TFF

People at my club get uncomfortable when you say you built it and make you stand at the end of the field. [

Arebeck

My Feedback: (2)

I always wonder why some folks take great exception with those who fly and build/assemble ARF's. I build kits, 'assemble' ARFS and fly both. I think that ARFs or RTF are a great way for new people to get into this hobby. Chances are that you are going to crash your first plane, even if you use an instructor. Those first cross wind landings are always exciting for the pilot and those in the pits!!

If you spent long hours to build your kit and then crashed it you might feel somewhat frustrated and decide that this is not really worth it after all. If you only have several hours and some money tied up into the plane I would think that while you might be upset, you would not feel the same frustration as you could if you spend the long hours building.

With that said there is a certain satisfaction that comes from build a plane form a bunch of sticks.

To sum up we have three different hobbyists involved here:

1) Those who kit build and fly

2) Those who assemble ARF's and fly

3) Those who love to build and really don't like to fly (Good people to know if you want to buy a plane - what do you call these guys!!)


Now what do the scratch builders think about people who only build kits?

What about helicopters - are they built or assembled?

The discussions can be endless!!

Have fun building/assembling/flying.

MP3_tilaco

When you build from plane for me you are super hero, is a big job and usually every minute is a minute of love for your model. I did it but in very simple plane like SIG Wonder.
Is very tragic when you crash your plane but when you repair it your plane is almost new because you know every pice of wood, you have plan, monokote, scrap of wood,etc.

My second Corsair crashed.











And two week after it is ready to fly again

MP3_tilaco

You can get plans and build from this but when the kits company close or finish to sell some models you never can get this models again. Only this models will be in your memory.
I buy some of them in Ebay, and I have to pay a lot for the models and the shipping fee (Ilive in Chile,in South America).
I try to show to my friend my planes and I try to teach to build, I posted almost all my building time and I show them that my models doesn't sell or buying in the shop because it has a little part of my effort, my time and this give to me time for my self, time for stop, time for listen music or watch TV.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

A good friend took the ARF path. He has something like 25 fly-able airplanes. Thats just crazy. I build so that won't happen to me. I keep it around 5 planes in the fleet and and I sell off the oldest.
I must add, that it isn't as much fun to build now. I think its because no one appreciates the work. They just don't know what they are looking at. It was more fun when everyone built. And everyone asked how is the project comeing along. We pushed one another. We cheered one another on.
And when I look at the latest and greatest ARF warbird model, I do wonder why I am still building. Why can't I just lay down my money and take the easy way ? ITs not becasue I'm cheap. I am cheap. But building often cost as much, if not more, than ARFs. So why do I do it ? I really don't know. I have built models for 40 years. I just can't imagine what it would be like if I didn't have some project waiting for me at home. The thrill of rapping one up. And the immediate need to find another. Its some sort of disorder.
The ARF pilots do get addicted to the hobby just like we did. But they have some build resistant strain. The virus must have mutated over the years. Well, what ever. Good for them. I would join them if I could. But the ghosts of a hundred old friends would come and haunt me for doing it. I would have betrayed thier memory. They were my heros. So here is to them. The pre-internet geeks that ruled the neighborhood skies. This kit is for you.

0z0

This Wonder was built only 2 weeks ago, my friend Mp3 Tilaco gave me the plan and some pieces of pre-cutted balsa wood. As you can see the result of a elevator failure was a destroy fuselage, but in one week it will be flying again sure.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

I like em all,if you like kits great,if your into kits only, that's great also.
I like the building process myself and have built quite a few kits but when other things become a first priority like my kids and life in general pulling a plane out of a box and just flying is allright with me.
if you have alot of spare time on your hands then right on build away, our club doesn't care where your plane comes from it's how you fly it that counts.
it seems to me you get what you pay for if you get a cheap knock off ARF then you should expect a low quality product, mass produced, with low or no quality control.
the arf's I have are pretty good and fly as such.
the latest gripe,or the loudest one it seems is "kits are going away" which doesn,t seem to be the case, there is a bunch of kit cutters ready and waiting to give you a fine kit to order with tons of accessories,if building is your prefered thing,trying to blame the demise of kits on ARF's seems a bit silly.
ARF's have opened the door to many who don't have the skill or desire to build, but want to fly,I have seen some absolute dog poo kits built that don't mesure up to many jig built ARF's,it's more of a matter of preference,ability and desire.
the difference is when I started RC in about 1976 there was almost no ARF's and all kits, so thats what the LHS stocked there was a market for that product, but making a kit that just sits for months or years doesn't make sense waiting for someone to come by and buy it.
even my LHS doesn't keep alot of the ARF's on hand but will order any kit,part,or ARF,for me and have it in a couple of days.
you might want to go to a air show and ask the majority of the top RC pilots what they fly, I would bet there flying ARF's there too buisy flying to build there own planes.

MP3_tilaco

Mmmm, I'm agree with you about your first priority, but in the past we read a book and now I watch TV.... What is the better for the family? Is not the better that your children see your father do thing with his hand with passion, waiting for finish the model and enjoy the first fly? or is the better go to shoping to buy a plane in the mall and crash it with out frustration, "no matter, I buy another one".
The point is what do you expect about your hobby?

May be I can't explain bacause I'm spanish spoken but I'm sorry, I try show my idea and I tray to learn too.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

MP3 don't worry about the 'English' your thoughts came through clear! I'm in agreement with you. Raised 4 children and was building kits at the time....used to name a plane after my kids 'Miss Jenny' etc. The kids loved it!

Red_Jeepster

For me the actual act of building a kit, or from scratch IS THE HOBBY. I started with Comet rubber kits as a kid, built nearly all of them, still have 20 or so kits in my building room. Then as I grew up, got a job (meaning - had money finally) I moved into RC.
I use to ride my bike 4 miles to the LHS just to see what was new, and drool over the kits.
I love taking my time, making it perfect, every glue joint and cut exactly right. I try my best to make it a work of art before the covering goes on - then I know it will stay together in the air.
Over the years I have built over 60 kits, scratch built 10 from RCM plans or other sources, even designed my own SailPlane (3 meter!)
I've flown about 6 of them. Yep, I'm a builder. I build them to fly, then sell them or give them to friends. I've built for friends, built for money, built for trade in tools.
But I have avoided the ARF thing - for the above reasons.
Now I live in Romania, as a Missionary, and time for the Hobby is slim. I am getting ready to build something - just deciding which it will be.
I have a long forgotten GP Decathalon 40 kit (17 years old) I brought here, I have plans for a "Slow-N-Low" from that flying school, and I am considering ordering a Sig Kadet Senior from Tower. (Yep, they deliver here!!!) I just need a power plant to put up front.
An ARF wouldn't "scratch that itch" that is in most BUILDERS.

MP3_tilaco

Let me show my new proyect....



Is hard to build and expensive but I'm enjoying every moment while I'm building, maybe I can buy it in ARF, is cheap too but when I see my work finish I get a pic and I show to my friend how my new plane born. (I'm father )

Red_Jeepster

Hey MP3! How about writing a thread while you build this kit!

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

I wasn't knocking those who decide that all there planes should be kits just that with the time I have to spare and my other activities, I build one major kit per year and the arfs I have I enjoy.

I have 2 kids there a handfull and I also have other things going on in my life other than building airplanes.
to compare lifestyles I wont MP3 tilaco I have been to Chile a couple of times nice country,and people,also nice surfing.

its not modeling, but more like escaping disaster ph#1 punta de lobos,pichilemu chile.my buddy and I sneaking under a big one
ph#2 portecillo,chile,one of my favorite moments camping out in the wilderness.
check my gallery for a couple of my planes there's ARF's as well as some kit builds,I am in the process of painting my TF P-47 a good dose of variety for me is all I was saying,I like to keep my eyes open.

MP3_tilaco

Thanks. My country is very amazing too, we have a beach very near to Santiago and Santiago is too near to ski center too, and have desert and Estrecho de Magallanes too.
I love my country, I know Chile complete because I work in topographic business and I have to go from the South of Peru to Punta Arenas. If you come again try to visit San Pedro de Atacama, very nice place, you can see a lot of star during the night and visit volcanos, geisers, archeologic place, etc.
I went with my family for vacation there, I new it and I want my children know this place before they go to other countrys, now they remember their vacation in every moment, I'm very glad for they.

This river is 15600 feet high



Toconao church.



Licancabur Volcano.



Sorry, was a little rest.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

very nice photo's,the shot of the river is super, nice looking family also looks like your a blessed man.

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

Its nice to have choices I think its nice to see the hobby have all the types. for starters i know of a guy who likes flying but not building which is good for me because i like building. I assemble his arf's and if he were so inclined to fly something only available in a kit i would build it for him. Its a way for me to get to build more aircraft than i fly and the same for him to fly more than he builds. A great symbiosis. I still don't see why this argument continues, its all in what you like. even if the arf market drove the kits out i would continue to find out of production kits or scratch build. heck there are guys who think kits are lazy and scratch built airplanes are the only way to go, go figure! I say dont knock others fun and stick to what makes YOU happy and we will all continue to be happy and co-exist. That is the primary reason this hobby has died off as of late is crankiness.

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

I agree... I share my ARF assembling with my Kids. I let my kids read the instructions on my ARF'S for me when I assemble them. That way they learn Chinese... Learn to analize and desifer really bad Instructions and get an understanding for bad gramer & lousy lay out. They also get a better understanding why translating from one language to another can be a total mess... No wonder the world is a mess. Just buy an arf and you will figure out why the world is a mess and no one really knows whats going on.... LOL : )

Stickbuilder

What do the scratch builders think about those who build kits? We think that they are still building airplanes. We, who build from scratch do have to draw our own plans, develop the templates and then we cut our kits. They still are kits when we begin the build. It does, however, remain a work in progress (since we often have to re-cut some parts due to changes in design as we go forward). The fact remains that we do build, and not glue some sub assemblies together. We also have knowledge of what the model is built from, and what kind of glue we used in the construction process.

In summation, there is not that much difference in building from scratch, or building from a kit. If you disagree with that statement, try building one of Emil Neely's old Ikon models from a one of his kits. It was a good place to start, and you did have some useable patterns. That's about all. Have a nice day.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

The only major downsides of ARF's IMO is that....

1) everyone's plane looks exactly alike.. unless you strip the covering off and recover which kinda negates the advantage of an ARF anyway with the price of moneykote
2) When it finally plants itself, you have no plans to go by for a rebuild

My Soucy Extra went in about 2 weeks ago, and I have no plans. Luckily I can rebuild from the pieces... make my own templates/parts, etc... If I had built this from a (non-existing) kit, I would have all of the drawings/templates I would need.

Kit building is VERY rewarding (and my hats off to peeps like you Bill who scratch build.. but hey I'm going to build that Ziroli P-40 as soon as the plans come in... TY Bill !!!!). I just finally got around to finishing up my Adrian Paige GeeBee R2 kit that I've been off and on working on for quite some time, and also finishing up an old Dynaflite Bushwacker for old times sake. Only have three other kits on the shelf for now though... an old Craft-Air Scout 15 (same plane my dad and I learned to fly on), Florio Stunt Wagon, and a 2d autogyro kit.

The best thing in the world is going somewhere with your model and someone asking you "Was that an ARF?" " .. and the satisfaction you get when you say that you built it.

By the way.. I still drool over the idea of an Ikon GeeBee kit

EF

It's good to have a choice, that we did not have years ago.

I enjoy both.
I like to scratchbuild, but like to fly too.
I fly everything I build, but don't see today the need to build everything I fly.
This way I am becoming a better flier and a better builder, and ENJOYING my HOBBY as much as I can.

It is not really possible to build yourself everything you like, so I choose those I would like to build, and buy an ARF of another I would like to own and fly.

Currently I'm building a Ziroli B-25 (cutting everything myself, no lazer cut parts!) and in parallel am going to assemble a large ARF warbird.
I see the two concepts living together very well.
I also choose carefully my ARFs, going only for what I really like, and even then still modify some things for better scale accuracy and serviceability.
It's typical for me to assemble an ARF in 2-3 months, and still it takes far less time and money than building it myself. Yet, I am very happy building at leisure what I really find interesting to make all by myself.

Stickbuilder

Amen Brother. That's why it's a hobby. Best of luck to you.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bulldog Brotherhood #95

yearning-to-fly

Here in Michigan we have "building season" i.e.- the time when the weather won't allow you to fly, but building keeps you connected to the hobby. I'm well started on my first kit in more than thirty years, and enjoying every minute of it. I flew contol line as a kid, and back then the hours spent making that plane "just right" added both a sense of satisfaction and pride when it flew well, and a degree of intensity. No matter how many lawns you had to cut to buy the kit and supplies, it was the time you spent building it that you thought of when you drilled one in. With winter closing in it was a temptation to go with an ARF, since it was the only sure way I would get airborne this year, but I'm stealing every minute I can to build, and holding out hope that "my" plane will fly before the snow does. In either case, it's a sure bet that when spring rolls around there will be a few more in the fleet.