voyager_663rd

Make sure you DON'T just use an elastic to hold the wings on. I don't see a manufacters site for kits so I'm putting this here.

I had read about possible problems with this setup (a J-hook screwed to each each rib passing through the side of the fuse and held tight (ha, that's a joke) by an elastic. I considered zip ties but to get it tight enough would probably pull out the J-hooks at some point. Plus they have to be cut every time disassembly/transport is required.

I had about 30 flights with changing the elastic about every 6-7 flights. Today was it's last flight. On high rates elev and ron's, just finished a snap roll and was doing some tight rolls. Suddenly it stopped and fluttered. And it just spun in.

In the aftermath, this is what's left. You can see in the pic of the wing what happens when the elastic can't hold the wing tight in hi-g rolls. The wing pulls away from the fuse, the wing then separates from the rear dowel (s- - t, it only extends a 1/2" from the side of the fuse per plans) (You can see how it slid up the side of the rib) and you have one big rotating aileron for a wing.

Spun in.

I hesitate to say this is a crappy design not being an experienced (ie: many years building) builder, but damn, this is a crappy design.

Don't believe everything you read (I'm referring to the tag line in the manual--"This plane can do manouvers they don't even have names for yet". Yeah, I got some names for them. Just ask.

Got two good wings left out of the deal. Think I"ll get a hunk o' drain pipe and build a SPAD. Anyone else have this happen?

Just beware.

P.S. I didn't contact SIG about this. Don't want to get in a p-----g match about "Oh, it must be your fault. Didn't change the elastic often enough" etc etc. Seriously doubt they would do anything about replacing 3/4's of the plane (everything except the wings) because of a perceived design flaw. Maybe if a SIG exec reads this, he might wish to comment on my observations.

I didn't want to be too nasty in my comments. I'm just making a first-hand observation.

hookedonrc

I am truly sorry for our loss. I just finished mine up about 2 months ago and am having a blast flying it. I know what you are saying about the way the wings attach. Before I finished the kit, I did a search here on the site and found as many threads that I could about the plane. In one of them, the guy had missed the fact that he had the wings sitting on top of the rear dowel on one side. Didn't fly too long with it that way. I know this is in hind sight, but maybe it could help someone else. I left the wooden dowel for the rear of the wing sticking out further than the plans indicate, I have both a rubber band, and a zip tie holding them. I know it's a hassle, but I felt it was a small price to pay. In addition, I epoxied in the J hooks, because those threads just didn't look strong enough to hold. I may lose it eventually, but for now it is flying great and staying together.

Also, I have considered going back and replacing the J hooks, I just haven't decided what to do yet. On another thread one of the builders indicated that he replaced the screw in J hooks with one's that were threaded bolts. I would have done the same, but when I ran across this idea, I had already built the wings and would have to have cut them open to get the nut on the inside.

dant-RCU

My Feedback: (3)

I went to ACE Hardware and got some small springs and used them on the J-hooks. Worked like a charm. Also worked on a Lanier Edge 540.

Dan

maayan

When i bought the se, i was worried about the way the wings are held.
Though a friend told me i have nothing to worry about i decided to add something.
I took 2 bolts with blind nuts- that "sig" uses to hold the engine mount, the blind nuts are held on the wings.
On the fuse i glued 2 washers to prevent from cracking the balsa.

When i get to flying field, i bolt on the wings (takes 2-3 min') put 3 small rubber bands + turn the J hooks so they cant get out of there holes.
I also did not shorten the dowel supplied, will save 0.5 grams but it looks more secure.

The se is a real sweet plane. but, "sig" should upgrade the attachment of the wings.

Spicoli

I fly one all the time for the past 3years and have never had a problem with rubber bands.I usually use 2 and one of them is always new.I like the design.All the SE's out there I have not heard of them being a problem.Using one used rubberband may not be a good idea?

CHassan

My Feedback: (13)

I ran one band (#64) trippled over. New band every time, and never had a problem. I would do 1/2 throttle blenders, major snaps, and had enough ail throw to spin faster than I could count. Only problem I had was the rear locating dowel busted loose a few times.

cfossa

My Feedback: (5)

I have a round rubber gasket from an auto parts store that works like a champ. I never swap it out, and it is just the right size to hold the j-hooks. This was tip from another guy at our club, and it works perfectly.

Carl

blw

My Feedback: (3)

A lot of SE's at our field. I just rebuilt a crashed one that was not wanted anymore. A friend of mine who has never built a kit rebuilt his SE that looked as bad as yours. A friend at the club built it for him. It flies great now. I've seen the bolt method. I am going to cut a small strap out of an old inner tube lying around here and use that with the j hooks.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

If your building one from a kit, modify it for bolts.

If your flying the arf, try using wire ties...they seem to work well.

Irish R.Seer

My Feedback: (1)

I used J hooks with lock nuts on the ply ribs, which were strengthened with a piece of 1/8 ply epoxied to the back of the rib. Then I got a Dubro turnbuckle with two small rings, one on each end, hooked the rings over the J hooks and tightened up the turnbuckle. Never had a problem.
Bill.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

<<I considered zip ties...>>

Which work fine. And you don't have to tighten it to the point that you're pulling the hooks from their anchor points. Snug is adequate.

Yeah, you have to cut it each time you're finished flying. Same with a rubber band, eh?

voyager_663rd

Actually, no.

JWN

My Feedback: (42)

I too use zip ties and you do not have to pull them "tight". You only need to pull it till snug.

Zip ties are far less expensive than a new model and they are so easy to use.

John

voyager_663rd

I apologize for the use of the term "crappy design" in my first post. I should have used the term "in my opinion it is a poor design". It was written on the day the plane went in and obviously I should have waited till I had recovered from my disappointment and upon reflection, chosen my words more carefully.

voyager_663rd

I should also add that SIG has contacted me regarding this incident (my crash, not my post although reference was made to it in an email reply to me) and I offer the above freely and of my own will.

I have learned a valuable lesson from this: get your head on straight after adversity and you won't say things you'd like to get back. This goes for all things in life, not just this one.

What I said could (and should) have been phrased differently. And that is what I apologized for.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I guess this is a good time to mention my midair with another SE today. My wing tip hit my buddies leading edge, and then went across his wing and hit the fuselage side right where the turtle deck begins. We both landed fine without any problems. Both planes actually flew well. My wing tip ribs are smashed and 5" of the leading edge was gone. The top sheeting was gone. That leading edge piece was stuck in the side of his plane. His plane had a crushed leading edge, the top spar on the last rib bay snapped. Sheeting gone. Sheeting at the wing root cracked, broken, etc on top and bottom. The fuselage was cracked badly in many places. We both used rubber bands to hold the wings. It is incredible that they stayed attached and flew so well. There is a lot of damage, but all of it can be repaired without too much work. I now have more faith in the wing attachments.....

Panther45

My Feedback: (4)

I am flying SE number 5 and though I have not had any problems with the wings, I use the nylon bolt method. Just seems better

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Panther45,

Yes, it does seem better. Since I inherited this SE, I can't complain about the attaching method!!!


blwblw

(aka Vampire 47 a long time ago)


p.s. Friday wx looks to be in the 70's with wind at 5 or less =8*) (http://usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/c...t=Get+Forecast)

Panther45

My Feedback: (4)

Hey blwblw -- nice site for the weather, I put it in the favorites and will use it a lot. SE tends to fail if you hit the table with it, my wing has 3 rib bays damaged but it will fiy again.

Amazing how many different ways one person can hurt a plane

Flying Hog

Been using #64 rubberbands for 3 years now and I fly the snot out of it with no problem

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Ouch! 3 rib bays??? Was that both wings? You would probably refuse to be anywhere around my SE when it flies if you saw my patch jobs on the wings. I did a lot of 1/16th patching and a lot of thin CA in the cracks instead of cutting and replacing. A lot of damage to my SE was too critical regarding warps and washin/washout, so I chose to keep what was there and use CA for the original alignments of the wing. I don't know how the plane flew when new, but it is a great flyer now. If the covering was removed, it would look like a Frankenstein job...but it seems to be very sturdy.

That website has been very accurate with wind predictions. I like looking at the trends during the day. They sometimes botch the cloud cover predictions.

When do you think the SE will fly again? Sunday afternoon?

SnApRoLl-

Hello all ,how is everyone?
I have a Sig Something Extra that I built in 2001 and I have about 50+ flights on it.
(keeping my fingers crossed) I have never had a problem with the wing mounting.
I used to work for a hobby shop so I was able to get advise from many seasoned builders.
One of the customers advised me to use thin ca to saturate the inside of the wing tubes
and the fuse tube. It allowed the aluminum tube to fit more snug in the wings. same with the wooden dowel in the rear of the wings I saturated the dowel with thin ca and sanded it till it fit real snug. As for the J-hooks I installed a nut on the inside of the wing rib and screwed the j-hooks in and used epoxy to hold them. I use 2 #64 rubber bands to secure the wings to the fuse.
I think that it would have to be a very high speed very high G-rate to pull the wings off in flight.
and to be honest with you the S.E. was not meant to be flown really fast. The only problem I have is that it does not knife edge as good as Sig claims. it needs alot and I mean alot of rudder throw almost to point of touching the elavator. other than that I love the plane. It has a Thunder Tiger Pro .46 with a 10x6 prop,
Std. Hitec HS300 servos 8ch fm Hitec RX and a Futaba super 8ua TX.

"The second greatest thrill known to man is flying"
"The first greatest thrill known to man is landing"

bentgear

There is another way to look at it. If a nut or bolt gets a little loose it only gets worse. If a rubber band loosens a little the pressure is just as quickly reapplied. There is not as much force trying to pull the wings straight off the ends of the tube as many folks think. But, there can be lots of twisting and bending pressure depending on how the plane is flown.

Ed M.

Sport Flyer

My Feedback: (10)

I was using only one rubber band, tripled over. I got the better part of 2 years out of the first rubber band before it failed! Luckily the damage was minimal. [X(]

P47Tbolt

My Feedback: (20)

I secure my wings with a 3/32 diameter L shaped length of piano wire.
I epoxied 4 3/32 I.D. brass tubing to the inside of the fuselage.
2 on each inside of the fuselage. 1 above//1 below the hole where the hook on the
wing slides inside the fuselage.I slide the wing into place and the secure it with the 3/32 piano
wire slid straight down into the tubing through the hook.You can adjust how tight the wing is to
the fuselage screwing the j hook in or out.when you put the canopy hatch cover on it
prevents the piano wir from coming out.no problems with this setup.