Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
10-29-2003, 09:37 PM
#1
Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
Guys, I am thinking about building a kit (Midwest Super Hots). I've done a lot of ARF's and actually tried a kit some time ago when first got into flying.
Anyway, I want to build it right (read that straight). I need some tips of building equipment I will need. Please provide a source if you can. I got all the small stuff. I'm talking about boards/jigs or whatever for building the fuselage and wing correctly.
Anyway, I want to build it right (read that straight). I need some tips of building equipment I will need. Please provide a source if you can. I got all the small stuff. I'm talking about boards/jigs or whatever for building the fuselage and wing correctly.
10-29-2003, 10:48 PM
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RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
Steve,
The foundation for building a straight model is a good building surface (pun was intended). You need a flat surface with a top that will take pins. Hollow core doors make good flat surfaces. For pinning, top the door with ceiling tiles or homosote board. I also cover with brown kraft paper to catch the glue drops so that I don't have to replace the homosote board too often.
The next most import tool for straight building is a long (36 or 48 inches) straight edge. You use this for lining up trailing edges, trimming balsa sheet and so one. A couple of drafting triangles or 6 or 8 inch squares are also helpful. Another thing you can do to insure that wing ribs and fuselage formers are perpendicular to the building board is to make jig blocks from 1 in x 1 in by whatever balsa block. Cut the block into 1 inch sections. You pin the block to your board and pin the part to the block and the part is upright.
Mostly, you need patience to line everything up, make sure it's square, and then glue.
Have fun.
Dave
The foundation for building a straight model is a good building surface (pun was intended). You need a flat surface with a top that will take pins. Hollow core doors make good flat surfaces. For pinning, top the door with ceiling tiles or homosote board. I also cover with brown kraft paper to catch the glue drops so that I don't have to replace the homosote board too often.
The next most import tool for straight building is a long (36 or 48 inches) straight edge. You use this for lining up trailing edges, trimming balsa sheet and so one. A couple of drafting triangles or 6 or 8 inch squares are also helpful. Another thing you can do to insure that wing ribs and fuselage formers are perpendicular to the building board is to make jig blocks from 1 in x 1 in by whatever balsa block. Cut the block into 1 inch sections. You pin the block to your board and pin the part to the block and the part is upright.
Mostly, you need patience to line everything up, make sure it's square, and then glue.
Have fun.
Dave
10-30-2003, 08:37 AM
#3
RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
Very nice tips Dave. I had not thought of the door and tile trick. A very cost effective way to get a building board.
Another question. I have read some interesting ideas on gluing planes together. One of them was that after everything is framed up you can use CA to glue the whole thing together. I know you have to have everything perfect because you only get one chance. But would someone like to comment on using CA vice epoxy for gluing wings and fuselage parts together.
Another question. I have read some interesting ideas on gluing planes together. One of them was that after everything is framed up you can use CA to glue the whole thing together. I know you have to have everything perfect because you only get one chance. But would someone like to comment on using CA vice epoxy for gluing wings and fuselage parts together.
10-30-2003, 09:04 AM
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RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
ORIGINAL: splais
Very nice tips Dave. I had not thought of the door and tile trick. A very cost effective way to get a building board.
Another question. I have read some interesting ideas on gluing planes together. One of them was that after everything is framed up you can use CA to glue the whole thing together. I know you have to have everything perfect because you only get one chance. But would someone like to comment on using CA vice epoxy for gluing wings and fuselage parts together.
Very nice tips Dave. I had not thought of the door and tile trick. A very cost effective way to get a building board.
Another question. I have read some interesting ideas on gluing planes together. One of them was that after everything is framed up you can use CA to glue the whole thing together. I know you have to have everything perfect because you only get one chance. But would someone like to comment on using CA vice epoxy for gluing wings and fuselage parts together.
Read and follow all kit instructions ....!!!
Seriously, CA, Epoxy, Wood-glue, etc all have a role to play. The Kit manufacturer has spent a lot of time designing, testing, and implementing their kit-building instructions. They really really really know what they are doing.
If the instructions call for epoxy, use epoxy. If they say "glue", then use either CA or wood-glue. If they say "CA", then use CA. If they say "Thin CA", then use THIN CA. etc.
There are reasons they do what they do. You say you are a newbie kit builder.... well, kits are dsigned not only to make airplanes, but they are also designed to fit together in a pre-determined way. Most often, kits have special strengthening mechanisms built in to them (like doublers, special constuction jigs, etc). They are critical to the success of the kit. They can not simply be "CA'd" when everything is mechanically assembled on some framing table.
Thousands of people have built the kit before you tried, and most times they have succeeded in creating a straight, sleek, and impressive aircraft. What's more, they have all, for the most part, followed the instructions to the tee.
As a Newbie kit builder, you should not be trying to second-guess the manufacturers of your kit.
gus
P.S. I know I have a harsh tone to this mail, it is just so that you realise that you have to trust the people who have the experience. There is a 99.999% chance you are not the next da-vinci and are incapable of re-designing the assembly routine of an airplane on the first attemempt!
10-30-2003, 09:10 AM
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RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
In framming I use thin ca to glue it all together checking as you go then I go over all the joints with med. ca to fill any gaps there may be and it gives it a stonger weld. Dont get sloppy or you will add a lot of weight.
Firewall, joining wing halves, stab and fin, landing gear blocks, etc. epoxy is a must. any high stress area. Again dont over do it or the weight goes up.
Hope this helps.
Eric
Firewall, joining wing halves, stab and fin, landing gear blocks, etc. epoxy is a must. any high stress area. Again dont over do it or the weight goes up.
Hope this helps.
Eric
10-30-2003, 09:17 AM
#6
RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
Thanks, Gus, No problem.
I beileve in following the instructions. I don't have the kit yet, it's coming. So I haven't seen just how deep they go into building instructions on it.
Steve
PS: I would also be interested in some pre-covering tips for the surface for the best covering (Ultracoat) job. Or if soemone knows of a good book/video on the subject.
I beileve in following the instructions. I don't have the kit yet, it's coming. So I haven't seen just how deep they go into building instructions on it.
Steve
PS: I would also be interested in some pre-covering tips for the surface for the best covering (Ultracoat) job. Or if soemone knows of a good book/video on the subject.
10-30-2003, 11:22 AM
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RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
ORIGINAL: splais
......
PS: I would also be interested in some pre-covering tips for the surface for the best covering (Ultracoat) job. Or if soemone knows of a good book/video on the subject.
......
PS: I would also be interested in some pre-covering tips for the surface for the best covering (Ultracoat) job. Or if soemone knows of a good book/video on the subject.
get really smooth surfaces, joins, and curves. Then read the instructions that come with the covering. For sure, you must also read: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=67]Covering how-to[/link]
gus
10-30-2003, 01:01 PM
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RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
Assuming you have a nice flat surface to work on, get youself a piece of Solatex or commonly referred top as soundproof board at Home Depot. It comes in 4x8 sheets and can be cut with a utility knife. It is similar to ceiling tiles without the little pock marks. Make sure it is white on one side. It makes a great pinning surface.
T-pins in two sizes from a hobbie store.
Box of 100 #11 blades and change them often. Also a small razor saw.
Small razor plane for about $5 from the hobby store for shaping blocks of balsa will save you a lot of time.
Wax paper to cover plans and anytime you mix epoxy do it over the wax paper. Also if you clamp something put wax paper under the clamps in case it runs. Assorted size paper clamps, the black spring steel kind, available at office supply stores make excellent clanps.
Mixing cups and popsicle sticks will make mixing epoxy much easier. A trip to a hardware store and get Denatured alchohol, Acetone, and Naptha (lighter fluid).
T-sanders small4", medium11" and large24" with a roll of 100 grit adhesive back paper.
Small and large metal straight edges.
These are things you probably did not have from building ARF's and I have accumulated over MANY trips to the hobby shop. Knowing what I do now I would have saved time and money if I just got it all in the beginning. Did I mention a Dremmel with assorted tips?
T-pins in two sizes from a hobbie store.
Box of 100 #11 blades and change them often. Also a small razor saw.
Small razor plane for about $5 from the hobby store for shaping blocks of balsa will save you a lot of time.
Wax paper to cover plans and anytime you mix epoxy do it over the wax paper. Also if you clamp something put wax paper under the clamps in case it runs. Assorted size paper clamps, the black spring steel kind, available at office supply stores make excellent clanps.
Mixing cups and popsicle sticks will make mixing epoxy much easier. A trip to a hardware store and get Denatured alchohol, Acetone, and Naptha (lighter fluid).
T-sanders small4", medium11" and large24" with a roll of 100 grit adhesive back paper.
Small and large metal straight edges.
These are things you probably did not have from building ARF's and I have accumulated over MANY trips to the hobby shop. Knowing what I do now I would have saved time and money if I just got it all in the beginning. Did I mention a Dremmel with assorted tips?
11-01-2003, 09:38 AM
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RE: Newbee Kit Builder Equipment Tips
Steve,
As Gus says, read and follow the instructions. Midwest kits have some of the best instructions around. (If you want a class in kit construction, build their Aerostar trainer) They are pretty explicit about which glue to use where. In general, Epoxy is used where the highest strength is needed, or where some time is needed to make sure things are lined up. CA is used almost everywhere else.
CA is used in a couple of ways. Thick or gap filling is put on one part and the parts are assembled and held together for about a minute and they're bonded. You can also use the thick CA to make fillets. After the parts are assembled, you run a thin bead of the thick CA in the corner and allow to set. Thin CA is always used after the parts are assembled. It is water thin and wicks into the joint and sets. Using thin CA you need to make sure the parts fit well - no gaps. Be very sparing in the use of the CA accelerator. Joints made with the accelerator are weaker, it causes the CA to set quickly so that the CA may not be as fully absorbed into the wood before it sets.
When you use CA, make sure you've got good ventilation. Some people develop an allergy to it with symptoms like a cold, nasal congestion... Also, make sure you have a bottle of the de-bonder handy. I make sure it is open when I start using CA - it is real hard to open the de-bonder bottle one handed (after you've glued your other hand to some part of the model.)
Epoxy comes in several varieties as well. They differ in their working time, 5 minute, 15 minute and 30 minute are common. I generally avoid the 5 minute when building kits - I'm not fast enough. Mix equal parts of the epoxy and the hardener on a flat disposable thingy - a clean (very clean) margarine tub lids are good. They can be re-used a few times by flexing them after the epoxy hardens to separate the unused epoxy from the lid. There can be no margarine on them before you use them - we want to stick things together, not make them slippery. I run the lids through the dishwasher before using them for mixing. It doesn't take much epoxy to make a joint. If you squeeze out a lot of epoxy when you put the parts together, you've used too much. Epoxy can be very messy, make sure you've got some rubbing alcohol (or denatured alcohol) to clean up any drips.
Dave
As Gus says, read and follow the instructions. Midwest kits have some of the best instructions around. (If you want a class in kit construction, build their Aerostar trainer) They are pretty explicit about which glue to use where. In general, Epoxy is used where the highest strength is needed, or where some time is needed to make sure things are lined up. CA is used almost everywhere else.
CA is used in a couple of ways. Thick or gap filling is put on one part and the parts are assembled and held together for about a minute and they're bonded. You can also use the thick CA to make fillets. After the parts are assembled, you run a thin bead of the thick CA in the corner and allow to set. Thin CA is always used after the parts are assembled. It is water thin and wicks into the joint and sets. Using thin CA you need to make sure the parts fit well - no gaps. Be very sparing in the use of the CA accelerator. Joints made with the accelerator are weaker, it causes the CA to set quickly so that the CA may not be as fully absorbed into the wood before it sets.
When you use CA, make sure you've got good ventilation. Some people develop an allergy to it with symptoms like a cold, nasal congestion... Also, make sure you have a bottle of the de-bonder handy. I make sure it is open when I start using CA - it is real hard to open the de-bonder bottle one handed (after you've glued your other hand to some part of the model.)
Epoxy comes in several varieties as well. They differ in their working time, 5 minute, 15 minute and 30 minute are common. I generally avoid the 5 minute when building kits - I'm not fast enough. Mix equal parts of the epoxy and the hardener on a flat disposable thingy - a clean (very clean) margarine tub lids are good. They can be re-used a few times by flexing them after the epoxy hardens to separate the unused epoxy from the lid. There can be no margarine on them before you use them - we want to stick things together, not make them slippery. I run the lids through the dishwasher before using them for mixing. It doesn't take much epoxy to make a joint. If you squeeze out a lot of epoxy when you put the parts together, you've used too much. Epoxy can be very messy, make sure you've got some rubbing alcohol (or denatured alcohol) to clean up any drips.
Dave
