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Sig King Kobra Build

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Old 09-14-2008, 07:25 PM
  #51  
SPLIT S
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

Thanks for the compliments on mine. I couldn't be happier with how she flys, the OS pulls her along nicely. It really is a set it and forget it type of engine, I only wish I would have put it in the first place.

Your work is first class - neat and accurate, something I aspire to as well. I like your technique with the polyester cloth and the fiberglass. It's always been a bear to get a nice flat surface the old way without chewing away at the balsa to get the featheredge. I'll definitely be using that technique for the next plane. Currently I'm trying to finish up my JetMach in time for the October jet event at my club. Just about ready to cover, only some sanding left to do, then final assembly.

Dan
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:07 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

could you describe a little more in detail on the wing center section work you did? i think i get the peel ply but how do you keep the cloth and epoxy underneath neat?

thx, david
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:50 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

Dan, hope you get the JetMach finished in time. I'm looking forward to having another "set it and forget" engine. For the most part OS engines are very dependable.

David, I marked the area on the wing that I wanted the fiberglass cloth to cover and painted within that area with a light "tack" coat of epoxy resin. I had previously cut my cloth on a 0/90 degree orientation (lengthwise down the roll of cloth). This direction provides the best bending strength and minimizes the amount that the cloth will try to change shape while working with it. However, the 0/90 does not let the cloth go around sharp leading edges or into tight corners very well, so plan any layup accordingly depending on the weight and style of cloth being used (fiberglass, carbon, Kevlar and Peel-Ply).

Place one end of the cloth down on your starting point and gently brush the cloth down into the tacky area of resin, keeping the edges as straight as possible. Wet out the cloth with the bare minimum resin and use stippling action to work the bubbles out. In most cases the air bubbles will pop straight up through the cloth. If not then work the bubbles to the closest edge, using the stipple action to move the bubble along.

I also cut the Peel-Ply on the 0/90 degree and used the same technique to apply it. Generally you need very little resin to wet out the PP. If you have any lumpy areas (resin rich) then use a squeegee to work the excess resin to the edges. Use even pressure to help keep the layup thickness consistent. When possible I place masking tape down the sides of the PP to help minimize any shifting of the cloth just in case you have to work air bubbles and excess resin to the edges.

I used a hardener with a 60 minute pot life, so I came back about 15 minutes after finishing the layup to check for any bubbles that might have formed while the resin was thickening. If you have any bubbles then stipple those out, and if the resin is thick and the bubble doesn’t want to go away try dipping the tip of the brush into Acetone and working the area again. Don’t get carried away with the Acetone; use very little.

I hope this explanation was clear enough. I can get long winded and sometimes make something simple seem complicated. I am the son of an engineer that is highly detail oriented and it rubbed off on me! I hope that’s a good quality!

Mike
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:53 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

More pictures.

I used Sullivan #517 pushrods for the rudder and elevator so a little modification was in order. I left part of the upper fuselage open to install supports for the pushrods against the bulkheads and to help guide the rods into place. For the elevator pushrod I had to make another bulkhead and install it near the tail end.

I had an error in calculations that led to the removal of the inner section of my original pushrod retainer that was glued to the front of bulkhead F-4. That is the reason that F-4 appears to not fit well near the top surface, against the 45 degree balsa corner pieces; it’s not the real F-4 bulkhead.

Mike
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

More pics.

The nose wheel area in the wing was finished off similar to the builder’s manual recommendation, but I used 1/16" sheeting for the long fairings, and also for the area of the inner cover near the top of the wing (near the top of the wheel when it's retracted). This allowed me to wet the balsa and bend it to provide a little aerodynamic shape; no sharp corner in the top rear. Maybe this will help the air escape a little easier and get me another 0.125 MPH out of it!

I used 1/16" balsa for the long fairing pieces since it was easy to work with and I will be fiber-glassing the wing. I would have used 3/32" if I had planned to cover the wing with UltraCoat/MonoKote. I did use 1/8" balsa for the main wheel box. The wing wheel well fairing and lower fuselage belly block are now ready for some cosmetic filler work.

Mike
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:44 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

thanks for the explanation on the wing work. i will start practicing that application very soon.

david
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:45 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

I made a cosmetic error that can be seen in Post #55. I will try to cover it up with filler material and re-blend the area before fiber-glassing the wing. If you haven't noticed, or don't see my mistake, then I'm saying no more!

Mike
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:57 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

I spy with my little eye......... I give up.
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:48 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

Looks Great. The King one of my most loved planes
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:32 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

John,

I used the Sorghum because I had an unopened container on the shelf. However, I will never use it again now that I have discovered Gorilla Glue. Since sheeting my KK wings I have visited the Carden site and was impressed with the wing sheeting techniques using the Gorilla Glue and will copy that from now on.
Is there a link to the Carden site for sheeting wings with Gorilla glue? I looked and didn't see anything. I'd like to learn more about this technique. Thanks!

FB
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:37 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

sheeting wings with gorilla glue or any other poly glue is simple and works very well. i show my technique on my own KK build. or i can post the technique here.

david
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:40 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

sheeting wings with gorilla glue or any other poly glue is simple and works very well. i show my technique on my own KK build. or i can post the technique here.

david
Let's not hijack this thread, please provide a link to your build. Thanks David!

FB
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:15 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

of course not. i reviewed my KK thread before i decided to post a link here and i wasn't very descriptive with my wing skinning work so no need to post a link. however there is a lot of info out there on using this technique.

david
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:50 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

If someone finds the Gorilla Glue link please post it here. The Carden site has several building links but those articles don't describe the GG technique that was once there. If that GG link can't be found someone please feel free to write up a "How To" and post it here.

I did a little work on the KK project and here are the pictures.

I positioned my canopy about a 1/4" behind that shown on the plans. I marked my cut and sand lines for the fuselage corners to help guide the process. The inner two lines are where I cut and sanded my 45 degree bevels to, and then I finished rounding the corners using the outer lines as a guide.

I’ll use some G10 composite material to make the two gaps in the cowling a little smaller. The small piece is bonded to the firewall per the instructions, and I pulled an epoxy/micro fillet on the inside for additional support.

Mike
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:18 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

mike, looking good there. i used a competitor of gorilla glue (probond) to sheet my KK wings. before sheeting i taped over the retract/servo mounts so the balsa skins wouldn't adhere to them. i poured the probond onto a paper plate and used a 6" foam paint roller to apply it to the foam. it doesn't take a lot, i rolled the glue around until the color almost disappeared, just a clear sheen when you hold the wing up in the light. i then lightly misted the balsa skins with water and applied them to the wing core. next i place the wings back in their original shucks, then place that assemblage between pieces of plywood (mdf) and clamp the whole thing thoroughly. 24 hrs later you have an insanely strong bond. here is a photo of another planes rear stab being glued. have fun.

david
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:47 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

David,

Thanks for posting that technique. I like it. The use of a 6" foam paint roller really speeds up the process and minimizes the excess glue. I'll use that idea next time for sure.

Mike
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:29 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

the roller literally pushes the glue around until the wing core just looks wet. that's why you have to hold it up in the light to make sure you covered everywhere.

anytime, david
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:30 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

Polyester and Fiberglass Ironing Temperature

This is kind of a follow-up to David’s question and Mike thought this build thread was a good place to post additional information, so here it is…

I have been talking with Mike about the Peel-Ply technique for finishing the center of a wing. One question I had was how to remove the fold lines and/or creases in the fiberglass tape. Mike also wondered about removing wrinkles or the fold lines in polyester (Peel-Ply) from the fabric store. Well, he mentioned that we should run some “tests” on ironing and flattening the fabric to help achieve a better finish.

So, I took some time and got through some temperature experiments with the polyester and the fiberglass tape.

I just used my wife's iron because other guys probably have that on hand. Here are the temperature tests:

1) Iron set on "Synthetic"; Temp = 190, the hard creases remain in the polyester and the light wrinkles relax. The folds relaxed a bit in the fiberglass tape.

2) Iron set on "Silk"; Temp = 210, wrinkles and most of the crease relaxed well in the polyester. The harder creases did not relax from the fiberglass tape.

3) Iron set on "Wool"; Temp = 260, the polyester started to show some shrinking!! The fiberglass tape flattened out and became smooth in the "flat" areas between the creases; still some creases remained in the heavy fiberglass tape.

4) Iron between "Wool and Cotton"; Temp = 300, just started to relax the harder creases in the fiberglass tape.

5) Iron set on "Cotton/Steam" (but used dry); Temp = 400, heavy fiberglass tape flat, but still some visible marks from the old creases. Light weight fiberglass tape ironed nice and flat (See Photos).

I don't know the actual "weight" of the fiberglass tape. The heavy stuff I refer to is 3-inch tape from a Sontronics package I bought (Mike thinks it may be as heavy as 6 ounce). The light weight tape is 2.5-inch stuff from Carl Goldberg. I used a Coverite temperature gauge (dial type) to measure the iron temperatures.

Hope this helps some of you guys trying this technique. The photos I posted are the lighter weight fiberglass tape. They show the starting creases and end result the best.

I also have some other pictures of my results using the Peel-Ply technique here: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7276786/tm.htm]Global Skyraider Build[/link]

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Old 10-06-2008, 07:56 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build


Nice tire on the nosewheel, where did you get it?

I've just started my King Kobra and noticed some things I thought were deficiencies.

1. The plans/instructions do not show a way to route the retract air lines, such as your soda straw method. I called them and they said that's something the builder should know how to do. Well, of course, but SIG should include that in the instructions imho.

2. Was expecting to see a spar joining the wing halves but didn't see it. Did I miss it? I might just add one.

3. The quality of the wing skin balsa was not so great.

4. Would like to see SIG review their plans and update them where needed.

I could use my OS 61 FX but think I'll spend $200 on the OS 75. I really appreciate your build thread for the King Kobra. Saves alot of time and provides confidence!!

-oliveDrab
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:29 AM
  #70  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build


Sounds like you would tend to use Gorilla Glue as your first choice in sheeting a foam wing. The KK instructions recommend using SIG Core-Bond, which has been discontinued, so I called SIG and asked them about using Gorilla Glue to apply the skins to the cores. A guy there named Bob claimed that GG causes the core to foam. He recommended using epoxy instead. Well, I would prefer to use GG. Where can I view your KK build?

Thanks
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:45 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

if you are asking me then i can say i didn't do a good job of detailing my wing sheeting work. just trust me, the gorilla glue or probond or whichever poly glue you choose, it will fuse the wood to the foam with a vengeance. just use a foam roller and push the glue around until you have a light sheen on the foam. and so on as i mentioned before.

david
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

oliveDrab,

The nose wheel on my KK is made by Robart and uses the Diamond Tread pattern. They also have Straight Tread as well.

I just came across a company that sells solid wheels that fit the Robart hubs but I lost the link. It was a company that sells RC Jet kits and accessories. If anyone has that link please send it to me. I have used the foam inserts on another pair of Robart wheels on a 12 pound Sukhoi and the tires still ran flatter than I cared for. The solid wheel replacement would be just the ticket!

The KK wing design uses fiberglass cloth to hold the two wing halves together and this process works just fine. I have never heard of a Sig kit using the foam/balsa/f-glass cloth design having a wing failure. I would not waste the time installing, or include the weight of, a spar joiner.

The wing skins in my kit were of good quality, flat, and straight. But, IMO, some of the wing skins were softer than I thought they should be. I still used them but put the softer material on the bottom of the wing. Since I am covering my wings with fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin this want be as big a deal compared to covering with MonoKote/UltraCoat.

Sig Core-Bond is very similar to Dave Brown's Southern's Sorghum and I don't recommend either one. If you need to smooth out your foam wing cores or fill dents with spackling material the CB and SS will not stick to those areas as well as the non-spackled areas. CB and SS were great products for their time but there are much better products available like Gorilla Glue and Pro-Bond. I would use epoxy resin mixed with a small amount of Micro-Balloons before I would use the Sig or DB products.

GG will not cause the white foam core material to foam. Look at where I used GG to bond in the Estes Rocket tubes that I used for running the aileron servo wires. The GG foams up and bonds to the white wing core foam material "with a vengeance"; great stuff!

Mike
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:36 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

I have a feeling the Sig guy just meant the Gorilla Glue was going to foam up when applied. I'm guessing they say that that to cover themselves in case a customer uses GG without the proper clamps & the balsa sheeting separates from the foam cores. Just a guess though...

Mike, your thread was more than I could take. I ordered a KK last week & am starting construction this week. By the way, what axles are you using? I ordered the same Spring Air set up you have & noticed you didn't bend your legs to form an axle but rather have a bolt on component. Thanks again for all the great documentation of your build.

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Old 10-08-2008, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

David B,

Glad to hear that you're joining in with a KK build of your own! Keep us posted on your progress. Also, thanks for the positive comments. I have enjoyed the documentation of my project and I’m glad to be able to contribute to this forum and meet other KK builders.

I believe that your assessments of the comments made by the Sig employee are correct. A slow set epoxy is a good recommendation for someone that has never tried bonding wing skins before.

The axles that I'm using are Dubro No. 616, but I don't believe Dubro is making these anymore. I found my 616’s while poking around in an old hobby shop several years ago. The No. 616 has a 3/16" axle with a 5/32" vertical gear leg hole. There was plenty of material so I drilled out the 5/32" hole to 3/16".

The Dubro No. 614 and 615 have 5/32” holes all around so you could drill out both holes to 3/16”. Again, there should be plenty of aluminum material to not adversely affect the strength for this light a model.

Mike
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:22 AM
  #75  
David B
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Default RE: Sig King Kobra Build

Thanks for the reply, Mike. I probably looked at the Dubro axles a dozen times but didn't need them at the time so I payed no attention. Other than not having to bend the strut wire & having some adjustment in strut length, are there other benefits to using these axles instead of just bending the struts? Also, check out my thread on foam wings & retracts. What's your advice?
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