jolson88

I'm just getting started with R/C Airplanes. I am getting started with flying by getting a Hangar 9 Arrow RTF. However, I'm trying to plan out some future planes. I figured for my second plane I would do a Sig 4 * ARF. And then, perhaps build another trainer from a kit (like a Sig LT-40 or Great Planes PT-40). This trainer wouldn't necessarily be for me, but for friends that are wanting to get into R/C airplanes.

Is this a good way to go? Would it be too much to go straight into kit building by building my second plane (the 4 *) from a kit? In other words, should I "get a feel" for R/C airplane building more by doing some ARFs before going into kit building?

I was thinking that a trainer like the LT-40 or PT-40 would be an easy kit to build since the lines and shape are very simple (unlike a warbird, or to an extent, a Cub). I would love to get enough experience to be able to build a Corsair from a kit in the future.

With the horrible falls and winters we get here in the Northwest, I figure that getting into the building side of the hobby would not only be fun, but would kill some time on those rainy days.

Thoughts?

Don41

I'd build a simple kit like the LT40. I've done a couple of ARFs for others and the instruction are (at best) minimal. If you have kit experience it's no real problem understanding what they failed to say in the ARF instructions. There's also the usual ARF problem of pre-assembled items that are defective or just don't fit. Experience can't be beat when you run into these situations.

Bad_Daddy

ARFs should be bought only by those who are too lazy to completely build another kit (like me) or by those who are too inexperienced to know what a well-built plane looks like.
In other words, sacgate already gave you all the straight, linear poop.

aussiesteve

First up - Welcome to our addiction

That's Darned straight advise given to you so far by Bad-Daddy and sacgate.
Building a good kit like a SIG with good kit instructions will teach you more about these planes than anything else.

ARF's forever for us lazy guys. (and those that are too lazy as well as too short on time to build a real plane)

jolson88

Thanks a bunch guys. That's some great advice.

I hadn't thought about the instruction and manual angle before regarding Kits vs. ARFs. Plus, like you mentioned sacgate, if I build a simple kit (and understand it), it will be easier for me to diagnose and rectify problems that arise when building an ARF (if I EVER go that route :P).

Of course, now the debate is what order. Any ideas how complex the kit for the 4 * is? Is it better to do the Sig LT-40, and _then_ move on to the 4 *? I debate because the 4 * would make a nice second plane for me. To my albeit novice eye, the 4 * doesn't look like it's all that complicated line and shape wise (especially if it's true what they say about the quality of the Sig and Great Planes kits). However, if it's not necessarily the best kit to start with, perhaps I'll have to settle for having two "trainers" in a row .

Some more questions if y'all don't mind .

- Does it matter whether I go electric or glow for the kits? I'm assuming on the good kits it basically comes down to mounting and perhaps fuel tank area?
- Are there any recommended books/websites to buy/visit regarding building kits?

Campy

My Feedback: (1)

I usually suggest an ARF for the 1st plane. This does 2 things - it gets the person in the air quickly and you are 99% certain the ARF does not have any twists/warps in it.

For other planes definately go with a kit. You will learn a lot about how they are constructed so that you can repair your plane when that time comes. Something like the SIG Senorita (all stick built ) will teach you quite a bit about building planes AND KEEPING THEM STRAIGHT AND WARP FREE.

Don't get discouraged with a kit. It takes awhile to "get the hang" of things and the construction does not go as fast. Don't try to rush a kit. If you take your time you will have a better looking and flying model in the end, not to mention the satisfaction of knowing "I did this myself, I made a bunch of wood pieces into an actual flying airplane".

Alex7403

I think
People who stay long in this hobby built kits.
Kit built planes out live ARFs, I know how to deal with rising issues, I built it.
I must have something to fly. But my next one will be built much better, a kit.
ARFs are very delicate planes, they want you to get more of them…. [:-]
Its much more expensive but rewarding to build a kit. [8D]

Welcome to the addiction.

skeeter_ca

I like to build. period. I like going out into my garage and fiddling around. It's relaxing. When i started over 20 years ago, building from kits was the only way. I don't think i'll ever buy an ARF unless i crash my trainer and that is only so i can get back into the air quickly. I already have multible kits and plans lined up to build.

If you like working with you hands and creating something rather than going out and buying something completed, then you'll like building.

skeeter

Mode One

Having started a long time ago, when all there was were kits or scratch built, I think depending upon your interests, you can start with a kit or ARF. It's a personal choice only you can answer. Your second plane choice, is dependent upon your abilities and success at learning to fly. However, I think the 4 star is a good choice if you pick up on flying quickly.

Like you, I have a long winter building season. I actually have more time to build then fly due to the fact that all outdoor activities must get done during the warm months. I also like building better then flying as I have been doing both along time and building is always challenging, whereas I can get bored farly quickly flying. I like to describe my interest in this hobby as 50% building, 30% B.S.ing with my flying buddies and 20% flying.

Building is fun, glad you are interested in this aspect of the hobby and I wish more were like you!

mclina

The 4*40 is an extremely easy kit to build. It goes together faster than a lot of ARF's.

I built one before I ever flew my trainer, and it is still hanging around waiting for me to get good enough to fly it.

heli_Rod

I have two field of thoughts on kit vs ARF.


ARF

1.) I'm NOT an ARF fan, BUT, they do have a place in the hobby.

2.) ARF's are usually built straight, though not always well constructed. Most require "beefing up".

3.) Most ARF's come with complete hardware packages, again, not always the best hardware.

4.) You are more likely to learn quicker on an ARF because there isn't the sentimental attachment to it that you will have for a kit built plane. You are more willin to put the plane at risk. Not many tears are shed when an ARF goes in the dirt!

5.) You can be in the air with an ARF in a very short time, compared to building.

6.) ARF's are relatively cheap.

7.) Most ARF's fly well, but ask people before buying one to be sure which are better.



Built-up

1.) Building is a fun part of the hobby, that is if you like to build.

2.) When you build, you know exactly what is inside the plane and how it was constructed.

3.) Here's a biggie...pride of accomplishment! I love flying what I build. I'm proud of my workmanship.

4.) Kit built planes last longer than ARF's, they are constructed with TLC, not in a sweat shop!

5.) You can repair a kit plane much easier than an ARF. You have the plans to work from.

6.) Nothing worse than walking out to your plane that YOU built with a trash bag in hand....LOL.


Final thoughts? Ok. Getting an ARF for a first plane will get you in the air and you can be flying NOW! While you are learning on the ARF, you can be building that special plane that you will enjoy flying and take your time building it. You can have the best of both worlds!

Just my humble opinion,

Rod

jolson88

Thanks all (and thanks mclina for letting me know the difficulty level of the 4 * kit).

While it is too late for me to start with an ARF since I already purchased the RTF, I am going to go ahead and dive into the deep end by buying the kit for the 4 * instead of the ARF. I will probably order this in a couple of days when my Arrow arrives at the LHS. This way, I can just take my time with the kit and not be in a hurry to fly it since I will still be busy with my trainer.

I can't wait!

scottrc

Good choice on the 4* kit. I have seen both the kit built up and the ARF and the kit seemms to be the better of the two. It is a great kit, all laser cut and well engineered, you'll like it.

Scott

mclina

Great choices, and good luck. My trainer is the H9 Alpha, and I am having great luck with it. The engine has given me no trouble at all.

In addition to being easy to build, the other great thing about the 4* is that there are tons of very good build threads with very detailed pictures of every step. Take your time and read a couple of these from start to finish before you even open your box, and you will have a really good idea of where any potential mixups might be. There really aren't many.

This is one of the best threads, with some excellent pictures:


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_55..._1/key_/tm.htm

jolson88

Once again, thanks mclina! I certainly can't wait. Part of me wants to run out and buy the kit today . I think I will try to continue to be patient like I have and take some time reading the threads and the like (plus getting a work area shaped up in preparation).

jolson88

While reading some other build threads, I thought of another thing. Since this will be my first kit, how much time should I expect to sink into it? I don't want to be "on track" for a kit-building newbie and be getting discouraged because I think I'm painfully slow or something like that :P. I know, just like everything else goes, practice makes perfect, so I will only get better as time goes on.

I was planning on doing a 40 size. Since this is my first kit, would it be better to do a smaller scale one to make it easier and to "ease into" the process?

heli_Rod

That's really hard to say, jolson88. Everyone builds at different speeds and and the time available is also different for everyone. Take your time, especially since this will be your first build. Read the instructions throughly and completely before you ever start building. Set aside a time when you an work undisturded. It doesn't matter how long you work each day or week, but try to set a goal. Build a little each session and it will soon be finished. I don't recommend that you try to finish it in week or two as a goal. Don't pressure yourself to finish it. You will be learning a lot of new skills as you build. If you have a question...ask....the only stupid question is the one never asked!

Though it seems funny, remember there are left side and right parts and assemblies......don't laugh.....I've seen several planes built with two left wings...LOL. Read and understand the instructions for each step BEFORE you build it!

Good luck.

Rod

mclina

Heli Rod gives good advice. Take your time and enjoy the building process. The way the kit goes together, there are several discreet steps that make good intermediate goals. The payoff is quick, as you build the wings first.

Even taking your time, pinning everything and checking for square before gluing, you'll find you have your first wing half done in a few hours. The second wing half goes even quicker. The longest part of building the fuse is waiting for the glue to dry on the doublers. You get it all dry fit with rubber bands in no time, and then go back and glue it together.

These steps can go by quickly, but slow down and enjoy them. Take a good look before applying glue, and think through to the next step to make sure you don't have anything backwards. I am impressed by those who document their builds in photos, mine went so fast, I never took a single picture.

Good luck.

jolson88

Great. Well I hope this isn't a trend :P. I was going to wait until I get my work area setup to go buy the 4* kit. After reading the forums during my breaks at work, I couldn't take it any longer. On the way home, I stopped by the LHS and bought the kit. In the vein of "taking your time," I figure this allows me time to peruse the instruction book and plans and get comfortable with the resources you get in a kit.

Also, I can go through the Four Star build threads and "compare notes" with the provided instruction book and make some notes. Yes, I'm a dork. I over prepare for everything! Hopefully this way though, I will succeed when building my first kit.

Crap. I might be addicted if the build goes even HALFWAY decent ("decent" for a beginner that is). I would love to get to the point to do some scratchbuilding (perhaps a Wright Flyer eventually :P).

Mode One

Make the "Goal" be having fun and enjoying the building experience! There are so many factors in the process of building, that for us to attempt to tell you how long it will take you, is an impossible task. This is your first exposure to building an R/C airplane, better to take your time and get comfortable with the process, then to frustrate or scare you off from this enjoyable and relaxing past time.

JohnAgnew2978

You really don't learn much from an ARF, but you can be flying an ARF while building your first kit. Modern kits have really great instructions, and if you are willing to follow instructions you almost can't miss.
For some people, building is another hobby of itself. For others, it's an unbearable chore. Kit-building, I'm afraid, is on the way out. Do some while you still can. Enjoy!

Wolflord

I know I started wrong as I went right to a hard kit (TF GE 1/8th Scale Corsair), I have had some building experinece so I thought it would be a nice challlenge (so far it has been and looks very good). Now I have bought a P40 PTS Trainer, and I am going to fly it and help devlope my flying skills on a warbird. Building is very rewarding, for me anyways. I like taking a square piece of balsa wood and make it into something that looks like a plane.

Have fun with your kit building, I hope you find it rewarding as I do.

Wolf

Juice-Dog

jolson88,

Kit building can be a great reward. I have built 3 kits already (Trainer, Tiger60, Pete 'N Poke) and am still learning on my trainer. (Took some time off from flying, but could not stand not building). Just remember that alot of the treads for the 4* are written by people doing modifications. All are good options, but only concern yourself with the ones for structure issues, like to the fuse formers behind the wing, for your first build. Once you get comfortable with buiilding and understanding how to review the plans and see how some modifications will effect other components of the air frame then try some other mods. I to am fixing to start a 4*40 next week. If you have a question or concern, drop a message on RCU or click the email link for me and I'll see if I can help since we will probably be near the same stages in construction

BobFE

I started out by building an LT-40. I got it for Christmas, so being winter I wasn't missing the flying. The kit was really easy to build and flies great. My second kit was a Great Planes Cub. Again, I enjoyed building it, but it was not a good choice for a second plane (see Great Planes Piper Cub Nose Dive in the Crash and Rebuild section). My third kit was a Sig 4*60 (see Father/Son 4Star Build in the Beginner secion). I have nothing but good things to say about this kit. Easy to follow plans. Easy assembly. You might want to go with the 60 size. The wingspan won't be much more than an LT-40, and it will be easier to see in the air. I won't worry about choosing a 4* kit as your second plane, you would be making a good choice.

I've purchaced one ARF, a Hobbico Twinstar. Unfortunatly it crashed on it's maiden. Still don't know why. The plane was flying great, then on base trying to turn left for final, the plane rocked right, then settled out of sight. Didn't feel that broken up about it. The plane just wasn't personal to me. After I rebuild and modify it though.........

Welcome to the addiction....er hobby. The feeling of seeing an airplane you built from a "box of wood" flying for the first time is something you'll never forget.

Mode One

Got to disagree with you! I think if you poll the members of your club, you will find there is still plenty of interest in building.

If this hobby goes to nobody building kits or from scratch, I will loose interest REAL FAST!