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Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Old 12-29-2005, 04:44 AM
  #301  
jamie_duff
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Hello everybody.

I've been reading this thread for some time now but last night I dusted off my kit box and pulled out all my modelling equipment. I'm now building the Top Flite P-51 I picked up maybe 7 years ago

First model I've touched since moving into this house in May................

So far I have a fin, rudder, tail plane (horizontal stabilizer to you Americans ) and one wing. I'm going to lay up the spars for the other wing this morning after breakfast.

I have CJM retracts and Robart retractable tail wheel on order. Need to order an electronic gear door sequencer I saw on the web a few days ago and another couple of air cylinders.

I built the TF P-47 a few years ago and as my first warbird it wasn't particularly well engineered (charging jacks etc in un-clever places) so it's currently my most unreliable model. It's due a strip down and rebuild........... It is however a fairly pleasant model to fly, although I've never gotten past the racing heart you normally only get on the maiden flights

Has anyone concealed their control linkages fully? If so I'd be interested to know how you did it, and what pitfalls you encountered. Also, if anyone has used Century Jets retracts have they figured out how much modification is needed to fully retract the gear (I'm having doors). I suspected (and confirmed on Page 1 of this thread) that as designed, the retracts do not allow the use of doors (Because my P-47 was the same, but I didn't have the foresight then to modify it).

All the best, and Happy New Year from Scotland,

Jamie
Old 12-29-2005, 05:32 AM
  #302  
jamie_duff
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Another one -

I've read lots on this thread about whether to use a single aileron servo or a pair. In addition, I've read lots on using a single or a pair of mini servos for flaps.

I've used the single aileron servo setup on the P-47 which I've been flying for about 18 months or so. I'd respectfully suggest that provided it's all assembled correctly there is no reason for it to fail in flight. The only slop will arise from the bellcranks if they are not installed properly and they are able to move in more than one plane. Providing they are secure on their mounting plates they transmit the loads perfectly well. As the pushrods are guided through the ribs of the wing, the potential for buckling is minimal.

As for loads on the aileron servo I think it has to be remembered that these are scale models, not aerobatic or pattern models. The ailerons are small compared to the wing area for a model and a single servo has no trouble moving them. If any pilot is aggressive enough with the ailerons for servo power to become an issue, then the overall heavy-handed flying style will destroy the model sooner or later anyway. Fly it smoothly and scale-like, and you'll find one servo more than up to the job.

Conversely, the flaps are large control surfaces which are intended to move a long way. In addition, the are intended to remain in position for long periods of time (ie lower flaps at low cruising speed and keep them there through the approach, landing and roll out. The flaps require a lot of muscle to hold them down at approach speed, never mind on go-around at full throttle, so the flaps need good quality metal geared standard size servos. A single high-torque servo in the centre section could work, but I'd expect mini servos to struggle holding the flaps for long durations. I can just hear that 'wrong' buzzing noise servos make when they're about to cry
Old 12-29-2005, 06:07 AM
  #303  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Further, one might think it is more wise to use one servo in case experiencing a servo failure. If this would happen while having 2 servos then the end is not far away... Differencial flap setting in something everybody should fear.
Old 12-30-2005, 12:48 AM
  #304  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

damned if you do
damned if you don't



i still havn't had time for much progress so no pic from me yet......


jamieduff1981 im using the cj retracts and the same tail gear i havn't hooked them up yet but i have the tail gear set up on a test rig so i can fit it while keeping it as light as poss i've read these things dont like to be tail heavy
Old 12-30-2005, 05:53 AM
  #305  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

i've read these things dont like to be tail heavy
What warbird does???

Nice pics btw! I'm away to have some breakfast then fit the shear webs to my second wing.....hopefully get them joined today. Bought my wing servos yesterday too plus Y-leads. I've gone for a mini servo for each aileron and also for each flap despite what I said earlier. The servos I got yesterday are easily as torquey as the Futaba S148s I normally use except they weight 19g each instead of 49g each.

I'm modifying the flaps to operate off torque rods from the centre section and the aileron linkages will be as discreet as I can possibly make them too.......................



Old 12-30-2005, 07:13 AM
  #306  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

I just ran across this web site http://www.irfmachineworks.com/rds/ It has Aileron and flap drivers. What would ya'll think of these?
Mustang
Old 12-30-2005, 09:02 PM
  #307  
m2
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

hey jamieduff1981
can you take a pic of the back end of the fin so i can see how high the ribs are. I havn't shaped mine fully yet and im unsure how high to make them??
Old 12-31-2005, 10:46 AM
  #308  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Hi M2, I'm not sure I understand you.

Is it the trailing edge of the fin you want to see, or are you looking for a section view of the rudder as these are the only ribs I can think of that needed profiling....

If it is the rudder ribs you mean then mine are almost straight. This would appear to be the case according to my 1/48 scale plastic models and some 1/72 scale plans I have.

Note I haven't added the horn to the rudder yet nor the trim tab or nav light. Similarly on the fin I haven't added the 1/64" ply to the trailing edge for shrouds yet and probably wont until the fin is fitted to the fuselage. Need to go figure out my aileron linkages now I've opted for a near-scale horn setup

Just shout if you still want pics. (Hosting space is limited so I wont post any until I'm sure I'm posting exactly what you're looking for!

Hope my retracts come soon......

What engine are you going for? I'm almost certainly going for either an RCV 91 or 120. My P-47 was built at the top end of the engine range and is drastically over powered. Infact I don't think I've ever used full throttle, so maybe the .91 would do me. On the other hand the 120 will drive a bigger prop.......... (and is 250g heavier!!!) I planning to run my exhaust through the fuselage and out the radiator outlet. Have seen it done but it will means the fuselage stays in kit form until I buy the engine! Also hoping to move the fuselage servos fwd to clear the cockpit area - just in case.
Old 01-01-2006, 06:30 AM
  #309  
jamie_duff
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Slow progress.

I have no idea how Competition winning builders do their stuff. I wish I was even close to their league





And so I continue.............
Old 01-02-2006, 02:53 PM
  #310  
bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Hey guys, I've been reading this post for the past few days and have gained a wealth of knowledge from it. I thank you all fort that! I have a TF P-51 kit on its way to me as I type. I'm hoping to start building next week. This is going to be my second kit build (the first was Tower's Fun 51, last year) and I'm quite nervous, especially after all of the sanding stories. Please keep this post going. I'm especially interested in the different types of retracts used in this kit. Retracts are new to me and I've been doing a lot of research and haven't gained a whole lot of info. Thanks again for all the info posted.
Old 01-02-2006, 03:42 PM
  #311  
jamie_duff
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Hi Bull51, don't worry, I intend to keep the thread going even if no-one else does

I find posting pics up here helps keep me motivated. Not that it's not a great fun model to build!!! In fact TF kits are a pleasure to build

Keep checking in, and keep us in the picture with your build. I'm hoping my retracts arrive soon, and when they do I can progress my wing so I'll post up pics of how I'm doing things so long as people are still interested.

When your own kit arrives, please, please, please heed all the advice written so far and spend a day reading through the Instruction manual and studying the plans before you even think about pushing parts out of their sheets

There's some good pics on this thread which will help you visualize things if you're struggling to interpret the drawings.

I doubt you'll have any trouble if you build to the plans though, they're beautifully engineered kits.

The only thing I'd disagree with so far is joining skins with thin CA. I'm sure there are plenty people who have done this successfully - unfortunately I'm not one of them....

I did it on my P-47 and what I found was that the CA penetrated right through the wood and stuck to the building surface in some places. Not a huge problem, but it does leave hard spots on the skin that are difficult to sand. On this model I've just taken the hit and used carpenter's glue to join the skins. Takes a little longer but I find the quality easier to control that way.
Old 01-02-2006, 05:01 PM
  #312  
bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

jamieduff1981,

Thanks for the advice. I have already read the instruction manual at least 3x on line, but will do it again before I build. Why not use epoxy to glue the skins? Is weight the concern? My Fun 51 used nothing but epoxy, but its a really light plane (profile that is) with a .46 on it. CA seems too quick and final for me, but TF obviously knows more about this stuff than I do.
Old 01-02-2006, 05:38 PM
  #313  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

No reason why not?? I find epoxy a pain to work with (you know...mixing, stringy mess etc ) whereas alaphatic resins(sp?) (carpenters glue) is water soluable so can be wiped away leaving a clean job at the end of it all.

If you've read the manual already then give it a once over again, but with the plans. It's not a difficult build by any means, but as always, planning and thinking ahead will make life much easier.
Old 01-02-2006, 10:00 PM
  #314  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

I'm really glad to see this thread here. I built this bad boy back in 1995. I started construction in mid June and finished it in November, just before Thanksgiving that year. This was one of the most fun builds I have ever done. It was a lot of work, but very satisfying. I'm glad to hear that my experiences match those listed here: the gear mounts are too weak, the tail wheel mount needs enhancement, 2 cycle engines are too light for this plane, etc. The other things I remember are the sanding, doing the checkerboard up front with paint masking and monokote, mounting the CJM retracts and installing custom functional bomb drops/drop tanks.

Here's what I built:
The TF .60 sized kit
SuperTiger 90
Futaba Radio
1 aileron servo with bellcranks
2 flap servos (standard sized)
2 micro servos on the bomb drops
standard servos for elevator, throttle and rudder
CJM Retracts
Monokote covering

I still have the 4" TF white spinner as well as the display prop and spinner.

What happened to this plane? I killed it on the first flight. The G90 went rich in the air on me and she cut out. A stall and snap ensued and I never recovered. She was totaled. I still have the wing and airframe. They were not repairable, but all the parts are still fine.

I am going to rebuild this baby. I have the kit. I bought it about a month after I put 'er in, but I have not had the time to do it since. I think that's about to change. I need a good build after doing a bunch of ARFs.

Here's what I will likely change:
I'm thinking either a YS 1.10 or an OS 1.20. I'm heavily leaning toward the YS.
I will likely put in two aileron servos
I will still add flaps and do the bomb drop modification
I may glass it

If I can get access to a scanner, I'll post a pic of the model before it's demise, along with a pic or two of the current full-scale "Big Beautiful Doll" I got to see at an airshow at Andrews Air Force Base. Like I said, I still have the plane and will be canibalizing it for parts.

I'll post some pics when I get them.

Thanks for sharing everyone.
Old 01-02-2006, 10:18 PM
  #315  
bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

RCMustang,

Sorry to hear about the crash. I whish that on no one.

I have a couple of questions for you,

(1) I hear a lot of negative things about the CJM retracts, the need for JB weld to keep wheels fron toeing out and too weak, to name a couple. Whats your opinion?

(2) Do you know the power output of the YS 1.10? I've searched Ys and Tower. Niether give a H.P. rating.



jamieduff1981,

Why yes, you make a very valid point. I guess it's been so long since my last build that I had forgotten all of that stringy mess and measuring/mixing.
Old 01-02-2006, 11:09 PM
  #316  
RCMustang
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

(1) I hear a lot of negative things about the CJM retracts, the need for JB weld to keep wheels fron toeing out and too weak, to name a couple. Whats your opinion?

(2) Do you know the power output of the YS 1.10? I've searched Ys and Tower. Niether give a H.P. rating.
(1) My CJM retracts were very solid. My major complaint with them were that they were too stiff causing too much stress to be transferred to the wings. I did have a machinist friend of mine do a minor mod to the axles to help them hold on a bit tighter. I only had to use locktite to lock the axles on. Remember, I never had a landing with them. I only did a few taxi tests and they held up well.

(2) I have no idea the power of the YS 1.10. I only know that the serious pattern and aerobatic pilots in my club swear by them. Some of these guys compete at a fairly high level. I trust their opinion. They claim the YS are reliable, light, and powerful. I would bet a YS 1.10 is at least as powerful as the OS 1.20 and certainly more powerful than the Saito 100.

No problem with the crash. I build them so I can fly them. Yes, I was disappointed, but the experience was worth the ride.
Old 01-03-2006, 06:10 AM
  #317  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

No-one tries the RCV 120 in this model yet? Sounds like I'm going to be the first on this thread!
Old 01-03-2006, 06:44 AM
  #318  
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

I've taken a good look at the RCV motors too. They are high torque and very good for a warbird. The one thing I know is that they tend to be light and you need to reinforce the firewall. If you go that route, please do share. I'd love to hear what you find. Having a big prop is not a problem on the P-51. It would be nice to have something like a 15" + up front.
Old 01-05-2006, 12:19 AM
  #319  
bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH[>:]

I've been searching all over for a cockpit for this thing and have come up empty. Anyone have a simple solution to a cockpit?
Old 01-05-2006, 02:26 PM
  #320  
jamie_duff
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

I'm still thinking about that. If a cockpit is going in then the servos need to move. I need to make a new servo tray anyway as I'm no-way using a standard size servo to move a throttle fwd and back. I'd intended to move the servos forward anyway so that leaves me space for a cockpit. I know the P-51 cockpit fairly well so could scratch build if neccessary, but I'll keep looking for some type of kit. The lack of a vac formed plastic kit from TF is no great loss. I bought one for the T-Bolt and it was pretty crap to be honest. If you think of something before me, let me know!

At the moment I'm focusing my attention on the gear door sequencer. Trying to decide which brand to go for. May just go Century Jet as my retracts are CJM anyway. As it happens they arrive tomorrow, or so UPS have told me............ I have lots of import duty and tax to pay though [>:]
Old 01-05-2006, 07:00 PM
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bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Can you provide a link to the sequencer. I have no experience with retracts yet so I'm going in blind. I think I'm gonna go with Robart 550rs. They look like they should fit fine. As for the cockpit, I noticed several on on other threads in RCuniverse, in the TF 1/7 P-51, but dont know where the got them. If I find something I will be sure to post it here.
Old 01-06-2006, 12:31 PM
  #322  
Mustang1964
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

bull51
Take a look here http://www.up-1.com/products.html
Mustang
Old 01-06-2006, 01:46 PM
  #323  
bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Mustang,

Thanks for the link

bull
Old 01-06-2006, 02:04 PM
  #324  
bull51
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Mustang,

WOW, thats some impressive stuff.

Now that you've solved that issue for me, any suggestions on a cockpit for the TF 1/7 P-51?
I don't think I'd be very good at scratch building one.

Thanks again for the link!
Old 01-06-2006, 02:23 PM
  #325  
jamie_duff
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Default RE: Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build

Century Jets carry electronic sequencers too, as do these people:

[link]http://www.gccustomelectronics.ca/gdc1.html[/link]

Haven't really given the cockpit too much thought yet. I'll probably just scratch build it as most kits on the market seem to be pretty naff quality vac formed stuff.

I'm got Robart retracts in my T-Bolt and they work fine. The CJM units appear to be better value though and they're made specifically for his kit, hence why I chose them. The retraction angles, oleo legs etc are so much better.

Must stress Bull51, that the difference of wheel location between wire u/c legs and proper oleos is large. Using wire gear such as Robart supply as standard wont get your wheels even close to the scale locations so the inner doors aren't worth bothering with. This is the case with my T-Bolt which I really regret now. It's going to be stripped down and repainted so I may swap the struts then and reskin the wing with closer-to-scale wheel locations. Unfortunately the TF P-47 has the main spar run right through the scale wheel well so is never going to be correct.

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