DaveCFI

Hi all,
I have been in this hobby for about 3 months now and am just getting started on my first kit, a Sig 4* 40. I think building will be almost as much fun as flying. I thought I would post some pictures of my progress through the build for anyone that cares to see them. Here is the first evenings work.


I have one question so far. What is aliphatic resin glue? Is that like Titebond wood glue? Why do you use it? The plans suggest using it for the sheeting over the wings. Why not use CA?

DaveCFI

Kaos1964

My Feedback: (12)

Dave -

Looking great! Yes, aliphatic resin is like titebond. On sheeted surfaces, CA is ok but aliphatic is probably recommended because it will give you a bit more time to get things laid out, straight, etc. Also, looking down the road towards covering your project, CA is difficult at best to sand and can cause some issues as you do finish sanding.

Hope this helps -

Bob

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Dave, my congratulations also. It's great to have more builders rather than ARF assemblers. I rarely use CA for construction. I like the capability to align things and realign if necessary. And as Bob indicated, CA sands like a concrete wall. The aliphatics sand much better and some better than others. You'll find varied opinions throughout this forum on favorite aliphatic resin glues. Mine is Titebond.
Use a slow set epoxy in the area where fuel is likely to be present or leak. Seal the entire engine area and tank area with epoxy.

meaden

Looks good! I built one earlier this year. It's a fun plane.

I use wood glue a lot when there is no rush and no other reason (like it needs to be fuel proof.) It's Non-toxic, has extra working time, is cheaper, and easy to clean up. On a good joint the wood will fail before any glue you use so strength is not a problem.

Test005

Some people, like myself develop an allergy for CA glues, therefore Aliphatic resin, (Like Titebond) is prefered.
It's also better to build with in my opinion, there's a number of good things about it, such as non-toxic, washes off your hands easily. Sands easily and dries slowly which is good for alligning pieces.
If you build diffrent sections of the plane simulaineously, you can still build fast though. Just let some piece dry while working on another.

I still keep some thin CA though, it's great for hinging and gluing extra difficult spots with, otherwise it's all 'Great Planes pro wood' glue for me (Aliphatic resin)

hogflyer

Yeah, like they all said

Acutally I've found over time CA also tends to get brittle. I've got several plane that are 25 to 30 years old built from Titebond and they are all still structurally airworthy. I had a plane the was 6 years old and was built with CA (bought the plane from an estate). When the plane suffered a catastrophic structural failure in flight and hit the ground, sevaral joints broke loose where the CA, not the wood, had failed. The epoxy joints suffered wood failure just as they should have.

A lot of very good advise from first hand experience posted in this thread. If your going to build a plane, whats the rush to gain a couple of hour using CA when, IMHO, aliphatic resin in the long run is the better bonding agent. Building a plane is not a rush to see who can get it out the door first - that's what ARF's are for. Builders take pride in their work, so take your time, build a bit slower and a lot more accurately, and you'll be rewarded with a good flying plane that an ARF will never be able to match!

Hogflyer

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

someone mentioned epoxying the firewall. i would recommend you thin the slow setting epoxy with alcohol first because the epoxy isnt doing anything for strength but is adding weight. you can get away with doing it but weight wise thinning it would give you the same protection from fuel and also be lighter. though keep in mind thinned epoxy takes twice to three times as long to dry when its been thinned out. its a better alternative than CA due to the amount of fumes and mess CA leaves behind.

DaveCFI

Lots of great advice, guys! I sure appreciate the quick response. I have started so far using CA as the plans recommend but I am glad to see that a lot of you use Titebod. I have been a hobby woodworker for a long time and am quite familiar with Titebond. I didn't know how good it would be for building airplanes though. Didn't know if there was much of a weight difference or not. I will definately use Titebond where the sheeting joins though because of the sanding issue.

By the way, this airplane is the precursor to a scratch build I am going to do over the winter. I bought plans for an Aeronca LC low-wing that I can't wait to build. I thought it would be wise to build a kit before going straight from an ARF to a scratch model. I currently have 2 planes...a Hangar 9 P-51 PTS (my first plane) and a Hangar 9 Piper J3 Cub 40.

If I keep at this pace I know my wife will organize an intervention and I will end up joining some 12-step program.

DaveCFI

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Hi Dave,

My first build in a very long time is a 4*60. I used aliphatic resin on the sheeting and some other areas but I still had to use pins to hold the sheeting down. Books and stuff that were suggested just did not work for me. I also found a problem with the aliphatic resin expanding when drying. This pushed my trailing edge pieces away from the ribs. This is all no doubt due to my lack of experience but thought I would mention it.

I have found that I now develop an allergic reaction to heavy prolonged use of CA, such as when constructing a kit. However, I still prefer CA glue to all others. What I have done is purchase a quality respirator with replaceable cartridges. I put it on when I am using CA and I can't smell a lick of it. I also have been using the respirator mask when using various epoxies and paints. It's the best thing I have done in years for myself!!

Test005

Kmot:

Using pins in any part of the build, including sheeting is totally ok, one thing I can recommend though is to have sandbags when building.
I filled 10-12 palm sized ziplock bags with sand and had my girlfriend saw small bags for them. These are great for weighting anything down since they are soft and when the sand shifts inside the bag you get a good even preassure on any surface you place them.

Secondly, I suspect you used polyurethane glue? Normal Aliphatic resin doesn't expand, polyurethane does.

Third, one tip on sheeting: Attach the sheeting to the leading edge with thin CA, then Spray a light coat of water on the sheeting to make it flexible.
Spread aliphatic glue to the spars and underside of the sheeting and fold down on wing, place weights (sandbags) and let dry.

(Sorry if the spelling is wrong somewhere, I'm not English native speaker and these chemical names Polyhurialiphe*** is hard for me )

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

i think you spelled it just fine. i am a programmer and cant spell worth a darn which i hear is a trade common trait among programmers.

DaveCFI

Working on this very leisurely but I am almost done with the wings now. It is great fun and very relaxing! I just go out to my garage and tinker with it for a bit at a time. I will post a couple pics of the wings from opposite angles.

I have two questions at this time:

1. The main spar on the top sticks up a little past the ribs. Should this be sanded down flush with the top of the rib or is it ok the way it is? I just figured it would show through the covering when it comes time for that.

2. I think I would like to put rounded wing tips on it. The instructions say to glue a balsa block to the outer rib and carve and sand it to shape. Does anybody have pictures of an example of this? What size block should I use and how will it be shaped? I'm sure I can figure out the shape as viewed from above but don't know how it should look straight on from the front or back.

Building a kit sure is a blast! Thanks a lot!

DaveCFI

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I on the other had use nothing but CA and epoxy. I have had some bad reactions from it though but that was cured by getting A bigger shop. Moving at the moment and my new shop is much smaller so I may be going to good old wood glue myself sometime soon.
You picked A great one as A first build, the 4* is just as much fun in the air as on the board. Glad your liking it!!!

Test005

1. On my 4*60 the top spar is above the ribs and not sanded down, this looks ok once covered.

2. Do not glue the balsa block to the wing right away, glue it temporarily to something else so if you make a mistake you can do another one. When almost ready, pop it loose and permanently glue it to the plane.
As for the shape, don't know, but a slightly upward tapered shape would probably look good.

DaveCFI

Oh yeah, I have another question. (I'm sure it won't be the last.)

I have a spare Hangar 9 universal engine mount. Can I use this in the 4* 40 instead of the engine mount supplied with the kit? That way I can build the fuselage without having the engine on hand and also I can change out the engine later if I want to without having to alter the mount at all. I am planning on using a Super Tiger .45 in this plane.

Thanks.
DaveCFI

Test005

You can use whatever engine mount you want. (There is no "SIG-engine-mounts-only"))
Just make sure you get the blind nuts in the right location before building the firewall in the fuselage.

manks7477

Dave,

I have built about 8 kits, the first 7 I used mostly CA, then for the last I moved to aliphatic resin, and I will not move back to CA unless I need to. The Resin sands better, cleans up better, is less brittle and is much less expensive. Do yourself a favor and only use CA when you really need it and use the resin for most of the rest, way better to work with.

Charlie P.

I helped an Explorer Post build four Sig LT-40s. The host site wouldn't allow CA or epoxy inside! We smuggled the kits out to epoxy the wing saddle, brushed thinned epoxy in the nose/bay for fuelproofing and smuggled them out again to CA the hinges. Other than that all four were aliphatic (good old Titebond). The interesting thing is that each kit had four builders, and each group had a different advisor. I brought some acid brushes and our group used them and wiped up excess with wet paper towels. One group was 4 girls and they probably use 1/4 of the glue that the heavy spreaders did. We were in between. All four models were flown for several months and then drawn for and, to my knowledge, there was no glue failure on any of the four. I wish I'd weighed them all to see what the glue application varried.

I've built several kits using Aileen's Craft Cement (a vinyl based white glue) for most of the joins. No question CA makes the wings loft up faster, but I don't like using it.

I won a selection of Dave Brown's gold label odorless CA and CA gels at a fun fly raffle, and if I was a rich man I'd use that exclusively. Nice stuff.

Note: when sanding aliphatic remember that the balsa around the glue is a lot softer than the dried glue. It's best to remove as much as possible before it dries and use a block when sanding.