Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
01-29-2012, 02:10 PM
#1376
Banned
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
ORIGINAL: WILDCRASHWILLY
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Zor,
Like I said before I agree with you on most of what you said including the free sliding LG wire which is what I'll do if I don't copy Box Car. It's been a long time since I've had highschool or college physics, but if memory serves me correctly, acceleration of gravity is 5.5 meters per second, per second, I did not calc it but, think that would be considerably faster than a 19 ft per second drop, if dropped straight down during a test. Your foam model from six feet would not have achieved velocity due to it,s extremely light wing loading. It would have acted somewhat like a parachute as the air contacted the wing from underneath. These heavier models 15 to 50 lbs for the most part are going to have a little different stresses on their structure and many times will have much higher wing loading. I agree, a Skybolt dropped from three feet will probably survive without structure damage given the LG will bend and absorb the impact. Your previous statement about dropping from five feet, I'm not so sure about. I have not measured the height of the decath standing on it's wheels but I would guess it stands 12 inches or a little better. I would never think of dropping it from five feet. That would be like taking a 737 which I'm guessing stands about 20 feet. Raise it five times it's height and drop it straight down from 100 feet. Although the plane would probably be salvageble, the damage would be severe to both the LG and probably the structure around it. Although like you, I normally approach at 10 to 30 degrees, sometimes five degrees, depending on what I'm flying scale or 3D, once I pass over the runway threshold I may only be at about three to five degrees. At time of landing, I flare and only drop about one to two degrees. All I can say is don't be late or miss the flare, although I have done that a time or two
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Zor,
Like I said before I agree with you on most of what you said including the free sliding LG wire which is what I'll do if I don't copy Box Car. It's been a long time since I've had highschool or college physics, but if memory serves me correctly, acceleration of gravity is 5.5 meters per second, per second, I did not calc it but, think that would be considerably faster than a 19 ft per second drop, if dropped straight down during a test. Your foam model from six feet would not have achieved velocity due to it,s extremely light wing loading. It would have acted somewhat like a parachute as the air contacted the wing from underneath. These heavier models 15 to 50 lbs for the most part are going to have a little different stresses on their structure and many times will have much higher wing loading. I agree, a Skybolt dropped from three feet will probably survive without structure damage given the LG will bend and absorb the impact. Your previous statement about dropping from five feet, I'm not so sure about. I have not measured the height of the decath standing on it's wheels but I would guess it stands 12 inches or a little better. I would never think of dropping it from five feet. That would be like taking a 737 which I'm guessing stands about 20 feet. Raise it five times it's height and drop it straight down from 100 feet. Although the plane would probably be salvageble, the damage would be severe to both the LG and probably the structure around it. Although like you, I normally approach at 10 to 30 degrees, sometimes five degrees, depending on what I'm flying scale or 3D, once I pass over the runway threshold I may only be at about three to five degrees. At time of landing, I flare and only drop about one to two degrees. All I can say is don't be late or miss the flare, although I have done that a time or two
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Gravity acceleration at sea level is 9.81 m/s^2
The foam model certainly has less velocity at impact from a 6 feet drop than it would have in vacuum.
I figured you would figure that out and you did.
I do not consider it is a matterof the dropping height being a certain number of times the model height.
I consider it a matter of vertical descent speed (feet per second velocity) in the event of flaring too late or not flaring at all. These are conditions where I try to have my models bounce but not get damage to the landing gear or structure. At least minimize any damage.
I enjoyed your comparison to a Boeing 737. I would not want to be in it __
_ _ Gheeee ...... I found very interesting what Boeing typically do to test the strength of their wings.
Ii have seen pictures of the wings mounted upside down in a jig and loaded with bags of heavy stuff distributed according to the wing loading at different areas of the wing. There is nothing better than experimentations to verify engineering calculations.
I drop my models to help assure that little (if any) damage occur in rough landings.
Yes I sometime have a rough landing. I am not the best pilot with models
. I have learned how to control speed on approach and usually start the flare out at least 10 feet above ground and do it slowly to end up a foot or so above ground. I much prefer wheel landings above stall speed. Trying to reach stall speed just above ground often results in a slight climb at the last moment and an actual stall 5 to anything above ground (like 10 or 20 feet). That is another situation where a solid landing gear is valuable.
Have a great day whenever you read this.
Zor
01-31-2012, 09:47 PM
#1378
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Hey Guys,
Been struggling the last couple of days with the forum trying to upload pics. One of the admin guys state, they are working on the issue and also updating the forums as whole so we may have to tolerate a few glitches for a while during the process. More work on the struts. coming along. I sanded them some today but failed to get pics. Hope the previous ones upload.
Been struggling the last couple of days with the forum trying to upload pics. One of the admin guys state, they are working on the issue and also updating the forums as whole so we may have to tolerate a few glitches for a while during the process. More work on the struts. coming along. I sanded them some today but failed to get pics. Hope the previous ones upload.
01-31-2012, 09:51 PM
#1379
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
some more. Thought I would show you what I cut the cloth with. Also, I roll some masking tape backwards and stick to a trash can. This way, when the little fiberglass strands stick to my fingers, I just work the tape between my fingers and it pulls the little strands off my glove.
02-02-2012, 01:50 PM
#1380
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Hey all, so I am getting close to needing to cover my Dec, and was wondering how many rolls would be needed of each color to match this scheme, I am thinking of useing the 21st century iron on fabric any input on this covering? specifically weight vs monokote or equivalent
02-03-2012, 08:02 AM
#1381
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
G8er,
I checked the destructions,
and they say two fifteen foot rolls are needed. If you are like me and tend to waste a little[:@], you might want to have a little extra on hand.
I plan to get back out in the shop this evening and try to finish up the struts. I don't like them very much and have been procrastinating a little on them. I sanded on them some the other night as I did not do as good a job with the fiberglassing as I should have. I don't have problems coating fuses or any type of flat or slightly rounded surfaces with the cloth, but I really screwed the pooch on this one and have a lot of sanding to do in order to get it in better shape. I'm glad this is going to be something to fly around and not a competive scale ship, as I'm not really happy with my performance on this build.
Have a great day everybody, today is Friday and the weekend is upon us.
I checked the destructions,
and they say two fifteen foot rolls are needed. If you are like me and tend to waste a little[:@], you might want to have a little extra on hand. I plan to get back out in the shop this evening and try to finish up the struts. I don't like them very much and have been procrastinating a little on them. I sanded on them some the other night as I did not do as good a job with the fiberglassing as I should have. I don't have problems coating fuses or any type of flat or slightly rounded surfaces with the cloth, but I really screwed the pooch on this one and have a lot of sanding to do in order to get it in better shape. I'm glad this is going to be something to fly around and not a competive scale ship, as I'm not really happy with my performance on this build.
Have a great day everybody, today is Friday and the weekend is upon us
.
02-03-2012, 10:26 AM
#1382
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
yeah I saw the recommended amounts of covering as well, but I doubt 15' of white is needed for that scheme. I have never used the iron on fabric stuff before and I don't even see it at any LHS so I am really curious about weight, and does it actually look that much better then regular old monokote/ultracote
02-03-2012, 02:49 PM
#1383
Banned
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
ORIGINAL: G8er
yeah I saw the recommended amounts of covering as well, but I doubt 15' of white is needed for that scheme. I have never used the iron on fabric stuff before and I don't even see it at any LHS so I am really curious about weight, and does it actually look that much better then regular old monokote/ultracote
yeah I saw the recommended amounts of covering as well, but I doubt 15' of white is needed for that scheme. I have never used the iron on fabric stuff before and I don't even see it at any LHS so I am really curious about weight, and does it actually look that much better then regular old monokote/ultracote
With a real fabric covering each thread has to break under tension for the fabric to tear. Light weight Ceconite has 90 threads per inch in both orientation (90 degrees) and no nap. If the covering does not tear there is all the chances that the structure will not be damaged (crash protection).
Full size airplane are not using plastic sheeting film for obvious reasons.
My latest build is using Ceconite and genuine aircraft dope like the full size airplanes.
I have always used fabric and dope except in the early years with tissue on small models but still using dope.
It is well worth the time. Is not this hobby to occupy our leisure times ? It does not matter how long it takes to build a model. If it is well built it will last a very long time and have very little damage in a crash.
I am not telling you what to do; I am telling you what I do.
Zor
02-05-2012, 09:08 AM
#1384
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
I have attached a few more pics of the Decat. I have sanded the mess off of the struts but as you can see, have more to go to get them looking decent. Also, have added a filler block in the wing to fill an accessive gap between the wing and the windshield. (forgot to take pics of that one but will get them today). Cut the windshield out and trimmed it to fit. It was not molded to provide the best fit so I clamped it to the fuse and heated it with my covering gun. This brought it in to shape fairly well. Still working a little slow as I'm still working with a buddy on his planes in addition to mine. He has been going through a little learning curve, but is beginning to get a pretty good feel for the hobby now and doing well. The last pic is an idea I took from a gentleman that had listed it Model Airplane News this month. He took a hole saw and cut out some lucite disk to use as washers under his wing hold down bolts to spread out the stress at the bolt area. Looked like a good idea, so I though I would try it on this one.
BTW: I noticed rcuniverse is working a little better yesterday and today. Looks like they are coming along on their redesign.
BTW: I noticed rcuniverse is working a little better yesterday and today. Looks like they are coming along on their redesign.
02-05-2012, 04:36 PM
#1385
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Attached are a few pictures, the trim scheme, Black, White, and Metallic Gold. Got the wing done, and hope to get to the fuse this week. I also reinforced the landing gear with the music wire wheel collar trick.ED
02-05-2012, 07:57 PM
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Bill, I used what Ihad laying around, 5/32" and matching wheel collars, It did significantly stiffen the gear up. I hope that it will be enough, I still need to make the filler piece around the gear and fuse, I will make it removable, in case I need to make new gear. I used a file and my cordless drill to adjust the length of the screws for the wheel collars so they would tighten to the landing gear, and wire at the same time.
ED
ED
02-06-2012, 07:13 AM
#1388
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
I think I've got some 5/32 in the shop. I don't know if I'm going to make a filler block or not. Probably will but I've got a Great Planes Giant 330L out in the shop just begging me to get started on it. I have to build a couple of wild things from plans first, but they are pretty simple planes and shouldn't take too long. Especially since I plan to build both at the same time.
I have to build a couple of wild things from plans first, but they are pretty simple planes and shouldn't take too long. Especially since I plan to build both at the same time.
02-06-2012, 07:29 AM
#1389
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Regardign the covering - now I would definitelly go with Koverall (as I did with SIG Spacewalker 1/3). It requires more work, but it's indestructible
My Decathlon was covered using Oracover
Original:
and a copy:
My Decathlon was covered using Oracover
Original:
and a copy:
02-12-2012, 09:34 AM
#1392
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
G8er,
Sorry, I don't know about the remote glow. I havn't decided on the fuel filler myself. I may conceal filler and switches by building an internal compartment with a hatch if I can find a couple of those little super magnets everybody talks about for the compartment door.
Have more pics. The first two are adding some balsa shims to the wing gap and checking windshield clearence.
The third one is of the wash out incidence. Having a little trouble here. Plans call for 2 degrees. I built per plans over the jig, but with the struts on, I get 1 degree of washout each side. Struts are not strong enough to force another degree on each side, so one degree will have to do. I'll check again when completed and covered.
Fourth pic is the Ohio tail wheel I plan to use, I don't care for the one that came in the kit.
Picture number five, I took mRqs (Marek)'s advice and added ridges at the rear of the fuse. This pic shows me cutting some 1/8 inch thick strip for the riddges.
Pictures six and seven show the ridge strips installed on the fuse.
Sorry, I don't know about the remote glow. I havn't decided on the fuel filler myself. I may conceal filler and switches by building an internal compartment with a hatch if I can find a couple of those little super magnets everybody talks about for the compartment door.
Have more pics. The first two are adding some balsa shims to the wing gap and checking windshield clearence.
The third one is of the wash out incidence. Having a little trouble here. Plans call for 2 degrees. I built per plans over the jig, but with the struts on, I get 1 degree of washout each side. Struts are not strong enough to force another degree on each side, so one degree will have to do. I'll check again when completed and covered.
Fourth pic is the Ohio tail wheel I plan to use, I don't care for the one that came in the kit.
Picture number five, I took mRqs (Marek)'s advice and added ridges at the rear of the fuse. This pic shows me cutting some 1/8 inch thick strip for the riddges.
Pictures six and seven show the ridge strips installed on the fuse.
02-12-2012, 11:36 AM
#1394
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Hi there:
Count me in! I just placed an order for DF super decathlon. I've been following the posts on your building (actually I subcribed to it). Can't wait for the next "episode". I have also placed an order for the Zenoah G38. I fly glow and this is going to be my first gasser.
I plan to copy Marek's colors, but have a concern with the paint for the cowling. It's hard to find matching paint to the covering (I'll be using Coverite fabric) Any suggestions?
Count me in! I just placed an order for DF super decathlon. I've been following the posts on your building (actually I subcribed to it). Can't wait for the next "episode". I have also placed an order for the Zenoah G38. I fly glow and this is going to be my first gasser.
I plan to copy Marek's colors, but have a concern with the paint for the cowling. It's hard to find matching paint to the covering (I'll be using Coverite fabric) Any suggestions?
02-12-2012, 11:36 AM
#1395
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Ed,
May have to drill an extra hole in the mounting portion of the tail wheel as it is a little longer than the TW plate. I probably won't have a lot of pics tonight as I'm mainly sanding this afternoon, trying to hide glue joints, mistakes, etc. I'll take one or two if I get far enough along to install servos and controls in the rear area. I think, I may have a little cold and it's making me a little lazy today, but I have a great central heating system in the shop so I can stay warm. Temp is in the 20's F. here today... and windy... [:'(]
May have to drill an extra hole in the mounting portion of the tail wheel as it is a little longer than the TW plate. I probably won't have a lot of pics tonight as I'm mainly sanding this afternoon, trying to hide glue joints, mistakes, etc. I'll take one or two if I get far enough along to install servos and controls in the rear area. I think, I may have a little cold and it's making me a little lazy today, but I have a great central heating system in the shop so I can stay warm. Temp is in the 20's F. here today... and windy... [:'(]
02-12-2012, 11:45 AM
#1396
Senior Member
RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Bolt,
I think you'll find it's a pretty good build. Instructions leave a little to be desired, but they are not bad. I went to Tower's site and printed them off as the book they send is a little small. What i printed is full size and easier to read. I think the engine you chose is probably the best engine. I've heard a lot of good things about the Zenoah and they have been around a long time.
If you have not already done it, read the thread in it's entirity. It's pretty long but our predessors in this thread have given a lot of good ideas and examples.
Glad to see you come on board. I will follow your build, even when mine is completed because, if I have an incident and have to rebuild, I'll watch what ever ideas you come up with. It's good everybody gets on and shares because it makes the builds and the hobby in general much better.
Just noticed you're from Miami. Wish we had your temperature today. My Aunt (by marriage) is a Cuban American raised in Little Havanah. My Uncle worked at a newspaper and met her at a conference down there as she worked for Assoiated press at the time.
I think you'll find it's a pretty good build. Instructions leave a little to be desired, but they are not bad. I went to Tower's site and printed them off as the book they send is a little small. What i printed is full size and easier to read. I think the engine you chose is probably the best engine. I've heard a lot of good things about the Zenoah and they have been around a long time.
If you have not already done it, read the thread in it's entirity. It's pretty long but our predessors in this thread have given a lot of good ideas and examples.
Glad to see you come on board. I will follow your build, even when mine is completed because, if I have an incident and have to rebuild, I'll watch what ever ideas you come up with. It's good everybody gets on and shares because it makes the builds and the hobby in general much better.
Just noticed you're from Miami. Wish we had your temperature today. My Aunt (by marriage) is a Cuban American raised in Little Havanah. My Uncle worked at a newspaper and met her at a conference down there as she worked for Assoiated press at the time.
02-12-2012, 11:47 AM
#1397
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
02-12-2012, 03:32 PM
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
Thanks for you kind words. I live in the western part of the city, close to the Everglades, away from traffic and all the inner city noise. I consider myself a kit builder but would like to get a better knowledge in covering with Koverall, I think this airplane “cries” for a good covering job and paint. Well, let’s see what happens. Any information on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
Today the temperature has been in the 60 with a beautiful sunny day. For us Floridians, this is freezing cold!
Today the temperature has been in the 60 with a beautiful sunny day. For us Floridians, this is freezing cold!
02-12-2012, 04:45 PM
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RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon
ORIGINAL: BOLT
Thanks for you kind words. I live in the western part of the city, close to the Everglades, away from traffic and all the inner city noise. I consider myself a kit builder but would like to get a better knowledge in covering with Koverall, I think this airplane “cries” for a good covering job and paint. Well, let’s see what happens. Any information on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
Today the temperature has been in the 60 with a beautiful sunny day. For us Floridians, this is freezing cold!
Thanks for you kind words. I live in the western part of the city, close to the Everglades, away from traffic and all the inner city noise. I consider myself a kit builder but would like to get a better knowledge in covering with Koverall, I think this airplane “cries” for a good covering job and paint. Well, let’s see what happens. Any information on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
Today the temperature has been in the 60 with a beautiful sunny day. For us Floridians, this is freezing cold!
Ken