zope_pope

The recurring topic. haha. Sanding. Man, I've got to get working on my wing again. its been weeks.

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Bad news guys! My P-51 bit the dust today. Everything was going great and flying perfect, I did my last low pass fly by for the day when my flying bud yelled do one of those victory rolls. I did one and I think I induced a high speed stall and way to low to the ground to recover. I did this once already with this plane but I was very high and was able to correct it before a crash (nearly messed my pants though) Well she it the ground hard and fast, I think the radio is okay and the engine has some slight damage but I think can be used again. This happened at the end of the day and I had to go to work so I have not inspected the wreakage just yet. This stuff happens in this game so looks like I might have to get a winter project going. I have always wanted a Corsair, I might have to build one of those next. The plane only had about 25 flights on it, my friend tried to make me feel better saying well most people flying those things crash them on the first flight . I guess that is true I did have some fun with the plane, but man I hate to see a nice warbird crash it is much different than an old sport plane going in. I had a lot of man hours into that thing, lots of them on the clock at work. I fly my builds though no hangar queens for me, crashing is just part of it sometimes. This thread has been fun and I plan to hang around here and watch your projects and here about how your flights go. Goodluck to all of you with your P-51. Keep this thread going it will help out everyone building one of these planes. I will build another one sometime in the near future.
Later,
Brad

p39

My Feedback: (5)

Wow. Brad. sorry about the P-51.... It always hurts after the time spent building and time spent enjoying it in the air.

Intermidiot... I noticed on your "wish list" you had micro servos with metal gears.... where are you planning on using them in your plane? I've found that even the metal gear servos with the appropriate torque may fail because they don't have the "beefyness" in the gear train. At least that's what I've found out in some .40 size combat planes. Since they've failed in those planes I've gone to regular old standard servos and have not had a problem.

Rick

intermidiot

Hello there,

I am going to use those servos in my flaps. I was directed to them from an article I read in a magazine on the P51D and what to use for flap servos. If you have another suggestion please throw up a link on tower Hobbies site and I will take a look. Good suggestions can mean the difference between staying in the air or not. So your recommendation is truly appreciated. I am currently using these for my elevators, rudder and ailerons:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGLN3&P=ML

Intermidiot stand in silence and holds his head down................... No one likes to see or hear a project of this size end. I am sorry to hear about the loss. You contributions to this thread are important. I hope you frequent this thread in the future and continue to do so. Hoorah....

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

I didn't even know you could see my wish list LOL Feel free to purchase me anything you like I think you are speaking of the Hitec 555s and I curently use them in a very fast Sig Wonder, and I recently purchased one of the new Cap 580 foam flat out from Tower. They reqire micro servos and that was the cheapest flight pack I could locate. I plan to do some flying close to the house and I wanted to do some 3d flying with a foamy. I am not real satisfied, after being used to a quality balsa kit those foam things seem like a pile of junk. I have heard they are fun to fly so I hope my satisfaction level increases after I begin to fly it. I will try to take pictures of my mess of a crash and post tomorrow, the damage is quit extensive. Believe it or not the crash didn't shake me to bad, I like building as much as flying and this just gives me reason to build something new. The Corsair has my interest, the P-51 is one sexy plane but I just love the Corsair for some reason (and i never have owned one). Those foamy planes build weird, you can throw out anything you know about building on one of these things. Now I need some overtime to help pay for some of this stuff [], maybe if I walk around the house with my lip hung low the wife will say oh just go ahead and get it. To bad I had to born pretty instead of rich.
Later,
Brad

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Sorry P-39 I thought you were looking at my list LOL ,,,, I was totally mixed up there.
Brad

zope_pope

Hey Brad,
Sorry to hear that. Stick around though, its been nice talking to you. Expect my plane to be done in a few months, I am one of the slower builders out there. I have just so much on my plate right now with starting my own business while working a full time job as well. I know it hurts to talk about a crash, but can you explain the high speed stall (Accelerated stall) so that we may be able to avoid such a condition? Thanks bud.
Adam

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Zope,
I will tell you what I know and have seen in high speed stalls. I have owned only two airplanes that would do it and both were P-51s. Most of the time it occurs because of to much elevator throw, somehow during high speed the up action of the elevator causes the wing to lose lift throwing the aircraft into a violent maneuver. You will mess your pants when this happens, if you are easy on the controls and do not ask your plane to be a 3d performer you may never see it happen. Be careful on the amount of throw you put on the elevator I have been told that it is the main culprit. Fast high performing planes are more likely to have this happen so if this is your first high performer be careful. I am not sure why my P-51 was doing this so bad, perhaps my wing build was slightly off I am not sure. It happened to me once at a very high altitude with my wife filming it, after that I flew usually on low rates on the elevator. This is what happened today, entered from my left on a low very high speed pass blasted down the runway at about 10 feet high, then gave some elevator to start gaining some height and at about 50 feet up I entered the plane into a roll. This is when the wheels came off, I am guessing that with the angle up and the speed combo with ailerons thrown in caused this to happen. The plane whipped around violently and entered a spin probably 30 feet high and going straight in. I didn't have time to recover and the plane hit very hard. One of the worst crashes I have ever seen. I am going to try to post pics tomorrow. I wish I could explain the high speed stall in a more professional manner but we probably need a aero engineer to do that. RCU may have some info on it somewhere. I was flying my plane hard and fast maybe a little overconfident in my flying abilities, with the time spent on this plane maybe I should have been more conservative but I am all about having fun with this hobby and flying in circles gets old after awhile. Actually that was the first roll I had done that low to the ground should have just finished with a low pass LOL. I am at work and bored I may see if I can get more information on this from RCU.
Later,
Brad

Rate1

Sounds to what I read that your plane snapped on you. Perhaps it was caused by a warped wing? Regardless sorry for your loss. take this experience and I say build another P-51 thats even better then the first one. [>:]

Chris.

m2

yeah that stinks but your m8s right at least you some air time from it!

this is what I’m heading towards in my covering (If i get there haha), (don’t quote me on the inv stripes if that’s the right pattern or not I’ve just coloured it-no thought)

not sure on the checkered tail might look better w/o, i wont be going with any numbering, black or chrome spinner? prob will stick with the chrome finish (less works to keep repainting) it'll also match the rest of the plane which that horrid gray is meant to represent a chrome finish
might checker the wing tips aswell???

you guys got any ideas on your finish yet!

p39

My Feedback: (5)

The warbirds are different from sport planes as far as elevator throw goes. With their scale like lines, they'll act alot like the full scale ones. Plus they've got higher wing loading. Definitely start with the recommended throws. What I'll do is take a plane up high... fly straight and level and pull full up. If it snaps out, I've got too much elevator throw. Dial 'er down until it doesn't do that. Once a plane snaps and starts the dreaded spiral down, we have a tendancy to pull elevator to keep it from "going down." When in some of those attitudes all it does is keep stalling the plane. These need to be flown differently than a trainer, kaos, edge, cap or what have you. They are heavier and do really weird things if you're not careful. Too much elevator can start alot of problems which may not be recoverable.

But-- they sure are pretty in the air. And there is nothing that gets the blood pumping more than a low pass followed with that victory roll....

m2

does this pleane recover well from spins for a RCwarbird at altitude or is it a fight to get control back?

p39

My Feedback: (5)

She'll recover with altitude. Keep off the elevator. Low throttle... opposite rudder and get the nose down. When she stops spinning.. add power and fly out- providing you did have enough altitude. The toughest part when she's coming down is to stay off the up elevator and point the nose down. And when she does stop spinning to stay off too much elevator so you don't introduce another stall/spin. That's why it's important to not have too much elevator. When I used to panic I'm sure I always had all the elevator I could into it without actually bending the stick.

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

You are so right P-39, your explanaton is spot on. I was just to low, and did panic and add all the elevator I could in the one second of time that I had. When this happened to me the first time with altitude I should have done what you said and took some of the throw off. I thought leaving it on low rate took care of it but it didn't. I have always been told that educations are expensive I just worked off midnights and woke up, I plan to take on the wreckage in just a few min.
Later,
Brad

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Just for fun
Brad

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

You can see the engine damage where the screw goes thru for the muffler, this is not threaded and is just a pass thru so I think it will be okay to use on a lesser plane. I better get to finishing this project next. You might like this one P-39.
Brad

p39

My Feedback: (5)

Oucha. Looks like you've got enough parts to make a Mustang and a half. Ahhhh.. the P-39. That was the first stand off scale plane I built way back in the late 70's. TF old Yellow Box. In the past years I've managed to snag 6 of the original kits. Why? Ah. Um-- they were available. And there's this thing called the internet which makes it easy to find and buy. I've got almost all of the original Red/Yellow Box TF kits in boxes. I've got one of their gold edition P-39's flying. (and two more kits and retracts in the wings.) One will have Portugest markings. That was a rare find in doing research. Now, that's an airplane..... Retracts are a bit tough to fit in the nose.. oh, and there's that muffler hanging out front. But in the air she's a beaut. It's got a nice presence on the ground too with that long nose gear and when it turns it's really pretty....

This is my DCM P-39. G62. 84" span. I'm holding her.

zope_pope

Hey brad,
Sounds like an accelerated stall. P39 explained it pretty well and it happens in full scale flying plenty. It gets pilots killed quite a bit. Fortunately in your situation the pilot walked away unscathed. :P As we all know stalls are when the critical angle of attack is exceeded. This happens at both slow speeds and high speeds. At slow speeds the relative wind (opposite of the flight path) and the wing form an angle that exceeds the critical aoa and causes the stall. a simple explaination would be you are keeping your airplane wing straight and level, but the relative wind won't allow the wing to produce any lift because it is not flowing over the wing (the angle is too great). Sorry if that confused you. But the same thing happens when flying high speed. If you kick the elevator too much, the intertia of the airplane wants it to keep moving forward, but you just tilted the nose 30 degrees up (exageration). This causes a stall because the critical aoa is exceeded. Now that is the first time i have tried to explain it without pictures. SOrry if I lost any of you.

My guess is we entered an accelerated stall and the left turning tendencies of the engine caused the snap over. Did it snap left or right? Just curious. But thanks for the story, i will take it easy on the elevator. Also where was the cg aft or fore? It looks repairable if you ask me. She sure was pretty.

Hope I didnt bore you too much with aerodynamics. I find rc and full scale flying teach me a lot about eachother. Just had to share.

Adam

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Wow that is a beautiful P-39, that engine looks huge on there. Did you fiberglass and paint that. I am in the process of fiberglassing my P-39 wing, I have about went crazy because the wing sheeting is so thin that I punch holes in it everytime I touch it. The plane that I just crashed was my first fiberglassing job, if you look close the wing is fiberglassed and painted with Lustecote and the fuse was covered. I tried the water based polyurethane with sub par results, didn't feel the weave like I wanted. Turned out okay after much primming, sanding and painting. I ordered some bulk epoxy resin for the P-39, I really need a tougher turtle shell on that sheeting. The P-51 was a much easier build than the P-39, I found myself wondering if I was doing things the right way on the 39, how did you feel about the TF 39 build. The flaps really were tough and I am having trouble getting mine to close up all the way. I did like the way the wing ribs fit into the spar that was clever idea. I have been side tracked on the 39 and it has been a ongoing project just laying around for a very long time. All that I like is sheetin the bottom of the fuse, putting the engine in and finishing the plane with fiber and paint. I need a warbird now so it is time to finish that sucker. Looking at yours has me pumped about it to!
Zope I think the plane snapped left but I really cant say for sure, you covered it well though and if it saves just one of you guys from making my mistake it was worth the effort to talk about it on here. Took me about 3 hours today but the plane is now stripped down and I believe it is all okay minis the plane itself. Slight damage to the engine and muffler but they can be used.
Later,
Brad

p39

My Feedback: (5)

The DCM P-39 in the shot is a fiberglass fuselage. The wings are foam, sheeted with balsa and then glassed (.75 oz cloth). I use West Systems epoxy thinned with alcohol. One coat to adhere the cloth. Let it dry overnight . No sanding... Then I use a lightweight polyester filler -Evercoat- to fill the weave. Sands easily after about 20 minute set-up time. I basically squeegee that on with an old credit card or something similar.

That DCM P-39 and my TF P-51 and TF P-39 are painted with latex paint. Then coated with Nelson Flat Clear to fuel proof it from the glow fuel..

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

What do you use to get the latex paint down like that, I thought about getting a auto gun at Sears? Fill us in, I think finishing a plane is the hardest part times 10.
Brad

p39

My Feedback: (5)

I use a $19 smaller top feed gun I got from Harbor Freight. 30psi. Thin it with Windshield washer fluid and a product called Flotrol which I got at a local hardware store. It helps the paint flow out smooth.

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Hey guys, I happened to have a TF fuse left over from my years of building so I did the right thing and sneaked it into work tonight sshhh dont tell. I started putting the fuse pieces and doublers in tonight so I am back in the game. I will either buy the wing kit or an entire kit later on. About half of my first one was built here at work as well not to mention two Sig Wonders, two GP Dazzlers and an Uproar and part of a Ace Bingo. Id like to go with a large four stroke on this one but we will see, those dudes are pricey. I also am thinking of side mounting and using a bisson muffler this time. The last time my G90 was inverted and I was not crazy about that set up. Not allowed to have a camara here so showing pics wont happen. I noticed you guys are not posting here, I hope that means there is some building going on![:-]
Later,
Brad

intermidiot

Heh, You go Brad,

If you look at my wish list you will see the bisson muffler that they told me I should use for an inverted
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=BISG4093&P=K

installation of the
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=OSMG0591&P=K

I have been a little busy Carving my pumpkin. It really did not take that long and I wish you guys could see it all lit up, It is freaking awesome! So here is a shot of it kinda lit.

p39

My Feedback: (5)

OK- that pumpkin sacres me... and you misspelled Vikings. (Although I wouldn't claim many of then this year.)