DLDude

My Feedback: (1)

As fall approaches (Sorta), i'm starting to think about buying a kit to build to keep me busy on my off time. I've only built one other kit (4*40 which i sucked at). That kit was about 70$. I've been looking around Tower and i cant seem to find any generic, but decent kits available. The Somethin' Extra looks nice, but even that's pretty expencive for a kit. I also looked at the Uproar, which is dirt cheap. My hobby store carries maybe 5 kits total! ARFs have taken over the place. Can annyone suggest me a fairly simple building plane that could kill a month in the shop? Thanks

Fubar-One

My Feedback: (1)

All the kits have been scARF'd up by the new generation of instant gratification seekers. While I do admit to having an ARF or two, I have fallen in love with building kits. I find I have to haunt Ebay these days to find something that is not either a cap232extrasukoi or a trainer, unfortunately, and have been buying older kits that are no longer made. Build a "modern" kit then build one that is about 20 years old and you will find they are QUITE different animals build wise.
That being said, the Uproar is a great kit that goes together well and is a lot of fun to fly. It is not a 3D plane as such but a fun fly designed for flinging around the sky in slow motion.
You didnt say what part of the 4*40 build sucked. I havent built one of those but everyone raves about em. Check out Sigmfg.com for kits. They still make a few trainers that are industry standards plus have some off the wall kits if you might be interested on something like that.
Anyway, the kit to ARF ratio is dropping quite drastically, but there are still kits out there to be found!

DavidAgar

My Feedback: (108)

Take a look at Great Planes kits. They are all proven designs and come with an instruction manual, that if follwed step by step will not allow you to screw it up. They offer a large selection of designs and seem to be right in there on price. Hope this help's and good luck, Dave

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

Build the Great PLanes Skybolt, that should keep you busy most of the winter

JimTrainor

There are still plenty of kits still around.

My local web store lists 261 kits:
[link="http://www.greathobbies.com/scart/search.php3?Srch[cod]&Srch[cat]=AK&Srch[des]&Srch[lim]=500&Srch[DOSRCH]=Search"]Kits listed at Great Hobbies[/link]

... and a few more kit manufacture links I've collected:
http://www.skysharkrc.com
http://www.mosquitobiteplanes.com
http://www.apacheproducts.co.uk
http://www.skybench.com
http://www.dldesigns.net
http://www.ikonnwst.com
http://www.rtmodels.com
http://www.glhobbies.com
http://www.flairproducts.co.uk
http://www.morrishobbies.com

And, on top of all that, there are all the kit cutting companies out there.

DrFun

My Feedback: (4)

GP Extra 60 is a really nice kit, you won;t be dissapointed, I am finsihing one now and there is a thread in this forum GP Extra 60 totaly 3D. take a look at custumizations you can do.

It is just a nice kit.

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

Yup they are slowly disappearing from the shelves and that's why I have about 40 kits stashed away!!!!! Look also at the SIG Mid-Star 40 as it builds real nice and in my opinion flys the pants off the 4*40.

Roby

May I suggest that you consider building from plans or from a short kit.

Wing mfg , (are they still available ?) had some fairly nice stuff that flew quite well.


Regards
Roby

BOMBERGUY

My Feedback: (5)

If you want to try your hand at a scale kit, check out Jack Stafford Models. The Rearwind Speedster would be a good one.

John
www.JSModels.com

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

The SiG Spmething Extra is an excelent kit, and great plane. And it is priced about right.. It is right up your alley..

Look at what Great Planes and SIg have to ofer. They are some of eth best kits out tehre (sionce it'll be your second build) and are leraders in kit design.

Look at some other kits, such as BalsaUSA, Lanier, Pica, etc..

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

The SE is realitively cheap. It is one of the more fun planes to fly and builds great. If you don't particularly care what you build, hit the classifieds or auctions and find a kit there cheap and get it. There are a ton of them out there. You're going to have to spend some money to get a good one. The uproar is a fun plane too and cheaper than heck. I have a second one in the kit just in case. Nice bird in the air.

dicknadine

So there are no more kits available!! good time to to start buying balsa in bulk and building from a set of plans. takes a few more cutting tools and bandaids, add in a few more hours and YOU can now say- Look at what I've built, ain't it pretty. prety soon you will be asking how to draw up your own plans and do what we call scratch building. its a fantastic hobby, for young and old. been doing it since mid 1930's. dick

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I hate seeing kits disappear and ARFs mulitipling faster than rabbits.

Could you send a few auction/classified links, other than ebay and RCU?

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

<<..The Somethin' Extra looks nice, but even that's expensive for a kit...>>

Sorry, but if you think that's expensive, perhaps you should consider some other endeavor to occupy your time. You'll have to spend another thirty or forty dollars in covering and accessories (glue, tank, etc.) over and above the cost of a kit.

Not being critical; just practical.

Messerschmitt

My Feedback: (28)

The best kits I have ever built are from skysharkrc.com

the wood is excellent, and the laser cutting, man it's the only way to go as far as kits are concerned! Skyshark has a Fantasy that's great.

Connery

I've built a few kits and the 4*40 is one of them. I'm actually finishing up the covering now. I hate to say it but as simple as the 4* is to build, if you sucked at it, you might get someone to help you build the next one. That will give you more experience in building and still have a flyable plane when you are done. That way when you move up to bigger more complex kits you will be ready. I'm not trying to put you down or anything because I did something even worse. My first kit 20 years ago was a Top Flite P-51B. WAAAAY over my skill level at the time. IF I had actually been able to finish it, it problaby wouln't even have been able to be trimmed enough to fly.

MSabol

I suspect that there is something else going on as well, besides just a move towards 'instant gratification'.

Lets take an example:

Manufacturer A makes a kit, and it costs them $25 in materials to assemble the kit (buy the wood, die cut it, package it, whatever). They turn around and sell the kit to a hobby distributor for $50 in quantity. That's a 100% profit margin, and a net profit of $25 per kit sold.

Now look at the same kit assembled as an ARF. Take the $25 in materials, and add another $25 in materials for building (glue, covering materials, etc). Now pay some people in Korea or China the equivalent of $2.50 per hour to assemble it and cover it, and assume it takes 30 man hours to do this work. Now you have $125 dollars invested in the kit, and can sell it to a hobby distributor for $200. That's a 60% profit margin (less than in the first case), however now they are making $75 per kit, which is three times profit margin for the kit alone!

This kind of thing happens in all kinds of industries: anytime you can leverage cheap labor to produce a 'more' finished good, and can pass that along (and then some) to the people buying your product, you can enjoy higher profits.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

Only if people are buying! You could eliminate the cost of building and covering the ARF's if people wanted kits, instead, and still make good money. Sure the manufacturer's are outsourcing many, many products, but ARFs are being made because those are the things people are demanding and buying!

bax

DLDude

My Feedback: (1)

I know i sound cheap when i say the Sig SE is expencive, but when i could get a fairly decent ARF (Say, the Hangar 9 Twist) for the same price? All you're really paying for in a kit is the wood and extras. Personally, for a 40 sized kit, i dont see any reason it should be priced over $100. I know thats a bold statement, but would you agree? The planes arent that big, and i still have to buy wheels, pushrods, servos, covering, engine, not to mention all the building equipment. To build a SE would probably cost more than $150 to finish, which, yes, is less than the ARF, but for that i COULD have gotten a pretty snazzy ARF of another brand. I just think that if kit makers are trying to compete with ARFs, they need to give me a reason to build one opposed to the ARF.

Mike in DC

If you think the SE is pretty expensive for a kit, you are not likely to be happy with any kits. The truth is that in terms of dollars, a kit is likely to cost more than an ARF these days, and that's not including your labor. You're going to have to start thinking that kits cost you more because they give you more fun than an ARF.

You're going to have to forget the LHS and go mail order to get a good selection of kits.

If you're not good at building, I would recommend a profile kit, because they are relatively easy. I built the OMP Edge, and loved the kit.

wagas

Go to this thread. It may help you understand why ARF are cheaper that KITS. Kits are put together mainly in the US. Were as most ARF's are made overseas.
Anyway check out the this thread call "Why do they make great looking ARFs but no Kits for the same airplanes"

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19...tm.htm#1982912


If you go ARF or Kit it's your choice. If price is the factor then most people go with ARF's. I'm not a cost counter, it may be a little more but individuality is very important to me so I scratch build or build kits.

Good luck on your choice

check out www.ohiomodelproducts.com great kits and great flying machines...

Dano13

I honestly believe it comes down to a matter of personal preference and what you are willing to spend. I bought a World Models Super Frontier 40 ARF so I could get in the air quickly. It cost me $100, but included EVERYTHING except engine and radio equipment and actual building/assembly supplies such as glue, etc. Wheels, fuel tank, all that good stuff included.

Two days after receiving it, I'm thinking I want a J-3 cub, should be a nice second airplane, but this time, I want to build. So I spend the next few days (many, many hours) researching KITS. I settled on the Sig 1/5 kit. Cost me $139 plus shipping. I am working on it now. BUT, I still have had/need to buy the extras...fuel tank, wheels, minor hardware, etc. And still have to spend the time and cost of covering! This plane is going to end up costing me close to $400, if not more, when you factor in the cost of an additional flight pack plus one extra servo.

But, even though I am a relative newbie to the hobby, I am somewhat of a craftsman at heart. My third plane (when I get there) is also likely to be a kit.

The ARFs are taking over due to both cost effectiveness (kinda) and the ability to get into the air quickly. The hobby has changed dramatically over the last few years.

Since I have no sense, that is my 2 cents....

carrellh

I'm building the Uproar 60 as a second kit. I built a GP PT-60 first. There are quite a few kits that interest me. Tower Hobbies and Quantum Models have pretty big listings. Once you find something you like, if you don't want to mail order, ask your LHS to get it for you.

I got a Sig Astro Hog through the LHS for $95 when Tower, Quantum and several others were $104 to $115.

Kits, in general, seem to be more expensive than ARFs; but I have enjoyed the building I have done.

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

Kits vs. ARFs..

the debate3 still rages. There are a few threads on this subject, and it is a matter of opinion..

Kit builders are a dying breed.
ARFs are becomming cheaper than kits. (to finish, and have a flyign plane)
ARF quality is matching (and surpassing) some builders abilities
ARFs require a night, maybe two to get in the air..
ARFs require fefw tools and skill to assemble
A kit usually requires an additional cost, roughly equal to the original kit price, for teh required additional hardware..

But with all this, we still have to realise, that some of us in the hobby rather build than another other aspect of the hobby. Some argue that building is the hobby, and that flyign is jsut a way to 'show it off'.

There are kits out there, and there will always be a market for kits. But, the kits will be less 'sport flyers' and will cater mainly to the 'die hard' buildiers, and will usually be 'warbirds / scale' projects.

I am curuious to know:
Which came frist: The ARF or the need? Were ARFs introduced, to fill a niche? Or did ARFs become avalaible, and have since changed teh market? (because of quality, affordability, and availability?) [Did we, teh RC community, ask for ARFs, or did they get 'shoved down our throats' by marketeers?]

apalsson

My Feedback: (1)

There are still quite a lot of good kits around.
Even some kitters who seemed to have disappeared from the scene have re-surfaced. A good example is the MK line of kits. That whole line is now back on the market.
Another excellent kit maker is Apache Aviation who have revived some of the old Ohio line of Chipmunks.
Great Planes and their affiliates make a range of excellent kits.
Sig is still making their old line of kits and adding new ones.
Balsa USA are still producing their line and the list goes on.

Sure, kit prices have come up but so has the quality.
As we have become used to better and better looking ARFs, kitters have had to resort to their own "niche" in the market space, that is "if you build a kit, you get a better quality plane".

Personally, I enjoy building kits. As a matter of fact, I think I prefer the building over the flying. I still buy some ARFs to fly. Also - nothing compares with the thrill of the maiden flight of something you have built and spent 100s of hours on.

Just my 2c worth

Ari