RVM

Tuwood where are you ordering your mounts and equipment from? Tower Hobby doesn't have any soft mounts that I could find, and neither does Horizon Hobby.

I wish there was one place online to order all products from all manufacturers.

tuwood

I haven't ordered anything yet, I'm waiting to hear back from Futaba before I do anything.

But so far, I've found the Dubro one at Tower & it appears they have it in stock. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD633&P=ML
It looks like the Sullivan one is a little harder to find, so I may have to use the Dubro due to availability.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Man; what a bummer. That was a beautiful model. This thread has caused me to break mine out of mothballs; I'll fly it this week-end. I'm also keeping an eye peeled for a kit. The Empire shows limited stock; I dunno whether to take a chance on Lanier's efforts, or try to find an older one that was kitted when Goldberg was still Goldberg. Gotta patronize Stan's either way...

But I'm definitely going to build another one, and just might plagarize your covering job. That was a relatively simple, yet elegant scheme.

tuwood

Thanks Steve, Fortunately the shortcomings on my Lanier kit were all in the generic materials category so they were easily replaced. All of the laser cut balsa pieces were in good condition. The various ply pieces were in good condition but several weren't cut all the way through, but it just took a little extra X-acto effort to get them out.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

I have two of the original Goldberg kits and they aren't much better. I personally like the laser cut look but I haven't had any problems getting the other ones out of the 'mold'. The quality of wood is not too good though. I've had several pieces break but I doubt if the ARFs are any better IMO.
The down side to the originals is that you have to sand any mated edges before you glue them because the plywood frays.
Also, everyone's having problems with the ailerons being too thin on both kits, Lanier should have fixed that but they didn't. Tim.

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

you could build up the ailerons. my great planes .60 extra 300's ailerons are 1/16" balsa sheeted w/small ribs inside and leading edge about 3/8". not hard to make, saves weight and quite sturdy when everything is laminated. and add a hard plywood mount between the sheets for the control horn.
tuwood, one tip i learned recently, after the covering is finished, soak a q tip in monokote trim solvent and run it along all the edges of the covering. it like welds the seams so they don't loosen up and fray. i just did it first time on a profile i covered last week. you did a great covering scheme on your bipe, nice tip to keep it looking good.
jon b

tuwood

Thanks jb
I read about that somewhere a while back too. I usually just put it on the leading edges & it's worked pretty good on my Somethin' Extra. You do have to be a little careful on the darker colors on white because if you get a little too much it will bleed the darker color

davesteemke

Read through thread, found some great ideas for strengthening my new plane. I've already installed some aluminum landing gear, and strengthened my wingsMy setup is as follows:CG Ultimate 10-300, OS FS-120III, Deluxe Smoke Kit,Futaba CHP 9 CH,Ball-Bearing for Rudder, High Torque for elevators & ailerons. I have two elevator servo's mounted in tail, two aileron servo's in bottom wing, 1 Servo for Pull-Pull Rudder. My question has to do with programming.I 'd like the elevators to move independtly with the ailerons( elevator surface's moving in opposite directions). Could I also use my ailerons as flaps and/or speedbrakes? Or is this overkill?!?
What Channels would I set this up on:

Throttle-
Rudder-
Left Elevator-
Right Elevator-
Right Aileron-
Left Aileron-
Smoke System -
Micro Servo for Light switch-

I also installed some LED Landing Lights, Marker Lights, Strobe Lights with 2 9V Batteries. When should i start to worry about weight becoming a issue?

tuwood

That looks like a pretty good setup. I have never used it, but you can set up your radio with ELE->FLP mixing which will make your aileron's go down when you pull the elevator up. I personally think that would be overkill unless you have a specific trick your trying to do that requires it.

As for weight, the only thing I would say is with the servo's in the tail (approx 3 oz.) you'll have to come up with around 6-8 oz. (guessing) in the nose to offset that weight. I'm going to be experimenting with my next one to try and get the servo's in the tail.
My final overall weight was 9.5 lbs. dry & it took off like a rocketship with the Saito 1.25, so I think you'll be ok.

tuwood

Great news!! I just got off the phone with Futaba & they are replacing/repairing all of my electronic's & shipping me a new kit. I spoke with one of the supervisor's who was very understanding about my crash & even though there was no way to definitively prove what the cause of the crash was he offered me a new kit.
Considering the only thing that was warrantied was the electronic's I'm elated.

So, the total cost of building my new one will be limited to glue, covering & any weight saving upgrades I do.

The kit is back ordered, but I should have it within a week or two.

How is everyone else doing on theirs? I haven't seen anyone posting their progress in a while.

tuwood

I have a couple questions for you guys.

I'm looking to go with some different hinges this time around & am looking at the Robart Steel Pin Hinge Points: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXET55&P=M
Any thoughts, concerns, recommendations?

I also plan to use fiberglass cloth on the wing mid sections versus the nylon tape stuff that comes with the kit. I see that there is 3/4 oz., 2 oz, & 5 oz. fiberglass cloth available & wasn't sure what you guys use. I will also need to do some fiberglass repairs on the cowling which will need some fiberglass.

tychoc

tuwood:

That's great news! I was so sorry to read about you crashing this beautifully built model.

This definetly shows that Futaba takes care of their customers. That's good to know.


-tychoc

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

Tony, I haven't used the Robart yet but they are on some of my planes and I plan to use them on the next Ultimate. Everyone I know that has used them swears by them.

As far as the fiberglass, I've been told the 3/4" is mostly for surfacing and the 2 oz is structural, 5 oz I would guess if you are making a giant scale for structural. I will probably coat mine with the 2 oz and blend it in when I find the right material to blend it with. Someone recommended micro balloons but that's too close to the balsa sheeting for my comfort. I've used micro balloons before and it still takes a good deal of sanding. I think there is some body filler that might work.

The smoke system was a huge success. I'll try to get pictures.

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

very impressive that futaba is helping w/the aircraft, glad to hear it. no matter what type of hinge you use, i find the best thing to do before beveling or hinging is to slide a center finder (great planes has a good one) along the trailing edge of the wing and leading edge of the aileron (stabs/elev, ect), it leaves a thin groove along the center which the slot cutter will follow and a line to bevel to. used the robart hinges a couple of times, easy to use, they have a template that holds the drill centered. because of the length, be sure to plan for this type of hinge and install wood blocks inside the wing and aileron. i prefer dubro nylon pin hinges, i glue in w/ 12 minute epoxy (great planes hinge cutter thick blades) and pin the end hinges w/steel pins. i glue the hinges into the surface first, keeping them straight, inline and square, then glue the surface onto the wing. rub vaseline around the knuckle of the joint. pacer zap makes a hinge glue that works well and is water clean up. 3/4 oz fiberglass cloth is for sheeting a large area (not much strength), 2 oz is for med. strength, 5 oz is for wing center section. i use 6 inch wide, it's best to use finishing resin (i've had good results w/ 30 minute epoxy w/a little denatured alcohol to thin). i brush the epoxy onto the wood first, lay the fiberglass over and squegee it. a recent magazine article he said he uses two layers of 2 oz.

RVM

Futaba really stepped up to the plate on this one. This is great! Now I'm reconsidering my next radio purchase, as I was leaning strongly towards a JR.

Do post the new build in this or a new thread. Could you post a list of things you are going to do to keep weight lower this time around?

davesteemke

Thanks 4 the info tuwood ,
Dave

tuwood

I'm certainly going to make several changes, the following changes are not for weight.
upgrade the power switch to a failsafe one
Dubro motor mount to reduce vibrations
Glass the wing center section. Just an extra precaution
double & glass the interplane strut mounts on each wing. Seems like a weak area
robart hinge points

I have identified the following areas as being "heavy" & I am looking at alternatives:
-LG, the stans LG with GP axles, foam wheels, & stans wheelpants weighs 11 oz. I found a CF set with titanium axles that would cut this weight almost in half.
-4-40 pushrod's for the dual elevators weigh around 3 or 4 oz. My elevator servo's weigh 1.5 oz. each, so I'm hoping that I can put them in the tail & the weight will be offset by the heavier motor mount & the considerably shorter 4-40 pushrods.
-I'm also going to look at all CF pushrods versus 4-40, but that one is up in the air.
-throttle servo. I'm just using a standard S3004 Servo for the throttle & I could replace it with a micro servo & save about 1 oz.
-battery. I'm using a 2000 mah 6V battery & I always have the option to go lighter. I'm not ready to switch to Lipo's yet, but I could easily save 3-4 oz. here if necessary.

I'm certainly open to other weight saving suggestions, but I'm not going to get freaky about it.

I will most certainly post the new build in this thread.

dougwill

tuwood Can you explain the trusty Amex, I have used windex by itself. Great covering job by the way.

Does anybody have another source for canopy? $17 seems high from CarlGoldberg. Great info from all. My build has been going on for 2 years. Man do I have to get this thing finished.


Doug

tuwood

This is where I originally saw how to do it: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=603331
On my first covering job on my Somethin' extra I used windex & a paper towel to squeegy it but it still left some bubbles. The credit card works a lot better.

I'm not sure about the canopy. I've got a slightly damaged one I'll sell cheap.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

What are you guys using to smooth the edges where the turtle deck meets the fuselage?

tuwood

I took a putty knife & spackled some HobbyLite Balsa-Colored Filler across the lip & then sanded it smooth. It covered real nice & I couldn't tell it was there.

RVM

Any particular reason you aren't ready for LiPos yet? I was under the impression that it was the "latest and greatest" in R/C battery technology. This is a genuine question as I really don't know much about it. When I last flew I was using SR NiCds and going through the usual charge/discharge routine to maintain them. I'd love to get away from having to deal with that hassle. NiCds are heavy too.

Have you looked into an Iso-Mount, or maybe a Sullivan Soft Mount? I think those might be a bit lighter than the DuBro. No matter what you do, soft mounts are the way to go. Nothing short of a wreck will kill a model faster than vibration.

The carbon fiber pushrods will save you a lot of weight I think, relatively speaking. Since the 1.25 is so light putting the servos in the tail while using a heavier mount might be a good idea. You'd have to do the math and see how it balances out.

Robart hingepoints are awesome.

tuwood

Two reasons for resisting the Lipo's. First off, I'd have to buy a fancy charger for them but more importantly they would be a bit of a hastle with the Ultimate because I plan to leave it assembled & if I use a lipo I'd have to disasemble it & remove the battery every time I wanted to charge it.
I currently have a 2000mah 6V NiMH that weighs 6 oz. I could replace it with a 1200mah 6V which weighs 4 oz. but for now I don't mind having the extra capacity.

The sullivan was my first choice for the motor mount, but nobody has it in stock & I can't even back order it at Tower. I just called my LHS to see how soon they think they could get one in.
I plan to start this kit as soon as it gets here & if it goes as fast as I'm hoping I'll need the engine mount within 3 or 4 weeks, so I don't want to be stuck waiting 2 months for a motor mount.

My goal is to get the servo's in the tail, but I most certainly will not add any lead to the nose to accomplish it. I'll do like I did before & balance the whole plane prior to building the servo mounts & then I'll slide the servo's around to see what I can get away with.
BTW, I'm looking at the Central Hobbies CF pushrod's with titanium ends. (i forget who recommended those)
I'm also looking at the GraphTech LG & titanium axles. They don't make one for the CG Ultimate but they have a Dave Patrick Ultimate LG that should be close. I'll measure it out tonight. http://www.graphtechrc.com/Secure/images/151.jpg
They also make a CF tailwheel assembly but I can't imagine my Sullivan tailwheel weighs much of anything.

I'm guessing that just the LG & pushrod's will probably save me over half a pound.

If anyone else has any ideas please let me know.

tuwood

My LHS just called me back & said the Sullivan motor mounts have been discontinued so they can't order them.
They had one of the dubro's in stock so I had him throw it on the scale & it weighed 7 oz. with the packaging compared to 5 oz. for the Sullivan. (from their web site)

Well, I think the math is going to work out pretty close. I'm guessing the stock engine mount is only 1 or 2 oz. at most & my pair of servo's in the tail weigh about 3 oz. So with the weight savings of no 4-40 rods in the tail & adding 5 oz. of motor mount weight to the nose I think I will be close to balancing with my 3 oz. of servo's slid back there.

Just think, I have at least 2 more weeks to over analize all of the stuff I'm going to put in the new one. hehe [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

Tony, I have used JTec mounts for years. They are available pre-drilled and tapped for nearly all of the engines we use, both 2C and 4C. However, on my Ultimate I'm using the DuBro mount because it will give a little vibration damping, which I think is necessary for this light weight fuselage structure. Just be sure to leave a "clearance" distance between the back of the engine carburetor and the bolt that attaches the mount to the firewall [&o]. If you don't, you can always countersink the mount and use a "flat head" bolt right there (don't ask). The DuBro also will put the thrust washer appx 3/8" ahead of where the plans show. You can either live with that (actually getting a little nose weight moment out of it), or move the firewall back. Be sure to check the firewall location if you think it could be a problem.

Re your comment on glassing, I used medium weight glass cloth with a little overlap onto each panel at the wing center section, attached with thin CA. I didn't like the 1" strip of tape as a reinforcement. I also (maybe overkill) cut in a vertical 1/8" piece of a/c ply as a carry through piece in the center section, going out three ribs on each side of center. Once the wing is joined, just draw a line on the top of the ribs, saw the ribs out, slip in a piece of cardstock for a template, then cut out the center brace. I then epoxied the whole thing together. It really adds a lot of strength to the center section without much weight gain. I'm using four wing servos, so I don't need to worry about a servo location in the center of each wing.

For hinges I used the iron-on coverite type of hinge on mine. It's a little tricky to line up, but once ironed on, they are solid hinges and seal the gaps as well. I have used Robart hinge points and I like them. If you use them, before gluing them in, bend the hinge to one side (closed/opened?), and put a little vaseline in the center hinge point. Do this from each side. Then, when you glue or epoxy them in, you won't glue the hinge area. Also, once you have glued them in and before the glue sets up (use epoxy for more work time before setup), move your surface both up and down to full excursion. That will help line up the hinges properly so they don't bind, and ensure that you have enough surface travel. Recheck after you do this to be sure your hinge gap is the same along the length of the surface.

No pictures on mine yet, but other than a couple of last minute details, I'm just about ready to cover.

Good to hear that Futaba is coming through for you. I think they will gain a lot of good PR with that move, vs the bad press they could have received if they didn't respond positively.

Lee