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Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Old 12-17-2008, 08:48 PM
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Balsawings
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Default Super Decathlon scratch or kit

The Super Decathlon is one plane I've wanted to build for years. I've finally decided it's time. The problem is finding a kit or plans for the size plane I want. I would like to build a plane to use an OS 1.20 four stroke so I'm looking for a kit or plans in the 80"-85" range. Now before I get 10 responses telling me to buy the Dynaflite kit, let me say I've been looking at it, but am unhappy with the finished weight of that kit. If I'm going to have to redesign a kit to come out lighter, I might as well build from scratch. There in lies my other problem. The only plans I can find are from Hostetler in the 30% and 33% size and yes I've even bought the 30% plans. I just don't feel like building anything that requires a 60cc engine right now. I even thought about the .40 size kit from Great Planes and scaling up but the kit's not available any longer.

So, I'm looking for plans or kit of a Super Decathlon for a 1.20 four stroke. Any suggestions. Below is the plane I want to model.

Bob Cox
SPA 374
Miami, FL
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

I'm in love with the Decathlon as well. Currently building a Midwest Citabria. The full scale planes are almost identical in looks. Only difference is the wing profile, G rating and actual wingspan. From a distance, or to the untrained eye, they are hard to tell apart.

The Dynaflite isn't all that heavy. You don't have to completely redesign the kit to lighten it. Just use some contest balsa to replace sheeting. That alone could save close to a pound. Build it light. Use CF gear. Use a CF spinner. Use MH batteries instead of nicad or li-po. Use contest grade sticks in the tail section, instead of the stock balsa. Contest balsa is just as strong, but 1/3 the weight. Personally, I'd much rather bash a kit to lighten it up instead of reinventing the wheel. I'll bet you could get it under 14lbs if you put some effort into it. Get a plan BEFORE you start gluing it together.

I know thats not what you wanted to hear. But you know your choices are extremely limited. There just aren't many kits out there in the size you want. The Dynaflite is pretty much your only choice.
Old 12-17-2008, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Can't help you with plans but it's a beautiful plane. Looks like this one is painted up like a Super chipmunk. It looks like a great flyer.

Bill
Old 12-17-2008, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit


ORIGINAL: Ram Jet

Can't help you with plans but it's a beautiful plane. Looks like this one is painted up like a Super chipmunk. It looks like a great flyer.

Bill
Thats not a Super Chipmunk paint scheme. Thats a TRADITIONAL Decathlon. You obviously haven't seen many Decathlons to make a statement like that.
Old 12-17-2008, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Can you scale this electric design up?

http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=2874

That would be more work than lightening the Dynaflite but you asked for alternatives.
Old 12-17-2008, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

I think the best alternative what he wants, is to scratch build a Pilot Super Decathlon 1/4 scale from plans.
In my opinion, the best scale model of a Super Decathlon.
The plans are hard to find and what to say the kit.
At this moment, I'm starting one. Really, a great challenge.

Regards
Old 12-17-2008, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

RCM has a set of plans for an electric Decathlon with a wingspan of 72". That could easily be scaled up to the size you want to build.

The plans can be found here:
[link]http://rcmmagazine.com/store/store-plans-catalog-tem.html?item=plans:PL-1067&sid=00016ub5eG27IeEfMI5V265[/link]

Ken
Old 12-17-2008, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Sig still sells a Citabria kit. You could scale that up. Use the left menu and click on Aircraft> Kits> Scale kits

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...FV4.html?E+Sig

Here is a full scale Decathlon and a full scale Citabria. Not much difference.

First 3 pics are the Citabria.
Last 3 pics are the Decathlon.



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Old 12-17-2008, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Rcpilot,

The thought of giving $130 for a 43" kit that has a Clark Y airfoil just doesn't spark my interest. The Decathlon has a semi-symmetrical airfoil not a Clark Y. It wouldn't be as aerobatic as I would like. Of course it would be a simple matter of scaling up to twice the size to be perfect for the 1.20 though.

I appreciate the suggestion and will keep it in mind.

Bob
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

RCken,

Through all my searching I missed that one. Thanks for the link. I'll add it to the possibilities. This is why I started this topic. I just knew you guys would come through with suggestions. Keep 'em coming.

Thanks

Bob
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

ORIGINAL: Balsawings

yes I've even bought the 30% plans. I just don't feel like building anything that requires a 60cc engine right now. I even thought about the .40 size kit from Great Planes and scaling up but the kit's not available any longer.
Why not scale down the 30% plans you already have?

I have a Dynaflite, and even with lightening it significantly I think a 1.20 4 stroke would be undersized. Scaling down those 30% plans to an 80" wing or so (70% of the 115" wing would be 80.5" ) should be pretty close. Would come out to a 21% Decathlon, and still IMAA legal if that matters.
Old 12-18-2008, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Add a cabin to the BUSA Citabria Pro.
Old 12-18-2008, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

I'm seriously considering getting the RCM plans and scaling up. At 72", I would only have to scale up 1.15 % to get an 82" wing. There's no weight given, but I would like for it to come out less than 10lb. The only problem with this choice is having to make my own cowling. Never done one but there's always a fist time.

I've also sent an e-mail to a gentleman who has plans for the Pilot SD. I'm waiting to see if he can help me out before I make a decision.
I know some of the fiberglass company's out there used to offer parts for the Pilot kits but I can't find one now that offers them. Might have to make some calls to see if any of them still have the molds.

And yes, I would like for it to be IMAA legal. I've never understood why someone would design a model that is only an inch or two short of being large enough to be legal.

Bob Cox
Miami FL


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Old 12-18-2008, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

I just found a 62 inch Citabria in the Model Airplane News that is calling for a .60 to a .90?? #fsp05691 That should scale up pretty well. My plans directory is an older one so they may have the Decathlon in a newer directory in there giant scale plans. The AMA plans department may have one too.
Old 12-18-2008, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Grey Beard,

I've searched MAN's Rc Store and can not come up with the Citabria. I tried searching for the plan number you gave and also just going through their list but no luck.

Bob Cox
Miami, FL
Old 12-18-2008, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit


ORIGINAL: Balsawings


I know some of the fiberglass company's out there used to offer parts for the Pilot kits but I can't find one now that offers them. Might have to make some calls to see if any of them still have the molds.



You can find the cowl at

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/catalog.htm

under HOBBY SHACK/PILOT/EZ


Old 12-18-2008, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Bob, if you call them tomorrow they will be able to find it for you. I will look and see if I have a newer number for it but some of the older numbers may not be shown. It's a balsa/ply build Ws 62L43 and designed by Fred Angle's and is shown in the scale section. I didn't find one in the giant scale though?? That was a surprise.
Old 12-18-2008, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

The numbers I gave are out of the Forth Edition plans directory and what they are showing now are The Best of Model Airplane News. They have an 800 number to phone, 800 537 5874 and they should be able to help you. I have ordered from this old one and gotten plans I wanted.
Old 12-18-2008, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Hi Bob,

You may find the following of interest?:

http://www.hacker-model.com/uk/decat3.html
http://www.airbornemagazine.com.au
http://www.modelflying.co.uk

The first is for a large scale RTF where you may be able to source plans and the latter two magazine sites both have a large plan library that you may not have checked.

Merry Christmas,

Colin
Old 12-18-2008, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Crash,

Hacker has an 80" Super Decathlon that weighs 10 lbs and calls for up to a .91ci engine. I don't think I would feel to bad putting a 1.20 in that one. The XXL is cool too. [8D]

The weight is right where I want the plane to be. I'm seriously considering campaigning a Decathlon in basic IMAC just for kicks and giggles. I'm a pattern guy and I just don't care what my score would be in IMAC. It's just for fun.

Now if I can just find out the cost and availability here in the states.

I'm still looking and considering though. I'm in a building mood and still like the idea of building one out of good ole balsa and ply. I have checked the plans at Airborne and the do have a Citabria but no Decathlon. Plus, the Citabria is 110 inch wing.

Model flying has a Citabria that's 80 inches. It's turning out that there are plenty of Citabria plans of the right size but no Super Decathlons. Weird![]

Bob Cox
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Hi Bob,

Sorry I wasn't much help. Good luck with the search.

Cheers,

Colin
Old 12-20-2008, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit


ORIGINAL: Balsawings

The Super Decathlon is one plane I've wanted to build for years. I've finally decided it's time. The problem is finding a kit or plans for the size plane I want. I would like to build a plane to use an OS 1.20 four stroke so I'm looking for a kit or plans in the 80"-85" range. Now before I get 10 responses telling me to buy the Dynaflite kit, let me say I've been looking at it, but am unhappy with the finished weight of that kit. If I'm going to have to redesign a kit to come out lighter, I might as well build from scratch. There in lies my other problem. The only plans I can find are from Hostetler in the 30% and 33% size and yes I've even bought the 30% plans. I just don't feel like building anything that requires a 60cc engine right now. I even thought about the .40 size kit from Great Planes and scaling up but the kit's not available any longer.

So, I'm looking for plans or kit of a Super Decathlon for a 1.20 four stroke. Any suggestions. Below is the plane I want to model.

Bob Cox
SPA 374
Miami, FL

-


Just consider the heavy parts of the Dynaflite kit to be templates for scratch building your own version from lighter wood, then repackage the Dynaflite kit and sell it when you are finished using it.


Ed Cregger
Old 12-20-2008, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Balsawings,
It seams your about out of luck finding a Decathlon kit to fit your engine.

Any builder should be able to cut a set of symmetrical wing ribs and bash the Citabria into a Decathlon. It wouldn't be that hard to bash a Citabria into a Decathlon and 99% of the people in the modeling community would never know if you just told them it was a Decathlon.

I love bashing kits. Thats the fun of a kit build. Anybody can slap an ARF together or shake-n-pour a Sig kit out of the box. It's much more fun for me to customize and bash a kit into something really unique. I said it before and I'll say it again...... buy a Citabria kit and bash it into your Decathlon. I'm not sure if you've seen my build thread on the Midwest Citabria. I'll bet ya dollars to donuts when I show up at the field with it.......the guys will think it's a Decathlon. I'm tellin' ya the planes are almost identical. The full scale Decathlon is just bigger and has a symmetrical wing with a higher G-rating. How many modelers will know the difference if you bash a Citabria into a Decathlon? Probably 3 in the entire USA. And they don't fly at your field.

Or:

You could go bigger and build one for a gas engine. [8D] That would be my preference.
Old 12-20-2008, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

Rcpilot,

I've thought of bashing a Citabria. There is only one concern. The wing incidence will be different on the Decathlon. If I knew exactly what the incidence is on the Decathlon, then it really wouldn't be a problem to redesign the Citabria to fit my needs.

Ed,

I've also thought of using the Dynaflite kit just as you're suggesting. I'm just not sure if I would loose enough weight to get it light enough for the 1.20. Even the Hacker ARF with an 80" wing and fiberglass fuse comes out to almost 10 lbs. and 10 lbs. is what I would like to end up with. Of course I could quit trying to be cheap and buy a different engine for the Dynaflite kit.

At this point I'm leaning towards the RCM&E Citabria plans and changing the wing. But as stated above. I would just need to know the wing incidence in order to do a proper job of it and end up with a plane that flies like it should.



Bob Cox
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Old 12-20-2008, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Super Decathlon scratch or kit

When you say "flies like it should", it makes me want to ask you if you are shooting for absolute scale flying characteristics? That can't be truly done because of the size of the air molecules remaining the same, but the Decathlon is smaller. Additionally, full size planes aren't turning every quarter mile or less so that they can stay near to a fixed position on the Earth, as are R/C models. These little details make a big difference in how one should trim the model.

If you are talking about enhancing the aerobatic characteristics of the plane, that is a different matter entirely. Do away with any positive incidence in the wing and use about two degrees of positive incidence in the horizontal stabilizer. That will get you into the ball park. Flat bottom, Clark Y type airfoils are still producing lift at two degrees negative incidence, so don't worry about that aspect of it. I have taken to actually flying my flat bottom wings at 1/2 to 1 degree of negative incidence. This makes the airfoil behave more like a semi-symmetrical section and has the plane flying more neutrally stable, which is good for aerobatics, but doesn't deteriorate the gentle handling characteristics by much at all.


Ed Cregger

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