowing ANY wheel skid. With concrete, and to a lesser extent asphalt, SOME wheel skidding will be observed. With Geotek? ZERO. Rubber tires stick like glue and ANY deviation from rolling straight ahead imposes massive side loads on the gear. This is really bad with a Gee Bee, or ANY short-coupled aircraft (like a Pitts). If the gear legs aren't rock solid, the side loads imposed WILL cause the gear/axles/wheels to lean and bend and thus, DEVIATE from straight ahead!
So why the long-winded explanation? My thinking about landing this plane has made me seriously question the wisdom in even ATTEMPTING it on our runway, when years of Gee Bee experience tell me what to expect....
By spring of next year, we should have a decent "grass" runway adjacent to our Geotek runway. Until we get a good rainy season, grass growth is sporadic and the parallel grass/dirt portion adjacent to our runway is not well manicured. Do I want to wait that long? NO.
Still thinking about a solution...
09-16-2016, 11:07 AM
#197
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I know you'd hate to consider it but is there any way to make the lower flying wires functional? It's either that or maiden sans wheel pants. The problem I've also had is wheel binding on the spats, the breaking effect accentuating the nose-over tendency.
09-16-2016, 02:27 PM
#198
You can see where I added an imaginary rear strut and attachment point - which would be required - and then reference the CARF Gee Bee gear which HAVE this fixed attachment point for the flying wires.
As far as the tires rubbing on the wheel pants, that does not concern me because I have done a superb job
of fitting the pants and the wheels to avoid this problem. But there is no way to keep the gear pointed straight ahead if excess side loads are imposed. ONLY functional flying wires (or VERY robust gear) could accomplish that.I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, as this is all just THEORY! I haven't actually tried to land the damn thing!!
But my "theory" is also based on having built and flown three R2s with a combined total of over 70 landings.
09-17-2016, 07:02 AM
#200
"a lot of side flex" is very subjective. My standards may be (are) very different from another's. Case in point, another guy at my field built a Byron Gee Bee. When he brought it to the field for the first time I IMMEDIATELY pointed out how "wobbly" the under-carriage seemed to me. Until that point, he was never concerned about it. Keep in mind, I was coming from having built and flown 2 CARFs.
Problem with this plane is that there is almost NO flight info available anywhere. I found one guy who made several videos of his flying with a GT80. NO details whatsoever... 75 or 80" span? Weight" The plane is not painted and he flies it off of a large grass field and can take off or land in any direction. There is no apparent gear problem, at least from the videos. But I say: DO THIS FROM an asphalt runway and get back to me.....
I may be making something out of nothing - and I do not claim to be the world's authority on flying Gee Bees - but it has been my observation and experience that the main reason Gee Bee's are so often consider "horrible to land" airplanes is because the gear set-up affords ZERO room for error. IF the wheels do not remain absolutely straight ahead when landing on a hard surface, I don't care how good you are... your GB is going to go A** over teakettle whether you like it or not. GRASS is an entirely different story.
Problem with this plane is that there is almost NO flight info available anywhere. I found one guy who made several videos of his flying with a GT80. NO details whatsoever... 75 or 80" span? Weight" The plane is not painted and he flies it off of a large grass field and can take off or land in any direction. There is no apparent gear problem, at least from the videos. But I say: DO THIS FROM an asphalt runway and get back to me.....
I may be making something out of nothing - and I do not claim to be the world's authority on flying Gee Bees - but it has been my observation and experience that the main reason Gee Bee's are so often consider "horrible to land" airplanes is because the gear set-up affords ZERO room for error. IF the wheels do not remain absolutely straight ahead when landing on a hard surface, I don't care how good you are... your GB is going to go A** over teakettle whether you like it or not. GRASS is an entirely different story.