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CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Old 05-22-2005, 01:07 PM
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Oly
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Default CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

I am going to build one of these two biplanes, but I just can't decide which one. Please help me out and offer advice/information if you have experience with these airplanes. I like to fly aerobatics, but not I'm not experienced with 3-D. I also want to put a powerful 4 stroke in the plane, but keep the weight down for maximum thrust to weight. (Don't we all!) Conclusions I've drawn so far:

1. The Carl Goldberg Ultimate seems to build lighter than the Great Planes Super Skybolt yet they are both rated for the same engine range.
2. The fuel tank seems easier to get at for maintenance in the Ultimate than it is in the Skybolt.
3. The landing gear on the Skybolt seems more robust than the Ultimate. (Important for my somewhat less than graceful landings!)

Questions:
1. Does the Ultimate fly better than the Skybolt in terms of aerobatics or are they the same?
2. Which 4 stroke will give the best power to weight? How big of an engine could I go with and still keep the wing loading reasonable?
(1.2, 1.5 ???) Prop clearance will be an issue if I "supersize" the engine.

Thanks for any input you all care to give!
Old 05-22-2005, 01:39 PM
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tarvma02
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

No debate here. You want to build the Goldberg Ultimate! It's easy to build, looks great, and flies amazing. You want to have 2 aileron servos, fiberglass cowl, pants, and aluminum gear from Stan's Fibertech. I've never built the GP Skybolt but I have seen it in the bones and flown one. It's got a balsa wood fuse that looks like a real PITA to build. It also appears heavy and slightly smallish compared to the Ultimate. But, more importantly, I don't think it looks as good (my opinion) and it certainly doesn't fly as well as an Ultimate (fact!) The skybolt has a small tail and an unswept bottom wing...it's really not an "unlimited" aerobatic machine. It has funky yaw-pitch coupling that makes knife-edge flight, etc. a pain. Likewise, the ailerons are a little small for my tastes.

As far as your other issues...I've owned at least 100 airplanes over the last 15 years and I've never once had to take out a properly installed fuel tank mid life so this is really a non-issue.

I've had both the wire gear and the aluminum gear on the Ultimate...if it's light, the wire gear is strong and bend-resistant other it has a slight fore and aft shimmy. The aluminum gear (1/8 inch) is a little weak but certainly looks nicer. Maybe someone out there makes a slightly thicker gear.

Prop clearance is a non-issue on the Ultimate. A YS 1.20 or 1.40 is the way to go...totally unlimited performance.

Have fun with this plane...it's great.

Mike
Old 05-22-2005, 06:52 PM
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Oly
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Thanks for the input, Mike. I had a feeling the Ultimate is a better performer. You don't think the YS 140 would be too big?
Old 05-22-2005, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

1.40 too heavy, use the 1.10, it is supposed to be all you need in this plane. I am in the process of building one now, using the 1.10 mounted on a Gator soft-n-safe mount, aluminum gear, fiberglass cowl & pants.

Pilgrim
Old 05-22-2005, 11:36 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Ultimate needs a few changes. Stock undercarriage wire is too soft. I made up a carbon fibre undercarriage. Reinforce the light ply on fuse top where cabane mounts (1/16" ply doubler worked well.. Invest in after market cowl. Spend some time making a good elevator split drive system, mine tended to screw out of loops a little.

I had an OS .90Fx in mine, thoroughly delightful plane. Don't still a heavy engine in it, it will ruin the glide qualitities.

Steve
Old 05-23-2005, 01:18 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Ditto on the Ultimate! Mine was a very nice flier in a .91 4C... The new owner flew it with a 1.20 2C and it was a rocket! The YS 1.10 sounds like the -- wait for it -- Ultimate [:@] engine for this plane! Sorry -- I couldn't resist...
Old 05-23-2005, 08:55 PM
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Sport Flyer
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

I just got my Ultimate back in the air after a two year absence...I had thumped it in and it took me a bit to get around to the repairs. What a sweet sweet airplane. I didn't realize how much I missed it till I flew it again.
Old 05-26-2005, 11:52 AM
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tarvma02
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

I've had 3 Ultimates with YS 1.20s and 1 with the YS 1.40. The 1.20 versions were Unlimited and the 1.40 version was very unlimited. With the stock servo set-up (except 2 in the wing), you'll need about an ounce of tail weight with the 1.40. I've never flown one with the 1.10 but I've seen the .91 air chamber fly and it was under-powered in my opinion. If you can find an older YS 1.20, that's probably the way to go but the 1.40 is definitely not going to rip the plane apart.

A few modifications:

1) cowl, pants and gear aftermarket
2) reinforce the gear mount with triangle stock
3) as someone else said, 1/16 ply on the cabane mount (make sure you put it on the bottom side to avoid jacking up the cabanes)
4) chop off the 1/64th ply at the read turtledeck former and carve balsa blocks (otherwise, you get this goofy looking flat look of the turtledeck right above the horizontal stab.
5) box-in the ailerons about an inch inward (looks nicer)
6) use 6 inch wide balsa on the tail surfaces to avoid an unsightly seem
7) taper the rudder and elevator to a nice air-foil shape
8) taper the rear of the interplane struts to a nice airfoil shape
9) use Robart hinge points (countersink them for flush)
10) extend center wing sheeting 1 wing bay
11) don't glass the center-section (it's a one piece wing). I've points the airplane straight down at full throttle and jammed the sticks in the corner until the plane blurred into an inverted flat spin and nothing has every broken (at least 50 times)
12) ditch the stock motor mounts for something made of metal.

Have fun...this is making me want to build another one.

Mike
Old 05-30-2005, 09:16 PM
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Oly
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Thanks for the input everyone! I'm going with the Ultimate. I've been checking out the manual and it seems like a lot of building (read: fun!). Great tips, especially the engine size recommendations and flying characteristics. I've bookmarked this thread, and when I get ready to build this winter would you guys mind if I contact you for more advice?

If you have any more tips, I'm all ears.

Oly
Old 08-18-2005, 02:06 PM
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CJKling
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Would a saito 1.50 be too much? I'm between the 1.50 and the 1.20, the 1.50 is only 2 oz more. I just got my ultimate from tower and will definitely be bookmarking this post, thanks for all the great tips.
Old 08-18-2005, 03:57 PM
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MinnFlyer
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

I used to fly one with a 160 Twin Cylinder, and it was too much. Not too much in the way of power, but there was so much torque that if you were flying slow (like a landing approach) and needed to boost the throttle, you had to be very careful that the torque didn't make you snap.
Old 08-18-2005, 08:10 PM
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CJKling
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Could you correct this worry with prop selection? Talking to guys at my club, they said go with the 1.50 rather than the 1.20, one guy even considered a 1.80.
Old 08-18-2005, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Compared to most bipe kits out there, the Goldberg Ultimate is a very easy build. I'm doing a GP Super Aeromaster right now; THAT's work. And I agree with the consensus; the Ultimate is hands-down the BEST-flying bipe out there. Mine's been hanging up for a while, sans engine and servos.

A YS 1.40 is over-kill, unless you demand being able to pull out of a hover at Warp 9, etc. For normal flying, a 1.20 four stroke is plenty. My first one had an OS 1.20; the current one used my Laser 150. Both were excellent. I agree that a 91 four stroke is a bit light. I know of one flying with an OS 91 Surpass that does okay; but the builder is a pro who went to great pains to lighten the structure. Anything over ten pounds is too heavy for this model, regardless of what engine used. My current one is a tad over nine pounds, and lands like a trainer.

Enjoy; this is a classic. I will definitely build another one before its all over...
Old 08-18-2005, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Hard landing with stock gear and a 110 Tigre shark!
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Old 08-18-2005, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

I'm not big on the looks of the ultimate. I prefer the Skybolt.
Old 08-19-2005, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Then you might be interested in my kit FS in the MarketPlace...
Old 08-19-2005, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

RC Hawk, did you modify your's or something? Looks different, I guess just no spinner and the bottom wing. Nice plane.
Old 08-19-2005, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Man, as far as looks go, I don't think there are ANY bipes out there that look as sleek and sexy as the Skybolt. Ultimates are cool, but look like a buck toothed brother next to the Skybolt.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Just build both of them, both are great airframes. Loads of fun to fly.
Old 08-19-2005, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

That's a sweet looking skybolt. It depends on the builder's preference, sharp features, hard lines, and a wide front end are given to the ultimate while the skybolt is rounded off more, almost "easier to look at" if that makes any sense at all.

Have there been problems with engine torque at low speeds with guys flying ultimates, especially on larger engines? I'm thinking of the saito 1.50 and good throttle management, "you can always throttle back" comes to mind, but you can't eliminate torque.
Old 08-22-2005, 01:06 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

IMO, the Ultimate is the ugliest biplane flying with it's squared off wings. I know it is a great performer but I think the Super Skybolt is much more beautiful.

I am refinishing my second Super Skybolt that has been sititing in my garage for about 9 years. I peeled the Monokote off the fuse and fiberglassed it. I just finished the basecoat of paint this evening. Tomorrow I'll start with the trim.

I originally flew this one and my first one with the Saito 1.50. It was a perfect combination. I had to add two bolts to the tail to make it balance but it flew GREAT! I'm putting an ASP 1.08 in it this time. I've never had any experience with an ASP engine,,,wish me luck. I'm hoping to test fly it this weekend!

Jay Mc

[link=http://www.Utahwest.com/rc]UtahWest.com[/link]
Old 08-23-2005, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

CJ
The hard landing did not help the wings a bit. And the Tigre shark 110 short shaft will not let you put on a spinner.
Second round dead stick and hit 4" pvc on the fence on landing, really made mods this time[:@] This plane fly's great if I can keep the TS running[:'(][:@]
no pic Pride you no[&o]
Old 08-23-2005, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?


ORIGINAL: Jay McMullan

IMO, the Ultimate is the ugliest biplane flying with it's squared off wings. I know it is a great performer but I think the Super Skybolt is much more beautiful.

I am refinishing my second Super Skybolt that has been sititing in my garage for about 9 years. I peeled the Monokote off the fuse and fiberglassed it. I just finished the basecoat of paint this evening. Tomorrow I'll start with the trim.

I originally flew this one and my first one with the Saito 1.50. It was a perfect combination. I had to add two bolts to the tail to make it balance but it flew GREAT! I'm putting an ASP 1.08 in it this time. I've never had any experience with an ASP engine,,,wish me luck. I'm hoping to test fly it this weekend!

Jay Mc

[link=http://www.Utahwest.com/rc]UtahWest.com[/link]
Jay, what size prop were you swinging with 1.50? I'm only curious because with my 120 and a 15" prop, I only have about 2 inches of ground clearance. Is there taller gear available for this plane?
Old 08-23-2005, 10:00 AM
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Oly
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Thank you everyone for chiming in on these two planes. I wish the Skybolt flew like the Ultimate, and the Ultimate looked as nice as the Skybolt (what is that about cake and eat it too?). I like the OS engines, because I'm familiar with them and have no experience with Saito. Having said that, will the landing gear of the Ultimate accept the larger diameter prop sizes necessary with the Saito 150? One last question, will the Saito 150 run OK with 15% nitro, or does it require higher nitro fuel?

Thanks again for the feed back on this!
Old 08-23-2005, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: CG Ultimate or GP Super Skybolt?

Saito will run fine on 15%(although-it loves 30% heli fuel!). It needs 20% lube, and prefers pure synthetic- not the synthetic/castor blend. With that said, I don't think the synthetic-castor blend will kill it off too soon.

Might I recommend Powrmaster.?.

I can't help you with the gear issue, sorry.

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