electricfan

My Feedback: (1)

ive been building arfs for a couple years and i want to try a kit. my questions are: how long will a typical 40-60 size aerobat take to build and cover for a first kit? i heard kits are more reliable and stronger than arfs because you build them. is this true? what supplies do i need other than a covering iron and some modeling pins? who makes the best kits that are the easiest to build(laser cut, perfect fit type kits)? what does an arf include that a kit does not (other than covering)?
thanks

CafeenMan

That's a heck of a lot of questions - none of which have concrete answers. I think building kits is EASIER than assembling an ARF because when I build I can make sure the parts fit. Plus, I do things like build the firewall before it's glued in so it's a lot easier than trying to put blind nuts in the right place than it is when you build an ARF and the pre-installed nuts don't match the included motor mount.

Anyway, a lot depends on your patience, discipline and ability to follow instructions. It also makes a difference how compulsive you are about parts fit. You should always dry-fit everything possible before gluing to save a ton of headaches.

Take a look at my website and click the Information for Modelers link. You'll find a lot of info about tools and building techniques there.

BTW - kits are a lot easier to build now than when I started and I managed to get them built even when I had no knowledge or skills. Jump in with a reasonably simple kit and you should be successful.

Mudsurfer1234

well i have never done an arf, or a RTF, just started in a kit, and after 2 days i was about 40% done, but my uncle is working on one that he started 2 years ago

but to me, flying sounds harder than building

A&P Mechanic

E-fan,
One does not build an ARF, it is assembled.
The most amazing things happen when you build a kit: You learn why certain materials are used in different areas of the airframe, you can discover what a real glue joint is; you may be able to understand why people that build kits are proud of their accomplishment and truly enjoy the hobby.
An ARF merely allows a person to go flying.
Now, a good .40 size kit may consume a week, a month, or more of your time to build. Then you will have to design and apply a covering material and trim scheme. That's the fun part! You have the latest cool plane, like someone else at the field, but it looks different and somewhat original! You can even put your own hot-shot pilot in the cockpit!
You can even make mistakes building a kit, then discover that you MUST fix it before you continue; not just shove it in a box and pass it off on the next person down the line!
Did that last ARF you flew have factory mistakes, or a barely comprehensible assembly manual? Do you think they cared?
So you've put together some ARFs: Can you fly a low wing, mildly aerobatic airplane? If so, try a Great Planes kit, Or a SIG King Kobra for starters. You'll really see what an airplane is all about. Good luck! Gus

1rcflier

I would check out Cafeenman's web-site....tons of info

michpittsman

My Feedback: (11)

You get beginner's instructions when you buy a trainer kit-lots of building tips. A more advanced kit will assume that you already know all the little building tricks that would normally pick up in three or four kit builds. I see many trips to the LHS for this tool or that widget in your future! Enjoy it. If you're feeling really masochistic scratchbuild from plans and a pile of wood...JIM

swooper

If you can work on it for 2hrs per day you could finish one in a month. But for me it's better to not have a "schedule" or deadline, I'm building for enjoyment, not to get done. If other interests take over, sometimes it's many months. I like to start a project with a goal like "get it done before spring".


Some arfs are built well, some kits aren't. At least you'll know how well your kit is built. While your first kit should end up flyable, it may look a little imperfect, and that's OK. Each kit you build will turn out better than the last. Mastery comes with practice.


A knife or two, different sizes, shapes, and grits of sanding blocks, weights of different kinds like sandbags, magazines, etc. Any good kit will include lists of tools and materials needed.


GreatPlanes makes some good ones and their instructions are top-notch. Tower kits seem to be made by GP and are of similar (high) quality. Sig kits vary in ease of construction, but very good woood and fly very well. With a lot of manufacturers, the older kits are harder to build with scantier instructions while their more recent releases are much better.

Most arfs include engine mount, wheels, fuel tank, spinner which kits generally do not. Some have engine mounts, tho.
I'd recommend an easy kit for a first attempt rather than a scale aerobat like an Extra. Something with a simple box fuselage like a Stik or Uproar. Not that you couldn't finish an Extra, but after learning some skills and techniques on a simple kit it will turn out much nicer as a second or third plane. Whatever, I hope you'll give it a go, have some fun building, turn out a good flyer, and start into the discovery and satisfaction of building!

dcw1969

I just got my first kit for X-Mas, a Venture60, and I already have the wing, stab, and fin done. I'm working on the fuselage right now and I love it. The most important thing you need is a good building board. The best thing about building, for me, is knowing that I will be flying something I actually built from a "box of sticks".

I built mine based on the great suggestions from other guys at RCU. You can find alot of info here in the forums....pay attention to it, these guys really know their stuff!!

I would have to say that Cafeenman's site really helped me ALOT. He's got info on just about everything you need to know about building, from what you need for equipment (both necessary and "the nice to have stuff") to tips and techniques, and everything in between. THANKS CafeenMan!!!!

Darren

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Something you could always do is pick up a Sig Wonder. They only cost about 30 bucks, they are easy to build (and will teach you many building techniques that you will use later), and they are a blast to fly.

firefox144

Get building,

I started with a Sig Kadet LT40. Great kit and lazer cut, good instructions. A few hours a night and finished in a month. I also built a 4*40. same thing a month.
I also built a great planes super skybolt. Took a year to build, good instructions but still a very time consuming kit to build. Patience-Patience. Came out great though.

Heres the kicker, the Skybolt is hanging from my office ceiling because it took so long to build and came out so good, the pucker factor is keeping me from putting it in the air.

I could care less about the ARFs and the quick build kits. Its only fun if you like to build and have the patience to do it.

strnglvr

My Feedback: (1)

Hello, To Me that sounds like questions you'll just have to answer for yourself, since your kinda just getting started in this aera of the sport, i would say go pick out the kit, and talk to your LHS as to what you'll need to get started, take it home set a goal for your self as to when you would like to have it finished, an start on it, for me frameing and sheeting goes pretty quick and then kinda slows down as you want to think thing through as you want to set-up pushrod and servo set-up and things like that, so you don't get ahead of your self, after you do your first build you'll be able to answer your own questions,.....so i would say pick a well cut kit with good instructions,..........and have at it.....alot lot of the kit's out today you could train a monkey in a week to build,......so we human's have a pretty good chance to have a nice looking/flying model when done,.......good luck and enjoy,.................Paul

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

The sig Somethin Extra would be a great kit to start on. Good instructions, great wood, easy to build and a blast to fly. It would teach you a lot about building. Don't be afraid of building. It is fun. Don't start on a huge hard kit to build and you will be fine. Great planes, goldberg and sig are some of the better kits to build. There are others. Stay away from things like the pika and Royal war birds. They are great, but not easy. You need to build a few first.


Have fun!

cde0214

I just started the gp RV-4, so far it has been a very fun kit to build. I have to agree with the ones who say sig and gp make good kits. I am new at this but I have built two sigs and now this gp with no complaints. There is something rewarding about going to the field with a new plane you built and not assembled. As far as tools go, my wife thinks it takes a whole room full just to build an airplane!!!

CafeenMan

You only get one room for tools? I'm so sorry to hear that. Maybe we can start a charity thread to help you out.

electricfan

My Feedback: (1)

wow thanks for the support. i like the somethin extra and many of the GP kits. im flying a low wing plane that looks like a mix between a regular low wing and a pattern plane. the wing is thin for speed. whats the best kit to build from where I am, preferrably from sig or GP? another question: do i need both an iron and a heat gun?
thanks

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Yes, both the iron and the heat gun help.

Pick the plane you like. There are a lot of good ones. If the SE interests you, build that. You won't be wrong. If not, build the one you like. It is more fun if you are interested in it rather than the rest of us be interested in it.

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

I would say that for a first kit give the Sig 4 Stars a try. They are lazer cut and simple in their construction, fly great too. You don't need a shop full of tools either but there are a few that can make the process of building much quicker and more enjoyable.

Some of my "must" have's:

X-Acto knife and number 11 blades(buy them in the box of 100, don't worry you'll use them).
Fine toothed Zona saw.
X-acto miter box, the little aluminum one.
Great planes bar sanders, a short and a long one, and the 150 grit stick on paper for them.
A covering iron with a sock.
A heat gun.
A 3/8" cordless drill and a set of bits.
A 6" or 12" steel ruler.
Modelers T-pins, large and small one's.
Various adhesives like CA, epoxy and yellow wood glue.
Scissors.
Sharpie fine point markers.
Wax paper for covering plans.
A FLAT building board to construct the plane on.

The items in this list are really all you need to build with, not ALL are completely necessary but they aren't very expensive and make the job easier and quicker. Many of the items I listed are also used in the assembly of ARF's as well so you probably have some of them already.

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

WHOA!! man your gettin lots of great advice! the first kit you ever build will be better built than any arf you could buy.
stick with well known manufactures and look for lazar cut ( these fit so well it really is like cheating!) i have built the sig LT 40 and the 4 star 60. must say the 4 star is my #1 favorite plane to fly and the instructions are SWEET on both. good luck and i seriously think you'll find build a ton of fun! remember a good builder is a good repairer!

Patriot

Yes, Yes, I geuss I am a real mosachist. I started building models as a small child. I built plastic model airplanes and Estes model rockets for years. Then, as a teenager, I built my first airplane. No, not and old Control line, or an RC trainer. But, I wanted to really build something, so I built a Sig Smith Miniplane.

The little Smith was the first plane I ever built. It took me 6 months, and man was it a major project for a 14yo kid, but did I ever learn just about everything it takes to build a plane in just one kit. I do not recommend doing this for any beginner, after showing up at the field, I had to go home and build a trainer. But, the trainer only took me two weeks. Big differance.

I loved that little plane. Dad sold it years ago when I moved out. Which is why I am getting ready to build a new one, only bigger, and built from scratch. Will post pics when I begin.

That's another nice thing about building, you can post your progress here in RCU, and get alot of good feedback from guys who have already done it. Plus, it gives you a chance to "show off" your new skill. Nothing wrong with a little pride in ones work.

As for tools. I guess you could make a list a mile long. Usually a set of hobby knives, glue, epoxy, sanding blocks with lots of paper, and a good "FLAT" surface for building. From there, the shopping for tools and supplies really takes off. You can never have too many tools.

Good luck, and God speed.

Patriot

phread59

You have got real good advice here. I say that of all the tools you get you need a flat area that you can push pins into. It is absolutely essential to have a good flat building board. a Fellow poster above gave a list of tools you will need. If you are not sure on a board try this. Buy a sheet of 3/4 mdf at a local lumber place. About 1 pound of 1 1/4" deck screws. Some homasote or the grey backed cieling tiles. And finally a set of folding table legs or saw horses. I got my legs at a local Cole's hardware. Rip the mdf in half long ways. Then put the 2 halves on top of each other. Then screw the mdf together from both sides. Install the legs or set on the horses. Glue the homasote or screw it on. You have a stable warp free board.

The final suggestions. As suggested SIG, Great Planes or Goldberg kits are all well engineered and have great instructions. I suggest SIG personally. And lastly PATIENCE! Don't hurry, just take your time and you will surprize yourself. The plane you build will be a source of pride for you. The feeling of seeing your creation take to the sky the first time has to be felt to understand. Best of luck to you in your endevor.

Mark Shuman

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

LOL.... In my experience.. Building the airframe (doing the woodwork) is easy. Doing a beautiful covering job like on the better ARFs is near impossible.

I agree though - building yourself gives a sense of pride and "ownership". An ARF to me is just another household appliance. I've kept all the planes I built. I've sold/traded/given away many of my ARFs.

spokman

My Feedback: (2)

If you need advice on building a table check some old posts. I used a hollow core dore with a syn laminate covering and put sheet rock on it. Very pleased with it so far and very cheap. Feel free to post questions on building a table. You'll get a lot of answers!

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

Covering is not the daunting task that many think it is. It is like anything else and requires a gameplan and some preplanning. If you want to get good results on your first try do the following:

Build all of the major sub assemblies, fuse/wing/horzontal and vertical stabs/control surfaces, and sand them smooth, then clean off the dust with a damp cloth. DO NOT attatch these parts together before covering them.

Cover each surface seperately, think like it's a ARF and your getting all of the peices ready to put in the box for shipping. Covering all of these items seperately makes the process MUCH easier and makes applying a scheme simpler.

Cut your hinge slots after covering and then attatch the control surfaces, some designs require you wait till the tail is together(ex. joining wire between the elevator halves that goes through the fuse).

Remove the covering from the area's to be glued and assemble the plane just like an ARF.

The secret to applying covering is to stretch it, not shrink it. It takes time and practice but it's not as hard as it sounds. Trim is actually pretty easy if you have a method for doing it. I use plastic garage sale signs as patterns, draw out the design, score with a hobby knife and fold till it snaps. Windex and trim solvent are used to position and adhere the trim. All of this is fast and easier than it sounds and gets great results.

Finally ask LOTS of questions here on RCU and on other sites and talk to the other modellers in your club, you'll get there and probably a lot sooner than you think.

Patriot

For a building table, I went a little more expensive so I could build up to a 10 ft wing all at once. I got a heavy gauge steel angle iron shelving unit that can be built side by side to make it 2'x8' long and 36" high. I then screwed a piece of 10ft long formica counter top to it with built in backsplash to attach a nice set of shelves to. The steel bench is nice and sturdy, and after setting it up, it is very "FLAT".
The edges of the top hang over each side of the bench by 12" to allow for clamping and cutting areas. I use my wifes old food cutting board for a balsa cutting sirface, and use two 2x4ft ceiling tiles end to end on top for pins.

As for arfs, or should I say BARFs? I have never really liked them, mainly for safety reasons. But that's for me, not everyone else. I just don't trust some poor starving slave in Asia to build my planes.

But I will concede this, they have in many ways helped to save this hobby and have really allowed other areas of it to grow. Just look at how many engines, radios, and hardware parts are now available. AMAZING!!!

I really like how this gentleman has decided to go deeper into the hobby by taking the time to try and build something, rather than assemble it and rush to the field. I think arfs are generally ok, especially for beginners, and people who just don't have time to build.

However, it is important for us builders to cheer them on into going farther into the hobby by exploring the real craftsmanship and engineering aspect of it, rather than slam on them for having arfs. If anything it will drive them further away from us and not further into exploring what this hobby can truly offer. The idea is to bring them in, not scare them away, thus creating two classes within the hobby. One being the younger smart alecky generation who wants instant gratification by getting an arf and going to the field in a day, and the other being a select few who have become so grumpy that we won't be willing to lend our time to try and teach something.

Believe it or not, I am only 33yo, but since I have been building models since I was a small child, I have tons of experience with it. And to this day, I still like to ask everyone else on here questions about what they do here, or what materials to use there. Even the most experienced builders and fliers learn something new just by confering with the rest of us. It is a constant learning process.

Now once this new builders kit is just about done, the last major thing to do is cover it. I suggest using a plastic film for your first plane or two. I started that way too, even though I played with silk as a kid. After my first three planes with plastic film, I have decided to go back to the old dope and fabric covering. Specifically, I use Koverall because it allows me to get what ever kind of finish I choose. That's about it. My fingers are getting tired of typing.

Patriot

Time Pilot

I'm a fairly new builder and am think it's a great hobby. I wish I had started earlier.

One thing I'd like to add to the list of great advice so far is that when assembling your kit, try to keep in mind how the whole thing will go together so you can make sure the whole thing ends up put together the way it should be.

First example: I build a little biplane, followed the plans and had one heck of a time getting the top wing on properly. Lucky for me it wasn't intended to fly or I'd be rebuilding parts of it. Had I had the experience or forthought, I would have added a few pieces to the uncovered airframe that would have greatly simplified getting that top wing on later.

Second example, after following the plans for a Great Planes BLT (electric flier), I not only ended up with less dihedral than I needed, but getting the wing halves together properly was more frustrating than I think it could have been had I built the wings differently.

I'm a bit of perfectionist, mind you, and don't have the experience yet to know when parts that don't quite fit are 'close enough' that it doesn't matter.