Small Bipe kit
07-09-2007, 08:14 PM
#2
RE: Small Bipe kit
I don't think there's much out there anymore in that size. I'd scratch build. Here are plans that are readily available:
RCM - Basic Bipe (36 inch, boxy and easy), Airmeister (42 inch mini Aeromaster; would work if built light), Jungmeister or Tiger Moth (Whitehead).
Northrup Plans (see ads in Flying Models) - Galloping John, Bitty Bipe, Beech Staggerwing, Waco (the last two for .25 two strokes with simplified construction but still good scale outlines).
Model Aviation - Gypsy Moth (50 inch).
Flying Models - Dreamer (38 inch Pitts type - would need to be built light).
This is just a small sample of what scratch building can open up for you. Jim
RCM - Basic Bipe (36 inch, boxy and easy), Airmeister (42 inch mini Aeromaster; would work if built light), Jungmeister or Tiger Moth (Whitehead).
Northrup Plans (see ads in Flying Models) - Galloping John, Bitty Bipe, Beech Staggerwing, Waco (the last two for .25 two strokes with simplified construction but still good scale outlines).
Model Aviation - Gypsy Moth (50 inch).
Flying Models - Dreamer (38 inch Pitts type - would need to be built light).
This is just a small sample of what scratch building can open up for you. Jim
07-09-2007, 09:37 PM
#3
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RE: Small Bipe kit
Great Lakes from Flyline is a very nice plane for this size, a good friend in my club has one of them, it fly very well but is hard to build.
I got one by ebay, there are many similar kit, did you see there?
I got one by ebay, there are many similar kit, did you see there?
07-10-2007, 12:17 PM
#4
RE: Small Bipe kit
I would recommend a Gordon Whitehead scale bipe from the RCM plan service.
Built several of them, all are great fliers and a joy to build.
I'm now building my second Jungmeister, I guess it means I like it
Built several of them, all are great fliers and a joy to build.
I'm now building my second Jungmeister, I guess it means I like it
07-10-2007, 08:42 PM
#6
RE: Small Bipe kit
Teachu2- thanks, but wouldn't that one be a little too small for a Saito 30? I dunno, but I was figuring on more like a .25-size, not a .15 like that Ace kit. Nice looking kit, though- thanks
EF- The Jungmeister looks like excellent work. After seeing your DSA-1, I'm really impressed with your attention to detail. You have a fine hand, sir! I'll look into the Whitehead bipe. Thanks also to Buzzard Bait for the same suggestion[8D]
EF- The Jungmeister looks like excellent work. After seeing your DSA-1, I'm really impressed with your attention to detail. You have a fine hand, sir! I'll look into the Whitehead bipe. Thanks also to Buzzard Bait for the same suggestion[8D]
07-10-2007, 09:57 PM
#9
RE: Small Bipe kit
Beautiful Whitehead Jungmeister, EF. From all the magazines I've read over the years, Gordon Whitehead's scale model construction articles are my absolute favorites. They do not have tons of laborious detail, but they have good outlines with just enough scale touches, and he writes so well about all the fun he has with them. But I have yet to build one! Yours is a real inspiration, EF, thanks for the pics. Jim
07-11-2007, 09:57 AM
#10
RE: Small Bipe kit
Thanks for the warm words!
I can honestly say a small Gordon Whitehead sport-scale design is an excellent way to go.
I've built to date, his Tiger Moth (48" span, OS 20FP engine) and his Hawker Hind (48" span, OS 26 FS) both of which would easily take a 30 FS.
Both were a joy to build and fly.
BTW I plan to build second versions of both – I fancy a yellow-with-aluminum-nose Hawker, and another Tiger Moth in red-and-silver (just can't have enough Moths…), not to mention his slightly larger D-VII and even larger Gamecock plans waiting.
I also built Gordon's little Avro 504K, flew well but a little too sensitive to winds, but this may have been just an impression, or a wing loading just too low...
My only major modification from the J' plan was to have both the wings attached with nylon bolts in place of the rubber bands.
The satisfaction from a good plan-build is something that has to be experienced!
I can honestly say a small Gordon Whitehead sport-scale design is an excellent way to go.
I've built to date, his Tiger Moth (48" span, OS 20FP engine) and his Hawker Hind (48" span, OS 26 FS) both of which would easily take a 30 FS.
Both were a joy to build and fly.
BTW I plan to build second versions of both – I fancy a yellow-with-aluminum-nose Hawker, and another Tiger Moth in red-and-silver (just can't have enough Moths…
), not to mention his slightly larger D-VII and even larger Gamecock plans waiting.I also built Gordon's little Avro 504K, flew well but a little too sensitive to winds, but this may have been just an impression, or a wing loading just too low...
My only major modification from the J' plan was to have both the wings attached with nylon bolts in place of the rubber bands.
The satisfaction from a good plan-build is something that has to be experienced!
07-11-2007, 10:46 AM
#11
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RE: Small Bipe kit
The ACE Ultimate bipe is nice, if you don't mind the foam wings. May be a little light for the Saito .30, mine is also a rocket with an os .25fx on the nose. It was radared at 91 mph a couple of years ago. I still can't believe the wings didn't fold.
Great flying airplane.
Great flying airplane.
07-11-2007, 03:29 PM
#12
RE: Small Bipe kit
Daven- Yeah, I just can't get past the foam wings on the Ace kit.[:'(]
EF- could you please post pictures of your wing bolt mod, and any other pics that might shed some light- thanks. And yes, the Gamecock was the first set of plans I saw, and if this wasn't a project for a Saito 30 I would have ordered them last night![8D]
EF- could you please post pictures of your wing bolt mod, and any other pics that might shed some light- thanks. And yes, the Gamecock was the first set of plans I saw, and if this wasn't a project for a Saito 30 I would have ordered them last night![8D]
07-12-2007, 12:12 PM
#14
RE: Small Bipe kit
With regards to the wing bolt modification – it's quite simple really and I hope the pics clarify it, however basically what I did was the following
(I've gone into a lot of detail in an effort to help, and it is really easier than it may seem from reading all this):
For the bottom wing – I installed a hardwood cross-piece in the fuselage above the T.E. and tapped two 10-32 holes.
At the front it is a little tricky – although the idea is to simply install a dowel in the wing L.E. center and make a corresponding hole in the ply fuselage former, the design is such that there is very little material left under the hole if you are not careful, but if you are then it is OK and also the bottom balsa block adds a lot and the whole area then becomes very strong.
So that's what I did and I'll give you a little tip:
When building, don't build the wing, then the fuselage, and then try mating them, rather - finish the wing first, including the L.E. dowel, and then prepare the hole in the ply former at the correct position according to the plan and your wing (put the dowel about 2 mm higher than on the wing section cord, to "gain" a little material under the hole in the ply fuse former).
Next, wrap the wing center section with nylon film, install the ply former on it with the dowel engaged in the hole, and continue positioning the fuse sides on the wing and assemble the basic fuselage structure on the bottom wing. You'll be amazed how accurate a wing-fuse fit you'll get and how the whole wing-fuse alignment will be accurate and easy to achieve. Remember these small bipes have zero tolerance to inaccuracies in construction and alignment (and that's why I practice building them once in a while – then my larger models really come out good).
At the bottom of the T.E. I put two 1/32" ply pieces to take the pressure of the bolts. You can put one piece, but "think light" on such a model, all along the construction.
Finally, I built using some balsa T.E. section and a bit of 1/32" ply, a small "receptacle" or "raised slot" for accepting the aft l/g wire. The gear engages in that when you assemble everything. Use epoxy here, and the ply with grain perpendicular to the direction of the wire/slot. Do use very soft wheels since that would be the only means of shock absorbing.
Now for that top wing: I added four hardwood blocks in the wing (actually made of sandwiched 1/4" ply pieces) which then accepted four 10-32 tapped holes.
The cabanes – I simply took their edges that are supposed to remain straight and accept the rubber bands, and rolled them into horizontal circles such that a 10-32 nylon bolt would just go through. The aft set is easy, the front is tight because it is very close to the wing L.E. and at that area the section bottom starts to curve up a bit. Tight, but can be done. See pics.
So now you have a model assembled with six bolts but it assembles quickly and also, you need not take it apart often, it is small. The benefit of all this is not just looks, it's also the fact that every time you assemble the model, it is exactly the same, and we mentioned these little bipes don't tolerate mis-alignments...
Use nylon bolts that have the slot recessed, or otherwise there's the risk of the screw driver perforating your wing...
One more mod, if anyone is still reading all this, I added shear webs between top and bottom, fore and aft spars, from 1/16" balsa, vertical grain (see pic).
This I did for about 75% of the span (from wing root to one rib bay after the aileron break). Not sure it is necessary, I trust Gordon that if it isn't on the plan it is not mandatory, but I prefer it, even though I fly rather basic aerobatics. Maybe it gives more resistance to wing warping over time...
Hope it all made sense, if not, don't hesitate to ask.
(I've gone into a lot of detail in an effort to help, and it is really easier than it may seem from reading all this):
For the bottom wing – I installed a hardwood cross-piece in the fuselage above the T.E. and tapped two 10-32 holes.
At the front it is a little tricky – although the idea is to simply install a dowel in the wing L.E. center and make a corresponding hole in the ply fuselage former, the design is such that there is very little material left under the hole if you are not careful, but if you are then it is OK and also the bottom balsa block adds a lot and the whole area then becomes very strong.
So that's what I did and I'll give you a little tip:
When building, don't build the wing, then the fuselage, and then try mating them, rather - finish the wing first, including the L.E. dowel, and then prepare the hole in the ply former at the correct position according to the plan and your wing (put the dowel about 2 mm higher than on the wing section cord, to "gain" a little material under the hole in the ply fuse former).
Next, wrap the wing center section with nylon film, install the ply former on it with the dowel engaged in the hole, and continue positioning the fuse sides on the wing and assemble the basic fuselage structure on the bottom wing. You'll be amazed how accurate a wing-fuse fit you'll get and how the whole wing-fuse alignment will be accurate and easy to achieve. Remember these small bipes have zero tolerance to inaccuracies in construction and alignment (and that's why I practice building them once in a while – then my larger models really come out good).
At the bottom of the T.E. I put two 1/32" ply pieces to take the pressure of the bolts. You can put one piece, but "think light" on such a model, all along the construction.
Finally, I built using some balsa T.E. section and a bit of 1/32" ply, a small "receptacle" or "raised slot" for accepting the aft l/g wire. The gear engages in that when you assemble everything. Use epoxy here, and the ply with grain perpendicular to the direction of the wire/slot. Do use very soft wheels since that would be the only means of shock absorbing.
Now for that top wing: I added four hardwood blocks in the wing (actually made of sandwiched 1/4" ply pieces) which then accepted four 10-32 tapped holes.
The cabanes – I simply took their edges that are supposed to remain straight and accept the rubber bands, and rolled them into horizontal circles such that a 10-32 nylon bolt would just go through. The aft set is easy, the front is tight because it is very close to the wing L.E. and at that area the section bottom starts to curve up a bit. Tight, but can be done. See pics.
So now you have a model assembled with six bolts but it assembles quickly and also, you need not take it apart often, it is small. The benefit of all this is not just looks, it's also the fact that every time you assemble the model, it is exactly the same, and we mentioned these little bipes don't tolerate mis-alignments...
Use nylon bolts that have the slot recessed, or otherwise there's the risk of the screw driver perforating your wing...
One more mod, if anyone is still reading all this, I added shear webs between top and bottom, fore and aft spars, from 1/16" balsa, vertical grain (see pic).
This I did for about 75% of the span (from wing root to one rib bay after the aileron break). Not sure it is necessary, I trust Gordon that if it isn't on the plan it is not mandatory, but I prefer it, even though I fly rather basic aerobatics. Maybe it gives more resistance to wing warping over time...
Hope it all made sense, if not, don't hesitate to ask.
07-12-2007, 08:12 PM
#15
RE: Small Bipe kit
Got it--nice method, building the fuse right on top of the bottom wing--makes sense.
I have a VK Nieuport that uses small metal screws into blind nuts. Metal tabs with 90 degree elbows are soldered to the cabanes.
You know, I've allowed the conventions of the club to distort the kinds of planes I build. Reading about, and seeing, all your Whitehead biplanes reminds me of why I started doing this in the first place.
And yes, if you want a kit, I forgot all about the Gee Bee Tiger Moth. It is not very scale at all, but still looks nice, and there are some things you can do to make it a little more in character, like increasing the lower wing dihedral, giving the top wing more sweep back and carving your own scale cowl. The Whitehead plans would be an excellent reference since they are in a similar scale.
Jim
I have a VK Nieuport that uses small metal screws into blind nuts. Metal tabs with 90 degree elbows are soldered to the cabanes.
You know, I've allowed the conventions of the club to distort the kinds of planes I build. Reading about, and seeing, all your Whitehead biplanes reminds me of why I started doing this in the first place.
And yes, if you want a kit, I forgot all about the Gee Bee Tiger Moth. It is not very scale at all, but still looks nice, and there are some things you can do to make it a little more in character, like increasing the lower wing dihedral, giving the top wing more sweep back and carving your own scale cowl. The Whitehead plans would be an excellent reference since they are in a similar scale.
Jim
07-31-2007, 02:38 PM
#18
RE: Small Bipe kit
Well, now I have to wait for this hot summer to cool off a bit before test flying, and also to run the engine on a bench as it hasn't flown quite some time.
If tests are successful, a dummy engine will follow, to complete this little sport scaler.
BTW, came out balanced "as built".
If tests are successful, a dummy engine will follow, to complete this little sport scaler.
BTW, came out balanced "as built".
08-02-2007, 03:04 AM
#20
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RE: Small Bipe kit
Congratulations on a very nice GW Bücker Jungmeister EF!
Gordon's plans are excellent and I have a number of them. So far I have only built the AVRO 504, but hope to complete a Krier Kraft of his design during the coming year. Many of his plans are available from the [link=http://www.rcmmagazine.com/store/store-plans.html?sid=0001oR0FPZ7JoG0U8g0r2J3]RCM Plans Service[/link] or [link=https://sslrelay.com/s119033911.oneandoneshop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=1546b18c87257f2/shopdata/index.shopscript]Traplet[/link] in the U.K.
As for wing attachment, in one of the pictures below the arrangement that Gordon used for all sport scale cabanes from the Avro 504 onwards is shown. Nice and simple! If you have an interest in Gordon Whitehead's designs you relly should try to obtian a copy of his book, "Radio Control Scale Models for Everyday Flying". It contains a lot of information on how to build smaller scale models and I consider the book my model aircraft building bible. It is long out of print, but fortunately it has to a large extent been republished as a series of articles in the British [link=http://www.modelactivitypress.com/fs_framesetbi.htm]Flying Scale Models[/link] magazine.
I found this thread where Gordon has posted some scans of construction articles for his D.H. Tiger Moth and Druine Turbulent: [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529295]RC Groups thread[/link]. They don't write construction articles like that any more... :-(
The Flyline range of kits included many nice aircraft such as the 40" Great Lakes Trainer, the 35" Stearman C3B and my favourite, a 32 1/2" Bücker Jungmeister by Don Srull.
I have seen some of the kits for sale at ebay but there is really no need to buy an expensive kit (unless you are acollector) because the plans are available from [link=http://www.freeflightmodels.com/]Free Flight Models[/link] at very reasonable prices. The Great Lakes plan is $7.00! The Flyline kits consisted of no cut parts, instead there were printed sheets of balsa and ply that you had to cut yourself.
Gordon's plans are excellent and I have a number of them. So far I have only built the AVRO 504, but hope to complete a Krier Kraft of his design during the coming year. Many of his plans are available from the [link=http://www.rcmmagazine.com/store/store-plans.html?sid=0001oR0FPZ7JoG0U8g0r2J3]RCM Plans Service[/link] or [link=https://sslrelay.com/s119033911.oneandoneshop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=1546b18c87257f2/shopdata/index.shopscript]Traplet[/link] in the U.K.
As for wing attachment, in one of the pictures below the arrangement that Gordon used for all sport scale cabanes from the Avro 504 onwards is shown. Nice and simple! If you have an interest in Gordon Whitehead's designs you relly should try to obtian a copy of his book, "Radio Control Scale Models for Everyday Flying". It contains a lot of information on how to build smaller scale models and I consider the book my model aircraft building bible. It is long out of print, but fortunately it has to a large extent been republished as a series of articles in the British [link=http://www.modelactivitypress.com/fs_framesetbi.htm]Flying Scale Models[/link] magazine.
I found this thread where Gordon has posted some scans of construction articles for his D.H. Tiger Moth and Druine Turbulent: [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529295]RC Groups thread[/link]. They don't write construction articles like that any more... :-(
The Flyline range of kits included many nice aircraft such as the 40" Great Lakes Trainer, the 35" Stearman C3B and my favourite, a 32 1/2" Bücker Jungmeister by Don Srull.
I have seen some of the kits for sale at ebay but there is really no need to buy an expensive kit (unless you are acollector) because the plans are available from [link=http://www.freeflightmodels.com/]Free Flight Models[/link] at very reasonable prices. The Great Lakes plan is $7.00! The Flyline kits consisted of no cut parts, instead there were printed sheets of balsa and ply that you had to cut yourself.
08-02-2007, 09:50 AM
#21
RE: Small Bipe kit
Thanks for the kind words, and yes! The fun and joy that Gordon's book has brought to me over the years!
As my "well flown" 27 year old copy of the book will testify!
And look at the open page! It's THAT little bipe again!
Until I found this book I used to fly boring sport models every weekend, and dream of Top Gun scale models (that I would probably not fly every weekend), but then the book showed me how I can enjoy "real scale models" every weekend.
I know today you can buy (B)ARF scale models but it just isn't the same...
As my "well flown" 27 year old copy of the book will testify!
And look at the open page! It's THAT little bipe again!
Until I found this book I used to fly boring sport models every weekend, and dream of Top Gun scale models (that I would probably not fly every weekend), but then the book showed me how I can enjoy "real scale models" every weekend.
I know today you can buy (B)ARF scale models but it just isn't the same...
