onlyb

Does anyone know of a kit that uses real Fowler type flaps?

Al - Aviation Junkie

Nothing I know about an I've seen quite a few kits..

I would think it would be too much of a complicated and heavy mechanism for the average rc plane.

I have seen a pic of a 3m L-13 Blinik(Glider) with fully functional fowler flaps but I think the guy scratch built from his own design..

And the other thing is that there aren't too many real aircraft with fowler flaps out there for people to make models after..

My 2c worth...

The Raven

Recently saw some pics of a scratch built P-38 or F4U in another thread on this site. Interesting, but a huge amount of effort.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know of kits , per se, but Vaillancourt's L-19 has Fowler flaps, and I 've seen an L-5 Stinson, either a Vaillancourt or Ziroli, that has Fowler flaps. Both have the offset hinges and can be built with concealed linkages; the BirdDog's flaps will go to 45 degrees, not sure about the Stinson. On both planes the hinges are built up, and not available as separate hardware.

cheechukranch

Use these (HLRM0174) to convert any appropriate flap to Fowler:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/balllink.htm

apalsson

My Feedback: (1)

The Top-Flite Cessna 182 has Fowler flaps

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

No it doesn't. It has a single slotted flap.

apalsson

My Feedback: (1)

Flyboy,

I don't want to argue with you but this is a snippet from the Top-Flite website:

"Extruded ABS plastic strips are included for the model's control surfaces. This easily simulates the full-scale Cessna 182 Skylane's tell-tale corrugated Fowler flaps, ailerons and elevator."

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

They are wrong then. The full scale 182 has single slotted flaps. Says so right in the manual. Sorry. Can explain all kinds of reasons for them to not be fowler flaps, but I don't have time for that discussion right now. In the real plane, they are single slotted.

There are 4 types, split, plain, slotted and fowler. The cessna series uses slotted. Just the way it is.

Al - Aviation Junkie

Apalsson mate, I think you might have it wrong...

The corrugations on the 182's barndoor flaps are simply for strength. If you take note you will see the same corrugations on the ailerons and the elevators..

Fowler flaps are completely different to hinging flaps.. hinging flaps just kind of flap down and fowlers are where the trailing edge or flap kind of flods out to increase the chord of the wing, and in turn creates more lift...

This pic should explain the concept...

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Thanks AJ. Thats the drawings I was looking for, but I am in the middle of some stuff and haven't had time to dig out yet.

Yup, the fowler flap moves back on a track and increases chord. The cessna flaps roll down and creat a single slot between the wing and the flap. It doesn't increase chord.

Was a question on my Commercial checkride many moons ago.

apalsson

My Feedback: (1)

AJ - I'm aware that the corrugations have nothing to do with Fowler or not.

Flyboy,
I wasn't able to find the statement you refer to in the Cessan manual, however I found this one:

If you aren’t installing operational flaps (the neat
looking, highly effective, simulated Fowler Flaps)
skip the next section and proceed to “Sheet
The Top Of The Wing�. Are you sure you
won’t reconsider?

I suspect we are talking semantics here, I realise the flaps on the Top-Flite Cessna are hinged but they have dropped hinges as to move the flap back when it is exended.

I am building one of those Cessnas at the moment and have gone through the trouble of slightly modofying the rip ends to extend further past the rear spar to more obviously represent the Fowlers.

When you extend the flaps, you have no gap between the flap and the wing (as seen vertically) but the chord is increased by the travel of the flap.

Regards

Ari

(To flap or not to flap ........... )

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Ari, sorry, but your model manual may say fowler flap, but the model manufacturer doesn't know the difference. The full scale Cessna 182 manual calls them single slotted, and the full scale aviation industry calls them single slotted. Not a big deal, just wanted to point out the the creator of the thread that a 182 doesn't have fowler flaps.

Not going to argue it with you because you are using a manual for a model that is incorrect. They stated it that way to sound cool and sell airplanes, but they didn't do the research. go to the airport and grab a 182 manual out of a plane. It will show you what I mean. If you can't find it, I will pull one out of a 172 manual that I have and scan it tomorrow for you. They are the same thing. I just don't have one here right now.

Only reason I even brought it up was there was a huge discussion, argument quite like this one when I was in flight school and many of the instructors that were teaching them as fowler had to change what they were doing becuase students kept getting dinged on it when asked about it on a check ride.

The TF 182 model manual may state it, but that don't make it fact. Its a model.

Al - Aviation Junkie

Sheesh people, havn't you heard of google??

As flyboy said, its a model... It may be a scale model but show me one scale model thats exactly identical to the real plane..

Al - Aviation Junkie ~~~> Continues to search for a kit with proper operating fowler flaps for old 'onlyb'.....

onlyb

I read the manual for the Top Flight Cessna, and it has !QUOT!simulated Fowler Flaps.!QUOT! I think they were trying to create the feel of the Fowler's, but looking at the plans it's hinged

onlyb

All flaps change the cord line of the wing, not increase it. Fowler's actually increase the area of the wing, as well as change the cord line. I'm a flight engineer on P-3 Orions and they definitely have Fowler's. The flaps move aft first, then deflect down. My goal, is someday to build a scale P-3. I figure I'll have to scratch build it, but I'm looking to build existing models with different items that I'll need to build the P-3, such as; Retracts, Fowler Flaps, multi-engine, etc. The only thing I haven't been able to find yet is a kit with Fowler's. Thank's for all the input.

grinder-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Palmer plans C-130 132"ws has the fowler flaps.

Grinder.

mcarleno

If your interested, Robart makes Fowler Flap hinges, though a little pricy. I suppose you could manufacture your own.

Here is the link: http://www.robart.com/Hinge.aspx

50+AirYears

Flying Models or Model Airplane News magazine Plans Service lists a set of plans for a Fowler Flap arrangement as an enhancement for one of their Airplane plans. There have also been many published ideas to reproduce the action of real Fowler Flaps. A fixed, pinned hinge does not provide a true Fowler Flap, and that includes the hinge set-up sold by Hobby Lobby.
To get an idea of the operation of a Fowler flap, just on your next ride on an airliner, get a seat just behind the wing TE. On some of the planes, you can even see one of the slotted curved tracks the flap rides in to allow it to move out past the line of the TE before it even starts to lower. Take a peek at the Robart part #345 on post 18. They show a set in various stages of deployment.
Probably the only Cessnas I can think of that would use the Fowler flap would be the 1900 used in some commuter and short haul airlines and the Citation. If there are others, I wouldn't be surprised, but seems to me the weight and complexity of the system would keep them out of any small aircraft except for special applications, like STOL.
Anyway, like the Top Flite manual points out, "Simulated" Fowler flaps. Not real Fowlers.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

The 1900 is a beachcraft

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

For those that think the Top flight RC 182 manual is the end all on its flaps, heres the page from the real 182 manual. Says nothing about fowler flaps anywhere. TF didn't do their research.

50+AirYears

I stand corrected on the 1900. Main thing I remember being almost in the back seat and noticing a very bad Dutch Roll.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Yea, I don't care for the plane much myself. We had one crash on the runway here one night. Long story, but broke it in half, the security guys were asleep and the pilots had to crawl to the FBO. The security guys got the fire trucks to the plane almost an hour after it hit, and one engine was still turning. The prop was stopped, they are air driven by the engine, not geared like garretts. The engine was so melted in side, noone could figure out how it didn't explode. The shutoffs all got disconnected in the crash. Never flown one, but I hear its better than the 99. I did fly our citation a few times. Nice bird. I have a few hundred hours in our Westind, that just plain rocks! Straight wing bird doing 430 knots at FL410, you gotta love it.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

If by saying "Fowler Flaps" you mean that they must move aft and down, then the flaps on Cessna singles fill the bill. On a full-size 182, they move aft about 8" and add nearly 30 square feet of area to the wing. Close inspection of the full-size aircraft will show that the flaps move on tracks are are not hinged. The MUST move aft in order to deflect downward. Yes, they ARE single-slotted flaps, but they are more than flaps with a hinge line below the wing's lower surface. Piper Cherokees have a single-slotte flap that rotates on an offset hinge, as do many airplanes, but they don't move aft on tracks.

On the Top Flite Cessna 182 Skylane kit, the operative word is "simulated". They don't fully-replicate the prototype's operation.

This link shows how a flap track for Fowler flaps, very similar to the Cessna tracks work in an RC model:

http://homepage.mac.com/mikejames/ne...rc_setups.html

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

http://www.century-of-flight.freeola...%20Devices.htm

Heres a site that describes them all and will explain them if you care to look. There is a difference between fowler and slotted. Yea, the 182 has a small track, but its not a fowler flap.