How Much Flaperon Movement?
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How Much Flaperon Movement?
Hello all, I have finished my Sig Somethin' Extra and am now setting up the control throws. The amount of flaperon down travel is not listed. Does anyone know a good general rule of thumb of degrees? Or someone who has had this plane, what worked for you? Thanks, Andrew
Edited for capitalization.
Edited for capitalization.
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
Rule of thumb is 1/3 of elevator travel. Works good for me. That will put you in the ballpark. You'll find you can do the same size loop with less throw. Try it high first as in can snap out with to much throw.
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
You mean 1/3 the degrees? (If the ele. moves 1 in. down, the flaperons move 1/3 in. down?).
Well, I'm not really planning on using them to do tighter maneuvers, I'm planning on slower landings. But, of course, that may change real quickly.
Another thing, is it usual to have the flaperon knob on the left hand side of the transmitter? On Realflight it's on the right. Thanks, Andrew
Well, I'm not really planning on using them to do tighter maneuvers, I'm planning on slower landings. But, of course, that may change real quickly.
Another thing, is it usual to have the flaperon knob on the left hand side of the transmitter? On Realflight it's on the right. Thanks, Andrew
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
Andrew:
What radio are you using, then I can tell you better? Normally when the flaps go down the plane will pitch down and you need up elevator. But that depends on the planes characteristics
What radio are you using, then I can tell you better? Normally when the flaps go down the plane will pitch down and you need up elevator. But that depends on the planes characteristics
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
I am using a Hitec Eclipse 7. The amount of flaperon throw they give me just seems to not be enough, but by what you are telling me it is enough. Are you familiar with this radio? It lets me program a percentage of movement from 0- +/-100, but no more. Programming is fairly easy. Thanks, Andrew
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
My experience is to start out with as much AILERON as you want. Then make the flap movement no more than half of that. Adjust after test flights. If you use all the movement with your flaps, then your ailerons will not be effective any more. I learned this the hard way with My Stik 30
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
OK then, the amount I am allowed will be plenty. If anything, I'll probably even being using less than +/-100. Thanks guys, Andrew
#8
RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
Flypaper 2,
Not to be rude, but my experience in full-scale planes(I'm a private pilot) shows that engaging flaps will increase lift and drag. This will cause the nose rise (assuming the same throttle position) - not fall. Other RC pilots that I've talked to agree that this is the case (as I observed others stating that the nose falls during flap deployment and I as these people why this would be the case) . . . My JR 378 Heli is my first computer radio, and they have a means to mix in elevator trim (down) with the deployment of flaps/flaperons . . . I'm sure that most, if not all other recent computer radios have this ability. The only scenario that I can think of that would cause the nose to fall would be if the power was reduced during flap deployment . . . I'm also assuming a standard wing/stab setup . . not canard, delta or whatever . . . I'm not familiar with their flight characterstics.
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
Not to be rude, but my experience in full-scale planes(I'm a private pilot) shows that engaging flaps will increase lift and drag. This will cause the nose rise (assuming the same throttle position) - not fall. Other RC pilots that I've talked to agree that this is the case (as I observed others stating that the nose falls during flap deployment and I as these people why this would be the case) . . . My JR 378 Heli is my first computer radio, and they have a means to mix in elevator trim (down) with the deployment of flaps/flaperons . . . I'm sure that most, if not all other recent computer radios have this ability. The only scenario that I can think of that would cause the nose to fall would be if the power was reduced during flap deployment . . . I'm also assuming a standard wing/stab setup . . not canard, delta or whatever . . . I'm not familiar with their flight characterstics.
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
Your right up to a point, Mark. It's influenced by airspeed more than anything. If you drop the flaps at to high an airspeed, it will balloon up. As the speed drops there is a point where it would fly level with no elevator input. As it drops lower, it would tend to pitch down, needing up elevator to fly level. Thats why it's almost impossible to use elevator trim with flaps. To pitch sensitive with speed. Better for the young lads to learn to fly with the sticks instead of the trimmers.
#10
RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
I flew one of the pre-AD'd Cessna 172's without the 40 degree flap block (you can look at the flap selection lever - electric - in a C172 and most of them are prevented from deploying flaps beyond 30 degrees with a 'blocker' in the position indicator) and the effect was monstorous. Apparently people were deploying a full 40 degrees in high wind necessitating a crab or (god forbid) a forward slip. This 'hid' the horizontal stabilizer and decreased elevator authority. I'm assuming that's what might be happening in some R/C aircraft with 'full' flap deployment . . . .
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
I have the Futaba 6EXA radio and am also setting up the flaperons, but when I turn the flap knob either way, the ailerons go up, instead of down. But the problem is that I am using two seperate channels (1 for right aileron, and 6 for the left) so I can't reverse the channel 6 that would be used for the flaps because the left aileron will reverse........I hope somone can help me.....THANKS......
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
I'm not sure if your radio works like mine, but you go into the programming screen for flaperons. Set it to adjust:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 1 (right aileron)
Reverse that channel. Doing so will make the right aileron now go down when you rotate the flap knob. Do the same process again, only this time, use this:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 6 (left aileron)
Now, both ailerons should go down when the flap knob is rotated. This is how it is done on my radio, hopefully it is simialr to yours.
-Andrew
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 1 (right aileron)
Reverse that channel. Doing so will make the right aileron now go down when you rotate the flap knob. Do the same process again, only this time, use this:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 6 (left aileron)
Now, both ailerons should go down when the flap knob is rotated. This is how it is done on my radio, hopefully it is simialr to yours.
-Andrew
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
ORIGINAL: markfsanderson
Flypaper 2,
Not to be rude, but my experience in full-scale planes(I'm a private pilot) shows that engaging flaps will increase lift and drag. This will cause the nose rise (assuming the same throttle position) - not fall.
.................................
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
Flypaper 2,
Not to be rude, but my experience in full-scale planes(I'm a private pilot) shows that engaging flaps will increase lift and drag. This will cause the nose rise (assuming the same throttle position) - not fall.
.................................
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
Whether the nose rises or falls depends on the aeroplane. My SE will dive when I put in down flapperon, and climb when the ailerons are raised (spoilerons or airbrakes). Another model I have (a pattern plane with a very long tail) will climb strongly when the flaps are lowered.
My SE needs about 10% flap to elevator mix, with the elevator going in the same direction as the flapperons to maintain trim. The pattern plane needs something like 40% down elevator to fly level with the flaps down 40°.
I guess it depends whether the wing moment due to the increased lift (forcing the nose down) is greater than the moment between the wing and tail caused by the inceased incidence due to the deployment of the flaps. The wing moment I refer to is the tendency of all lifting surfaces to pitch downward when at a positive angle of attack. The more lift, the more pitching moment, whether the lift increased due to angle of attack or airspeed. Flaps increase the angle of attack since the chord line angles down towards the rear as the flaps deploy.
The SE has a low aspect ratio, so the trailing edge of the wing is relatively a long way behind the CG, and at a large fraction of the distance from the CG to the tail. The pattern plane, with the long tail, and a higher aspect ratio, has the flaps much closer to the CG relative to the tail. Intuitively, you could say the SE flapperons are far enough back to act more like elevons. I suspect you could remove the horizontal tail, reflex the ailerons and the SE would still fly quite nicely.
For those who want to try flapperons on the SE: I find that spoilerons work better for landing. The problem landing the SE is that flies so slowly that it will float from one end of the runway to the other. Raising the ailerons about 10° increases drag, reduces lift and just about kills the floating effect. Landing speed is slightly higher, but it's so slow anyway that landing speed is not an issue.
Spoileron also reduce tip-stalling effects, not that this is really a problem with the SE. Flapperons will decrease washout, so it will be more prone to tip stalling: using aileron in response to a dropping wing will lower the aileron on the wing that is stalling, increasing its effective angle of attack and possibly inducing an even deeper stall.
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
ORIGINAL: iflynething
I have the Futaba 6EXA radio and am also setting up the flaperons, but when I turn the flap knob either way, the ailerons go up, instead of down. But the problem is that I am using two seperate channels (1 for right aileron, and 6 for the left) so I can't reverse the channel 6 that would be used for the flaps because the left aileron will reverse........I hope somone can help me.....THANKS......
I have the Futaba 6EXA radio and am also setting up the flaperons, but when I turn the flap knob either way, the ailerons go up, instead of down. But the problem is that I am using two seperate channels (1 for right aileron, and 6 for the left) so I can't reverse the channel 6 that would be used for the flaps because the left aileron will reverse........I hope somone can help me.....THANKS......
Did you try reversing the flaps? The radio may be smart enough to know what you want since you have the flapperon mix enabled.
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
ORIGINAL: SeenMCrash
I'm not sure if your radio works like mine, but you go into the programming screen for flaperons. Set it to adjust:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 1 (right aileron)
Reverse that channel. Doing so will make the right aileron now go down when you rotate the flap knob. Do the same process again, only this time, use this:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 6 (left aileron)
Now, both ailerons should go down when the flap knob is rotated. This is how it is done on my radio, hopefully it is simialr to yours.
-Andrew
I'm not sure if your radio works like mine, but you go into the programming screen for flaperons. Set it to adjust:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 1 (right aileron)
Reverse that channel. Doing so will make the right aileron now go down when you rotate the flap knob. Do the same process again, only this time, use this:
Master: CH. 6 (flaperons)
Slave: CH. 6 (left aileron)
Now, both ailerons should go down when the flap knob is rotated. This is how it is done on my radio, hopefully it is simialr to yours.
-Andrew
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
Well, I'm sorry I couldn't help you. But, you do have control of master and slave, so if you read your manual very closely, maybe you can figure it out yourself. Another thing to try....
I said to reverse the slave channel. If yours is set up as something like, +100%, then you should change it to -100%. This will do the same thing as reversing a channel. Remember, the master should always be channel 6, because that is flaperons. If the master channel was channel 1, then you would be adjusting ailerons. And if you are adjusting ailerons, if you want to change the right aileron, then the slave would be channel 1 (right aileron). If you wanted to edit the left aileron, the slave channel would be channel 6 (left aileron).
So, good luck. I see what you mean about it being difficult to understand; I hope all you can read this. -Andrew
I said to reverse the slave channel. If yours is set up as something like, +100%, then you should change it to -100%. This will do the same thing as reversing a channel. Remember, the master should always be channel 6, because that is flaperons. If the master channel was channel 1, then you would be adjusting ailerons. And if you are adjusting ailerons, if you want to change the right aileron, then the slave would be channel 1 (right aileron). If you wanted to edit the left aileron, the slave channel would be channel 6 (left aileron).
So, good luck. I see what you mean about it being difficult to understand; I hope all you can read this. -Andrew
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RE: How Much Flaperon Movement?
I just noticed..... you said:
You don't want to reverse the master channel. You want to reverse each slave channel individually, MAKING SURE THE MASTER IS CHANNEL 6, ALWAYS. Remember, the while the master is on channel 6, you are editing the flaperons. But, you won't see any effect unless you edit the slave channel.
Again, hope this helps. -Andrew
I put channel 6 and the master, and then channel 1 as the slave. Then, I REVERSED CHANNEL 6, and then went back to the P. Mix and changed the Master and Slave to Channel 6.....I rotated the flap knob and the ailerons still were going the wrong direction, UP
Again, hope this helps. -Andrew
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RE: How Much <span class=
I think that my problem is I am under the "P. Mix" I think that I should be under the "W. Mix" in the computer because that is where I set up for the plane to have flapersons.....maybe someone that has the same radio that I have and they could help........well, i'll try what you said one more time......I just read about the P. Mix and it said "press the select........use the data input lever to set the percentage of mixing from -100% to +100%.......ok......THANKS.......
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RE: How Much <span class=
Hi there .... The answer to your predicament is a lot simpler than you think....
Set the 6exa to have flapperon mixing (channels 1 and 6 as per normal). Get it working exactly like you had it when the ailerons would go up instead of down like you want. Then, "engage" the flaps, so that the ailerons are as high up as they go (in the wrong direction). Then, unscrew the servo-horns from the servo, and rotate them so that the ailerons are back to neutral. Now, when you turn the flapperon knob, the flaps go down ......
Basically, with the flaperon knob on the 6EXA it is non-directional. YOu turn it in whatever direction makes sense for your plane.
gus
Set the 6exa to have flapperon mixing (channels 1 and 6 as per normal). Get it working exactly like you had it when the ailerons would go up instead of down like you want. Then, "engage" the flaps, so that the ailerons are as high up as they go (in the wrong direction). Then, unscrew the servo-horns from the servo, and rotate them so that the ailerons are back to neutral. Now, when you turn the flapperon knob, the flaps go down ......
Basically, with the flaperon knob on the 6EXA it is non-directional. YOu turn it in whatever direction makes sense for your plane.
gus
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RE: How Much <span class=
Well, I took the plane to the LHS......and they took care of it....I don't remember how they did it but.......we got the flaps to go down about 10 degrees.....Thanks for all the information that I have got though.......I really appreciate everything that I have found out.....maybe I can help someine else that might have my problem........THANKS ALOT THOUGH.......