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Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon



WILDCRASHWILLY,

I love your color scheme.

I have finished my Spectra sailplane in just about the same shades of yellow and green with some small areas white.

A nice color complement.

Zor


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Old 09-10-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon



WILDCRASHWILLY,

I love your color scheme.

I have finished my Spectra sailplane in just about the same shades of yellow and green with some small areas white.

A nice color complement.

Zor

P.S.: RCU was not responding to my posting so I tried again thus this duplicate. I am having difficulties with RCU recently.

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Old 09-11-2012, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Thank you Zor,

As you may have read, I've had issues with the Monocoat. As a result, I'm ripping the Monocoat off and going back with the Ultracoat that I have never had an issue with. Unfortunately I'm removing the green and yellow as it has not cooperated. I'm going back with the blue with white stars. Early on, you recommended I should try cloth. I didn't because I was unfamiliar with it. I should have listened to you and tried it. If the bottom had been less successful, I would strip it all and do the cloth now but I'm trying to salvage some invested time at this point.

Glad your sailplane has worked out.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:35 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

I know what you mean about the monokote, used to be Able to throw it on, shrink it and forget it. Now it's shrink is not very consistent from one color/roll to another. I used it on mine, but it sure takes more time than before.
Ed
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Quote:
Quote:
ORIGINAL: WILDCRASHWILLY

Thank you Zor,

As you may have read, I've had issues with the Monocoat. As a result, I'm ripping the Monocoat off and going back with the Ultracoat that I have never had an issue with. Unfortunately I'm removing the green and yellow as it has not cooperated. I'm going back with the blue with white stars. Early on, you recommended I should try cloth. I didn't because I was unfamiliar with it. I should have listened to you and tried it. If the bottom had been less successful, I would strip it all and do the cloth now but I'm trying to salvage some invested time at this point.

Glad your sailplane has worked out.
You never have these problems with fabric and dope.

This is Ceconite light and Randolph dope.

Just picked upa couple of pics to show the color scheme.

The Spectra is now finished.

Zor
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon


Quote:
ORIGINAL: WILDCRASHWILLY

Thank you Zor,

As you may have read, I've had issues with the Monocoat. As a result, I'm ripping the Monocoat off and going back with the Ultracoat that I have never had an issue with. Unfortunately I'm removing the green and yellow as it has not cooperated. I'm going back with the blue with white stars. Early on, you recommended I should try cloth. I didn't because I was unfamiliar with it. I should have listened to you and tried it. If the bottom had been less successful, I would strip it all and do the cloth now but I'm trying to salvage some invested time at this point.

Glad your sailplane has worked out.
wildcrashwilly, that's a riot for me reading what you said here.

I'm a confirmed doper from the beginning of time. Hate that plastic stuff, no matter what the brand.

When I first did my Super Decathlon, it was naturally fabric covered. Then I started painting and can't believe for the life of me that it got screwed up beyond salvage. Tore everything off - probably about a hundred bucks or so of materials at that stage - and put on Ultracote, with great success. Well, let's just say as successful as plastic can be compared to fabric and dope.

Complete opposite of your experience. Mind you, I still think that the fabric and dope is superior.

All the best with your fix.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Last week our club voted to allow flying of gasoline fueled engines during the summer (Yay!!!!). When I built my SD 2 years ago, I installed a glow engine (Saito 180). But now that I don't need to use a glow engine, and I have another use for the Saito, I'm looking at a suitable gasser.

I'm leaning toward a G-38. That will give me some more weight in the nose so I should be able to get rid of some ballast. And, I really do not want an engine with electronic ignition. Not sure about any prop clearance problems if I go with an 18" prop it should be OK. But 20" might be getting too long. Also would hope not to have to do much modification of the nose/cowling.

I've run through this thread looking for some projects with G-38 installations, but it's grown so long...

So,I'd appreciate any comments from y'all.

Dave
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:57 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Dabrown
The g 38 is perfect in my book, mine didn't require any added weight to balance. Plenty of power and fits the plane well.
Ed
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Ran a Magnum 180 4 stroke in my Decathlon last year. Was scale-like, minimum power. Used 350 to 400 feet of a grass runway on takeoff. Now running a 55cc DLE gas 2 stroke behind a 22x10 wooden prop. Awesome power for takeoff using approx. 100 feet for lift-off. The difference is like night and day. Fun level up like 100%. I moved the rudder and elevator servos above the rear hatch and the battery in front of the servos. Mounted the 16 oz. fuel tank center of the cg in the cockpit. Also installed 1/4" additional plywood to the firewall. Pinned the firewall w/1/8" hardwood dowels. Changed out the wheels to 6"inflatable Duo Bro foe prop clearance. The cost was more of a issue than the modifications. Worth every dollar as the fun level was well worth it. Flown RC fuelies for 18 years plus, no other airplane has been more enjoyable.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

do335a,

The one silver lining of the issue is, that the Monocoat did such a poor job of sticking to the wings I was able to rip it off with minimal effort. Did pull a little filler out that I had used on a few rough places on the wing but a little refill and some very light sanding and the wing will be good as new. I did not strip the top of the fuse yet, will probably do that sometime this next week end. Hopefully it will come off as easily as it did the wings. I dorked a landing up a little on my edge and broke the tip off my 26 X 10 propeller. $50 bucks down the drain. I'll spend a little time on it first so I can fly it again Sat., but I'll get back on the decath Saturday night.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:51 AM
  #1661
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Ed,

What muffler are you using? Was there enough clearance for it or did you build up a box on the firewall for the mount with the muffler below it?


dave

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Old 09-18-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

I used a cup mount with a Pitts muffler, no modifications were necessary to the firewall. The prop hub was perfect distance.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

I just read about your selection of the G38. It's a great engine. I talked about it with a friend in my club who is has used them often, he says is a great engine with an idle that just won't quit on you. The only negative comment I got from him was that w/o an electronic ignition you will need a starter otherwise the engine won't run. There's something about the torque needed for starting it. With an electronic ignition he told me it will start in a flip.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

They have spring starters for these engines but I've never found the need for one. Not the G38 but Quadras and G-23s. I was able to hand start them. You need to make sure they are well primed/choked then use a flipping technique that gets some good speed going.

I know what you mean about the electronic ignition where you can get a spark just by barely turning the prop. With the magneto, I the magnet needs to move past the armature fast enough to create the spark. So when I get tired of flippin' that's what flying buddies are for, right?

Dave
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Yes I use an electric starter. The zenoah will out last the plane, and it runs very smooth.
Ed
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

If you take a look at the Zenoah manual for the magneto ignition engines, you'll see they are very particular about the position of the prop relative to the magnerts on the flywheel, particularily for hand starting. Zenoah suggests that if you don't postion it properly, it will never start since you won't get the correct spark.

I've also heard that you need to have the prop rotating at a rate of about 600 rpm to generate sufficient spark.

On my G-62 I use a recoil sping starter and it takes about 3-4 flips withthat to run. The first 2-3 are with choke on to get fuel into the cylinder and have it fire. The next is with choke off and it runs.

Reports that I've heard about the G-38 are generally the same. Some though report great succes in hand starting without the recoil spring starter.

Earlier on in the discussion, you'll see that people are using the G-38 with great success in the Super Decathlon.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:24 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Question about the wing incidence:

The plans call for a -2 degree incidence in the wing but upon checking (I'm in the process of drilling the wing dowels holes) with my Robart incidence meter the wing sitting in the fuselage gives me 2 degrees positve! Is there a mistake in the plans? I tried to see the corrections that I would have to do to turn this into a -2 degrees but it seriously distort the fuselage. Any suggestions?
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:39 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

It would be extremely difficult to built in +2 degrees of incidence for the wing.

If you look at the die cut fuselage sides, you will notice that they are shaped to match the airfoil and cut so that when the wing sits on the sides the incidence is the specified -2 degrees.

To get the +2, you'd need to have altered the wing seat or not have the wing on the seat - which may be the way it was when the fromnt dowel peg holes were drilled and the pegs installed.

Why not check just once more to be certain befoire you start hacking up the plane?

If the dowel pegs were improperly located, why not start there. Dig into the wing and reposition them. That's very easy to do.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon


Quote:
ORIGINAL: do335a

It would be extremely difficult to built in +2 degrees of incidence for the wing.

If you look at the die cut fuselage sides, you will notice that they are shaped to match the airfoil and cut so that when the wing sits on the sides the incidence is the specified -2 degrees.

To get the +2, you'd need to have altered the wing seat or not have the wing on the seat - which may be the way it was when the fromnt dowel peg holes were drilled and the pegs installed.

Why not check just once more to be certain befoire you start hacking up the plane?

If the dowel pegs were improperly located, why not start there. Dig into the wing and reposition them. That's very easy to do.
do335a,

I scrolled way back and did not find other postings relating to this incidence.

Is this accidentally in the wrong thread?

The main wing incidence whether it is + or - (plus or minus) 2 degrees only affects the fuselage attitude / appearance in flight. The decalage angle is the important angle.

Any line can be used as the reference line in as much as any incidence angle is measured to the same reference line.

Zor
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:44 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

Thanks for your promp response;

I haven't installed the dowels yet. I was measuring the incidence before drilling the holes in the front plate. I gave it another look again, the fuselage is perfecly horizontal, the wings were properly built (I think). When they are positioned in the fuse there's no gap between them and the fuselage, but still it measures exactly 2 degrees positive. I'm still wondering what's happening here. Keep you posted. Thanks again.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BOLT

Thanks for your promp response;

I haven't installed the dowels yet. I was measuring the incidence before drilling the holes in the front plate. I gave it another look again, the fuselage is perfecly horizontal, the wings were properly built (I think). When they are positioned in the fuse there's no gap between them and the fuselage, but still it measures exactly 2 degrees positive. I'm still wondering what's happening here. Keep you posted. Thanks again.
BOLT,

Scrolling back again I now see your previous post.

My ISP was slow in posting it or showing it.

The 2 degrees positive is the proper incidence.

We can suspect that character "-" is meant as a dash and not a minus sign.

That is my deduction.

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Old 10-07-2012, 08:22 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

THANKS A MILLION !!!!! I've been building kits for many years and this issue was driving me nuts. Your deduction makes perfect sense. Thanks again.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Zor


Quote:
ORIGINAL: do335a

It would be extremely difficult to built in +2 degrees of incidence for the wing.

If you look at the die cut fuselage sides, you will notice that they are shaped to match the airfoil and cut so that when the wing sits on the sides the incidence is the specified -2 degrees.

To get the +2, you'd need to have altered the wing seat or not have the wing on the seat - which may be the way it was when the fromnt dowel peg holes were drilled and the pegs installed.

Why not check just once more to be certain befoire you start hacking up the plane?

If the dowel pegs were improperly located, why not start there. Dig into the wing and reposition them. That's very easy to do.
do335a,

I scrolled way back and did not find other postings relating to this incidence.

Is this accidentally in the wrong thread ?

The main wing incidence whether it is + or - (plus or minus) 2 degrees only affects the fuselage attitude / appearance in flight. The decalage angle is the important angle.

Any line can be used as the reference line in as much as any incidence angle is measured to the same reference line.

Zor
I no longer have the benefit of my plane or plan since I sold them off a year or two ago. However, I do recall that the setup appeared a bit unusual. The engine was set with negaive thrust, the stab was set at negative incidence and as I recall, as it looks in the manual, the wing was negative as well. Mind you. I could be wrong. Sometimes our memories tell us one thing with 100% conviction when the reality is entirely different. Howeer, it sure looks negative in the instruction manual.

Have a look It's quite obvious that everything is negative.

A check of the plans will verify everything.

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Old 10-07-2012, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon

I have isome pictures to show you about the incidence but I don't know how to download them here. I also checked the stab and it gives 2.5 degrees positive!
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: Building a Dynaflite Super Decathlon


Quote:
ORIGINAL: do335a

I no longer have the benefit of my plane or plan since I sold them off a year or two ago. However, I do recall that the setup appeared a bit unusual. The engine was set with negaive thrust, the stab was set at negative incidence and as I recall, as it looks in the manual, the wing was negative as well. Mind you. I could be wrong. Sometimes our memories tell us one thing with 100% conviction when the reality is entirely different. Howeer, it sure looks negative in the instruction manual.

Have a look It's quite obvious that everything is negative.

A check of the plans will verify everything.
There is nothing wrong with the negatives.
It is just a matter of what reference line is in use.

Imagine that the main wings incidence is plus 2 degrees and the stab is zero degrees to the reference line.

Now select a reference line which is 4 degrees from the initial line with the front of the line upward.
Now the main wings incidence is minus 2 degrees and the stab is minus 4 degrees but nothing has changed else than the selection of the reference line.

Nothing has changed with the model.

Whenever a drawing shows an incidence angle it has to be obvious what is the reference line.
Most drawings have the reference line parrallel to the base of the drawing. We might say the rectangular lines within which the drawing is done.

Note that the distance of the reference line from the items, wings or stab does not change the angles.

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