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Tiger .60

Old 12-21-2003, 12:08 PM
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mars
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Default Tiger .60

Hi all.
I know alot of you have built a tiger. So I'm hoping there is some advice out there.
Tail-dragger, flaps, high altitude flier, big prop, best tail wheel set up, etc.......

Also on a engine....
The plan was for a magnum 4stroker like a .91, but reading about broken cam shafts and such........

Thanks all! Happy Holidays!
Old 12-21-2003, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

A 91 4-stroke is ideal for this plane. I can't comment on Magnum because I have no experience with their 4-strokes. I do, however like Graupner 13.5 x 8 props on a 91/4

As far as the other things go, Flaps are not needed, and I set them up with nosewheels, mainly because it comes with the kit, and the ones I have built were for rookies, and I don't like to get someone into a taildragger until they are proficient at flying.

The only mod I made to this kit was to taper the elevators and rudder, and that was purely for cosmetic purposes.
Old 12-21-2003, 06:38 PM
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Boss248
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Mars...The only thing I wish I had done on my T60 was move the main landing gear blocks back 1/2". It was terrible about going everywhere dragging it's butt. I read that the ARF T60 does the same thing...the reason I did not do the mo.d to mine will building was due to the change in elev. and rudder pushrods...I use the Sullivan lagre carbon strle flex rods in mine so I thought not using the supplied 1/2"sq. would solve the wanna be tail tragger problem but it did not. Other that that I was ok with everything else.
Old 12-21-2003, 11:40 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

So a big no on the flaps.
Carbon push rods sound great. A flexable cable on the throttle.
The reason for a tail dragger is for snow skis, I still could go trike.
I was thinking of running carbon down the fuse to help the back bone.
What about taking 1 rib out?

I was reading in a thread about Magnum 4strokers being poop. I was interested in it because of the price....but....
This will be my frist .60 class and my frist 4stroke. I would really like it all to just fit and work perfect, first try.
Old 12-22-2003, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

With regard to the Magnum .91RFS, I have a new one in an old Joss Stick. It has had a half gallon of 20% oil, break-in fuel run through it on the bench. The fuel is regular Omega with extra castor to bring it up to 20% oil. I used the Saito break-in where you run at 4000 rpm for the first 2 tanks, then lean out for each successive tank. During the bench run, the compression came up very well. As a matter of fact, the compression seems as good as the 2 Saito .91s I have, and they have excellent compression seals. The Mag .91 now has "snappy" compression so you have to hold the plane to turn the engine over. I attribute this to the half gallon of slobbering rich running to let the ring seat well. A proper break-in pays off. I did check and set the valve gap after the bench run.

I installed the Mag in my old Joss Stick, which is my .91-1.20 engine test and run-in plane. I'm running a Master Airscrew 14-6 at this time to see how it flies compared to other engines that have been in the plane(2 Saito .91s, Mag .91XLS, OS 1.08 & .91FX, TT .61). After a few more flights, I'll switch to an APC 14-6 or more probable, an APC 15-4W to get it tuned for fun fly use.

I put only one flight in today because it was cold (below 60 is winter in Florida). I landed and leaned it out twice during a long flight. At the end, it seemed to pull the plane vertical as well as with my Saitos, both of which have been in the Joss. After I leaned it out, I took off and pulled vertical and I remember thinking that this engine is pulling pretty darn good. I'll be out of town next weekend visiting grand kids, but I am anxious to work it out some more, even on the old Joss which weighs nearly 11 pounds. At this point, it would seem to be an excellent alternative to the more expensive Saito. It should also gain a little more power after another gallon runs through it.

As to breakage, I seem to recall from threads here that the Thunder Tiger .91 was the engine that had the valve train problem if you didn't take it apart and Lock-Tite everything back in place. If you do ever have anything break, send it back to Global Services. They are the best I have seen.
Old 12-22-2003, 07:12 PM
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mars
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Thank you for the very informative info on magnum 4strokes.
I will follow your lead on the engine break-in. At 9000+ ft I will need all the power I can get.

Keep em coming, every post is valued!
Old 12-22-2003, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I have built 3 Tiger 60's, all were deluxe kits with retracts. All were set up with the nose wheel set up, and O.S. 61FX's, two of the kits were built at once. Don't worry about the wanna be tail dragger syndrome, I thought that mine were tail heavy, but they were perfect. I also used the Dave Brown arrow shafts for the push rods, but that was my preference, and certainly not mandatory. CF is not necessary for the fuse, as it is lite ply. The first one was involved in a mid air. The wing was sheared but the fuse was in decent shape considering the impact.
Larry King at Goldberg told me that losing a rib on each side would really make this plane move out. The second 2 were already complete, or I would have given it a go. Flaps are not necessary, but since each aileron is on it's own servo, you could try to set it up with flaperons.

The retracts are a real nice touch for this airplane, and if you are not dead set on a 4 stroke, the O.S. 61 is a great match for this plane.

Good luck!
Old 12-22-2003, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I HAD AN OS 91 4S IN MINE AND MADE IT A TAIL DRAGGER. BEST MOVE I MADE. I JUST USED ALUMINUM GEAR IN FRONT OF THE WING. WORKED GREAT. MY 10 YR OLD CRASHED HIS TRAINER EARLY ON AND USED THIS PLANE TO LEARN AND SOLO, IT FLIES THAT GOOD. NOOOO FLAPS!!!!!! YOU CAN POINT IT AT THE RUNWAY AND IT LANDS ITSELF.
GOOD LUCK
Old 12-22-2003, 11:31 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I bought mine 90% done and converted it to a tail-dragger, I think it looks better that way (sorry Mike) and based on my experience on my not so smooth grass runway think it will hold up much better, if my ultraStick-60 is any barometer. I ended up (eventually) putting a fults nose gear on all my trikes, and if you have a rough field to fly from and plan on keeping the trike gear setup, you might want to consider that too.

Mine came with 2-56 rods on wooden dowels that I'm thinking of switching over to 4-40 rods and perhaps arrowshafts. I haven't had a chance to fly mine yet (finished last week, 10-15 mph winds not the best for a maiden flight), so Mike may be a better judge on this than me, but it seems the way the plans have you set up the exit points on the fuselage for the elevator and rudder, there is an awfully long open run of metal to "flex in the wind".

The fuselage is long enough to conceal an antenna, so I put my antenna completely inside the fuselage. I also mounted a Hobbico "volt-watch" on the main deck under the canopy, and of course my canopy is screwed in just in case my pilot decides to "take a walk around the cabin".

I've got an O.S. 61 FX that I just took off of my Ultra-Stick, and found that the plane balanced out without any additional weight on nose or tail with only minor battery shifting to get the C.G. in range.

I was hoping to have more pictures of it to share, but last time I took it to the field for a test flight it was just way to windy.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:42 PM
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cknaack
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I found a couple of pictures of the latest 2 Tiger 60's.

I built one for my best friend, and one for myself. Both have retracts, O.S. 61FX's and are from a kit.
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Old 12-23-2003, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I can suggest a couple of building mods for the tiger 60 that I did on mine. Beef up the firewall to fuse joint. With the trike gear this area takes a beating. The fuse is weak just behind the wing. I have had to add support do to several hard landings. Mine came out tail heavy powered with a OS 61 fx. I didnt want to add weight so the battery is under the fuel tank right behind the firewall. I also carved some wood out of the rudder support on the top of the fuse ( seems like useless addl weight ). I made the door for the fuel tank the full size of the forward top fuse so I can access the battery and remove the fuel tank. I also had to move the servos farther foward and integrated a Futaba servo tray rather than the one supplied.

You will love this plane. It is a better flier than the 4* series for novices.

I have had mine for about 8 months and probably 75 flights. After a while you will find that you want more aileron, rudder and elevator, but I am not sure what implications changing these will have.
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Old 12-23-2003, 06:12 PM
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mars
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Great looking finish wrongwaywanye. I likes it. I am considering the -1 rib idea. The more nimble the better i figure.
Lots of great info.

At my altitude I know I need more power and bigger props. I dont think a .61 would be enough, even a hot one.
.91-.100 4 stroke seems like a goal for now.

cknaack- How do you mean move out? Faster. Faster and more nimble.?
Old 12-23-2003, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I was told faster and more nimble. I'll try it on my next one, but I hope that day is far into the future. I really love this airplane. The yellow and red are a great contrast in the air, even for a color blind guy like me!
Old 12-25-2003, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Now that its Christmas Ive seen the inside of the box. This is one of the best packed kits I have ever seen. Everything is protect by paper. Well done.
Old 12-25-2003, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Is it the regular or the deluxe kit?
Old 12-26-2003, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I got the none Deluxe kit. None the less I'm stoked. The packaging was was a thing of beauty. I dont think the wheel location would allow for retracts on the tail dragger version do to the mounting in front of the LE.
This is my second goldberg kit. The frist is still on the building board. (a hand me down Electra).


The lazer and die cutting is superb. Even though they are still using die's they must be the sharpest around.
This kit looks like a easy build, but I will take my sweet time like always. I really enjoy the building. I am a while out on starting it but as I want to finish the Electra.

Heres the inside of the box as packed.
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Old 12-28-2003, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Your kit looks like one of the new ones. It appears that the sale of Goldberg was a good thing. Mt 2 kits were some of the last that Goldberg packed before they sold the business. The die custs were terrible, and some of the die cut sheets were missing. Good thing I had 2 kits, as I had to make some parts from the die cuts from the other kit. Even with all that hassle, they were fun kits to build and to fly. The addition of the laser cut parts is a great plus. I can't wait to build my next one!
Old 02-16-2004, 08:27 PM
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mars
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Just thought I'd throw in a update. Tail group is finished. Wing is almost done, I removed more then 1/2 the dihedral, and mounted the mains in the wing panels. I choose not to enlarge the tail group at this time. Pretty easy build. Wing feels very stiff.
I want to airfoil the tail group slightly, think that it might fly better if I did?
Old 02-17-2004, 01:17 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

Cure the trike dragging its tail in one EASY step... grab the main LG wire in a vice and a pair of vice grips. Bend (torque) the LG to angle the main struts back appx 7 deg. Put the wheels back on. The thing will no longer drag its tail.

This simply and effectively moves the mains back 1/2 inch. No cutting. No fuss.

The stock nosewheel setup and the prebent main gear leaves the plane sitting just a bit node-high. That leads to "wheelbarrow" takeoffs and landing. There's no realy easy fix... You can partly cure it with a smaller nowsewheel. My plan is to bend new main gear wires to raise the back end. (the supplied wire is softer than I like anyway... not really music wire.)

Ideally the AOA of the wing will be very close to 0 (maybe up to +2 deg... sometimes -1 deg) sitting on the runway. Wth the mains as close to the CG as on the Tiger... you can get away with a negative AOA sitting on the ground. preventing the plane from rotating for lift-off before adequate airspeed is aquired.

+ AOA sitting on the trike gear can have a plane lift early, or ride the nosewheel with the mains off the ground as you gain adequate airspeed (very hard on the rudder servo) If , when sitting still, the plane looks like the nose is up...its wrong.
Old 02-17-2004, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

ORIGINAL: mars

I want to airfoil the tail group slightly, think that it might fly better if I did?
It won't fly any better, but what I did was to taper the rudder and elevator (You then have to taper the tabs at the rear of the stab that flank the elevators to match them)

As I said, it won't make it fly better, but it sure looked nicer!
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I built the Tiger 60 a few months ago and it flies pretty good...had a 91FX with a pipe so vertical was not a problem. The plane is very strong as built from plans but if I had it all to do over there are 2 things I would fix...1 is the main gear landing block location needed to be 1/2 in rearward and 2 is the rudder needs to have the hinge line straightened up...hinge line is to far angled back which made the rudder very week. If the plane is an ARF or you have already built the kit then a quick and easy fix is described very well by FHHUBER. I liked the way the plane handled high speeds...it can be flown very fast straight and level and all of the parts stay on the plane where they belong...it is just a damn good Sunday P.M. fly till your tired and ready to go home plane. I ended up giving the plane less goodies to a friend who always seems to end up with more plane thatn he is comfortable with and needed something a bit more sedate to suite his flying skill and he just loves the Tiger and has more fun with it than any plane he has owned...It's nice to see him really enjoy flying it.
Old 02-17-2004, 07:33 PM
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mars
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Default RE: Tiger .60 . Building suggestions?

I have already solved the sagging tail. I made it a tail dragger. I was refering to the mains for a taildragger config. I moved the main gear blocks in front of the spar, and then sheeted them in. I can get to them if really needed, hope I dont ever have to. I plan on using a pull-pull spring set-up on the tail wheel. I just need to decide on a motor. Then I can start the fuse. I wish the fuse was a little less box'y. Maybe I should build a Chipmunk next, this Tiger was not really my choice but I'm making the best of it. I really enjoy the building and this kit is going together tooooo fast.
Old 02-26-2004, 12:40 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60

I crashed the Tiger (again) a few weeks ago. That thing just wont die. Lost it in the winter sun (low).

I've rebuilt it. Took the opportunity to cut off the engine cheeks, mount the engine at 90 degrees and add a fiberglass cowl. I also converted it to a tail dragger. That nose wheel is responsible for most of the damage the plane takes. That and the wing bolts and fuse around the wing bolts.

I've flown it. It seems to fly better and it actually handles better on the ground as a tail dragger. I bolted on a 1 inch sullivan tail wheel.

I'll post some pics later.

I ordered a foam wing for it from dynamic balsa just to give that a try.
Old 02-26-2004, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Tiger .60

ORIGINAL: wrongwaywayne

mount the engine at 90 degrees and add a fiberglass cowl. I also converted it to a tail dragger. That nose wheel is responsible for most of the damage the plane takes
Wayne, Can you post a pic of the cowl and front end? Exactly where did you get the cowl? Also how much right/down thrust is needed with the tigers both vertical and horizontal orientation?
Thanks WWW! Sorry to hear bout the crash. Every picture I've seen of the Tiger as a trike looks like its doing a wheelie. I think it looks more civilian as a taildragger.
Old 02-27-2004, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Tiger .60

Check the Carl Goldberg site - they have all the info on the set up for the Tiger. I think the thrust is right 2 degrees with no down.

Here is a pic of the cowl - not quite finished adding stripes yet. I agree the tail dragger is way better. I mounted the landing gear on the fuse and it works great. The problem with that nose gear is that it can and will rip out your whole engine mount when you have an incident with the ground. It's also way easier to store and take to the field. The nose gear never stayed lined up right for very long. I fly off a grass field which does stress landing gear!
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