Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I'm considering getting into the kit production business and I'm looking for help.

Please answer the following questions and feel to contribute beyond that if you would like. I appreciate any input.

Would you be willing to build a traditional balsa and ply kit with laser cut or CNC routered parts?

How do you feel about foam wings, foam turtledecks, foam tail surfaces, etc... Anyplace you specifically DO NOT want to use foam on an airplane? ie. belly pan? Turtledeck?

Would you PREFER a stick or slab built tail section? Possibly a stick built and sheeted tail? Or would you be happier with a foam core and sheeted tail section? Makes no difference to you?

What SIZE kit would work best for you? 40 size? 60 size? 120 size? 40cc+ gasoline size?

What KIND of airplanes would you like to see? Do you like just general sport type airplanes? How about a 3D plane? How about a scale aerobatic plane? What size? What about general aviation? Cessna 182 or A500 twin? (sorry, I will not be producing ANY types of warbird kits)

What about hardware? I'm a real stickler for hardware. I tend to slightly overbuild my hardware, but I've NEVER lost a plane to a faulty piece of linkage or a ripped out hinge. Would you prefer to buy a kit without ANY hardware at all? Or how about if it was an option to purchase some REALLY NICE hardware as an extra at the time of kit purchase? Or would the kit have to include a complete hardware set for you to consider it at all?

What's a comfortable price for you? I've seen kit prices from $75 up to over $1000. I know this is very subjective. It depends on the type of airplane and how complicated it is to prototype it, procve it and then cut it out for retail sale. But in general--would you pay $250 or $300 for a nize 60-90 size kit with all the hardware and CNC routered parts or laser cut parts? Fiberglass cowl, wheelpants and accessories. Nice quality wood, not cheap knotted up balsa. Contest grade balsa as an option? EXCELLENT instructions written in ENGLISH. Excellent plans and details. What would that be worth?


Thanks for any comments.

The first few prototypes are being designed and built right now. [8D] Can't tell ya...

Stickbuilder

Rcpilet,

It totally depends on the subject airplane. If it's the ablsolute best cut kit, with the absolute best hardware, with the absolute best drawn plans, and the absolute best written instructions, and if it is not a kit of an airplane that I like, I would not build it.

I think that there is the primary reason that so many kit manufacutrere have gone by the wayside. I don't think it's necessarialy an ARF vs Build thing, so much as it is that the kits that were being offered had no relevance to the modellers of today. How many of the young people can identify with anything from the World War I era? Or even the Golden Age era? With so many movies about WW II being released in the last few years, you can see that the planes called Warbirds have gained popularity.

That's just my opinion. Now, if you were to offer a great kit of a Golden Age plane, I would have a look at it, and if it was something that piqued my interest, I would be after it in a flash.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

rwright142

I'm more of a builder so anyone throwing their hat in the ring to offer kits definitely got my attention. I wish you luck.


Here's my answers:
---
1.Would you be willing to build a traditional balsa and ply kit with laser cut or CNC routered parts?
1. Either would be ok. I would want the cheapest way. I can correct any minor errors by sanding, patching, etc.

2. How do you feel about foam wings, foam turtledecks, foam tail surfaces, etc... Anyplace you specifically DO NOT want to use foam on an airplane? ie. belly pan? Turtledeck?
2. I have not worked with foam so I do not feel knowledgeable enough to respond to this question.

3. Would you PREFER a stick or slab built tail section? Possibly a stick built and sheeted tail? Or would you be happier with a foam core and sheeted tail section? Makes no difference to you?
3. Stick and sheeted.

4. What SIZE kit would work best for you? 40 size? 60 size? 120 size? 40cc+ gasoline size?
4. 60 and up.

5. What KIND of airplanes would you like to see? Do you like just general sport type airplanes? How about a 3D plane? How about a scale aerobatic plane? What size? What about general aviation? Cessna 182 or A500 twin? (sorry, I will not be producing ANY types of warbird kits)
5. WARBIRDS

6. What about hardware? I'm a real stickler for hardware. I tend to slightly overbuild my hardware, but I've NEVER lost a plane to a faulty piece of linkage or a ripped out hinge. Would you prefer to buy a kit without ANY hardware at all? Or how about if it was an option to purchase some REALLY NICE hardware as an extra at the time of kit purchase? Or would the kit have to include a complete hardware set for you to consider it at all?
6. I would prefer to choose my own hardware. Offering the hardware optionally would be a good idea.

7. What's a comfortable price for you? I've seen kit prices from $75 up to over $1000. I know this is very subjective. It depends on the type of airplane and how complicated it is to prototype it, procve it and then cut it out for retail sale. But in general--would you pay $250 or $300 for a nize 60-90 size kit with all the hardware and CNC routered parts or laser cut parts? Fiberglass cowl, wheelpants and accessories. Nice quality wood, not cheap knotted up balsa. Contest grade balsa as an option? EXCELLENT instructions written in ENGLISH. Excellent plans and details. What would that be worth?
7. Yes, this is subjective but I would pay the $300 as you noted.
---

However, I ONLY build warbirds. Too bad you will not be offering any. Why did you make the decision against Warbirds?

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Good luck on this endeavor, I'm happy to see anything come back in kit form. I like the traditional stick-built structure, and since the advent of laser cutting, think that's the best way to go in terms of fit and quality of cut parts.

As far as foam parts go, maybe minimal areas that could benefit from the use of foam, such as compound curves or shapes difficult to achieve in wood without a major amount of shaping and bending (wingtips, faired headrests, belly pans, etc.)

I prefer stick-built tails, usually lighter, and just as strong if bracing is properly engineered; I like .60-1.20 size, but keep the option open for larger scale if it's a really special plane.

If you're not gonna do warbirds, then Golden Age, from late '20s to early '40s. I like fabric covered planes, but there are some models partly sheeted that I admire (SRE Waco, for instance)

Leave out the hardware. I can't remember ever building anything, kit or ARF, where I used the included hardware (maybe just a few parts). As far as materials quality, I'm not familiar with actual grades, but at least as good as what you would find in a Sig or BUSA kit.

Price, of course, would depend on scale and finished size of the model, but I would gladly pay in the $250-$300 range for a 1/5 or 1/4 scale kit, knowing I was getting good plans and directions, good quality wood and cutting, major formed parts (fiberglass cowl, wheel pants, etc) and also knowing I would have to supply my own hardware.

TFF

I think the way the market is now you have to be considered " the best" in the design, what ever it is, like Carden for big aerobatic, BUSA for big WW1, ect. I think too many random kits and sizes will be too much to handel. Also is it going to be a part time job or a full time one? Most want it to support there lifestyle but rarly can. There are two kit producers at my club and they are pretty well known in there nitch, but they have day jobs too. You need to figure out how many kits you can produce without strain with your workforce and figure out if it is enough.

I think good wood if you can get it and a good design will go a long way. Hardware delete would be nice if it reflected in the price, or an option to levels of hardware.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

For myself I like the standard type of stunt planes, Extras, Sukhois, maybe A Cap, these types anyway. 3-D or IMAC makes little difference to me but I am more into general stunt flying. Faom?? None at all. Hardware, I like to make up my own. As long as you supply the landing gear, cowl, belly pan, canopy and pants I'm happy. Size, 1.20 to 50cc, I enjoy planes in the 70 to 80 inch spans. This size gets flown more because it's easier for me to get to and from the field and I can bring several planes with me.
Price is A tough one. Kit price is the reason I started building my own planes from plans. When the kits like Goldburg went over $200.00 I started buying plans and built my own kits. I started going to auctions and if I found A kit I could buy cheap I would. I love the CG Extra and Sukhoi but the price was out of line for A kit that came with plastic parts or really cheap glass. The finished product was nice but there was A lot of money sitting there.
I do wish you luck and hope to see you make up A kit that will part me with my modeling money.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Thanks for the great feedback guys. I really appreciate it. There is no sense in producing kits that guys won't build, or including hardware that guys won't use. Those are major points for me, as a modeler who enjoys building.

I chose not to do warbirds because I do not like flying them. I personally have absolutlely ZERO interest in warbirds, so it would be hard for me to design and sell them. My partner in this endeavor feels the same way. It would be like a woman trying to design and build engines for the hobby, when she has no interest in the hobby or the engines. Recipe for failure.

We will offer the hardware as an option. The landing gear, pants, cowls and canopy will be included in the kits.

This is part-time gig. My partner and I are both very passionate about airplanes. Just as the rest of you are. But, we're not foolish enough to think that we can both quit our dayjobs and go into kit production full time. Not if we want to eat.

We are still researching the CNC router tables and laser cutters. It's a huge investment.

The prototype kits are being built from traditional balsa sticks, sheet and plywood. The emphasis is on lightweight structures that can take hard flying. They must be simple to build. Not necessarily EASY to build, but nothing weird in the build. I've personally seen and built some kits from Europe where you have to laminate 2 pieces of 3mm ply together for a firewall. That's rediculous. We won't be doing that.

Thanks for the input guys. Everything you are willing to say here will help us to produce the kinds of kits most of you want, and with the accessories and parts that you feel comfortable working with.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Unless you plan to design plans of a/c types that few, if anybody else does, why not utilize the many plans designers already out there? I'm not sure how the copyrights work, but some kind of alliance with one or more of the better plans designers would reduce some of your research and engineering time. There's tons of good, proven designs for many, many types already out there, why duplicate what you don't have to? You could offer a reduction or enlargement service if the available plans aren't in the desired scale of your prospective customer(s). Just a thought.

KitBuilder

I wojuld like to see more "affordable" WWI or -1950's scale kits in the 50 to 70 4 stroke class. Just about everyting is park flyer or 1/4 scale. To me, parkflyers are toys and I dont have room for 1/4 scale or the $$ for the big motors, extra covering, trailer. I'm currently considering scratch building my next project.

Doesn't have to be perfect regarding cutting and plans (notes), etc.. assuming the plans are laid out accurately. I prefer all wood rather than foam, etc. my.02
Mike

Crash Campbell

Hi rcpilet,

I'm sure you have thought through the issues in turning a hobby into a business, albeit part time? I have a colleague who is/was a very keen model/full size steam train buff who a few years prior to retirement started a business supplying bits and pieces for the train modelling fraternity. I went to his retirement farewell last weekend and he told me that whilst the business is going really well he no longer enjoys the train hobby like he used to.

That said:

1. I prefer lazer cut to die crunched.
2. I don't have any issues with using foam.
3. Stick built and sheeted tail surface with stick built elevators and rudder are my preference.
4. There is a fair selection of smaller kits. Lately I have moved onto the larger models so the 40cc plus size is of more interest to myself.
5. Sport, 3D and scale are my interests.
6. I prefer to buy my own hardware so the option of purchase without hardware would appeal to me.
7. If the quality is there price is secondary. However living in Australia freight (cost and time) is a real issue. I have purchased kits from the USA and there is a huge difference in freight costs and the time it takes to reach Oz. Some suppliers have charged as little as $57.00US for freight and it has arrived within 10 days. I have paid over $130.00 and waited for ten weeks plus for delivery. I think some suppliers look to loading the frieght cost to increase their profit margin.

Good luck with the venture if you decide to proceed,


Colin

FokkerAce

Ditto to most of the comments above!

#1.......The Kit has to be of a Real Airplane!

.60 to 1.20 size , 1/6th to 1/4 scale

pre-1939 preferably.

FA[8D]

horace315

My Feedback: (15)

1.Would you be willing to build a traditional balsa and ply kit with laser cut or CNC routered parts?
1. either would be fine,laser is much nicer for finishing

2. How do you feel about foam wings, foam turtledecks, foam tail surfaces, etc... Anyplace you specifically DO NOT want to use foam on an airplane? ie. belly pan? Turtledeck?
2. foam core balsa sheeted is stronger than wood.with the cutouts made in the foam for the controls. no foam core for the belly pan due to screws stripping out

3. Would you PREFER a stick or slab built tail section? Possibly a stick built and sheeted tail? Or would you be happier with a foam core and sheeted tail section? Makes no difference to you?
3. either stick or foam core and sheeted.

4. What SIZE kit would work best for you? 40 size? 60 size? 120 size? 40cc+ gasoline size?
4. 40 to 120 size

5. What KIND of airplanes would you like to see? Do you like just general sport type airplanes? How about a 3D plane? How about a scale aerobatic plane? What size? What about general aviation? Cessna 182 or A500 twin? (sorry, I will not be producing ANY types of warbird kits)
5. any kit listed.

6. What about hardware? I'm a real stickler for hardware. I tend to slightly overbuild my hardware, but I've NEVER lost a plane to a faulty piece of linkage or a ripped out hinge. Would you prefer to buy a kit without ANY hardware at all? Or how about if it was an option to purchase some REALLY NICE hardware as an extra at the time of kit purchase? Or would the kit have to include a complete hardware set for you to consider it at all?
6. include all hardware with options for upgrading with additional cost.
7. What's a comfortable price for you? I've seen kit prices from $75 up to over $1000. I know this is very subjective. It depends on the type of airplane and how complicated it is to prototype it, procve it and then cut it out for retail sale. But in general--would you pay $250 or $300 for a nize 60-90 size kit with all the hardware and CNC routered parts or laser cut parts? Fiberglass cowl, wheelpants and accessories. Nice quality wood, not cheap knotted up balsa. Contest grade balsa as an option? EXCELLENT instructions written in ENGLISH. Excellent plans and details. What would that be worth?
7. have a base price for each kit, and like some of the computer company do have upgrade option.
And as with any company or product have good customer support.you can sell an average product and make it great with that alone.I mise the Made in America stickers.

Live Wire

Rc-pilot
To be blunt and straight forward You will have to learn to like even what you don't like or you will not be able to get on the $$$$$$$ wagon. Not likeing to fly War Birds does not mean other people don't If you are going to sell what you like to fly I don't think it will work you will have to cator to the public like others have said. But one thing you can over extend yourself and have a lot of plane to build.

And would you be able to compete with people that would like to cut your throte
Price and Quallity

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

This is awesome feedback guys. I haven't heard one "off the way" comment yet. All good stuff.

Would you be interested in building services? We know that some guys don't have time, desire or skill to build from kits. Makes no difference. We all enjoy our hobby the way that works best for us.

For instance:
What about a kit that was mostly framed? You set the incidence, or not. You do the final mounting of the firewall, depending on your engine length, size etc..

Or, just an optional shopping cart to buy as many or few framed parts of the kit as you pleased? You could order the fuse and wings framed, and just order the sticks/wood for the rest of the plane.

We're trying to make our products very versatile in how we offer them. We've even discussed completely framed ARC planes with incidence set and firewall mounted to your engine length and bolt pattern. You just provide the info and we build to suit.

Thanks for the great participation here.

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

Would you be willing to build a traditional balsa and ply kit with laser cut or CNC routered parts?
Don't care as long as they're cut correctly.

How do you feel about foam wings, foam turtledecks, foam tail surfaces, etc... Anyplace you specifically DO NOT want to use foam on an airplane? ie. belly pan? Turtledeck?
Foam is fine. - especially if it reduces the cost of the kit.

Would you PREFER a stick or slab built tail section? Possibly a stick built and sheeted tail? Or would you be happier with a foam core and sheeted tail section? Makes no difference to you?
Stick built or foam core on anything larger than .60 size. Slab is OK on a .40 size.

What SIZE kit would work best for you? 40 size? 60 size? 120 size? 40cc+ gasoline size?
.40 to 1.20. BUT only lable it as a .40 if that's what you think 80% of the people buying it will use.
I'd like to see some info from the mfg on flying performance on min and max engine size. Example: Great sport flier with a plain bearing .40 - limited vertical. Unlimited vertical with a .82 four stroke.

What KIND of airplanes would you like to see? Do you like just general sport type airplanes? How about a 3D plane? How about a scale aerobatic plane? What size? What about general aviation? Cessna 182 or A500 twin? (sorry, I will not be producing ANY types of warbird kits)
Classy lines... Scale or not, it's gotta look cool. I want to be excited about building it.
Twins are awesome and kit selection is limited. The Pica Dualist is sexy.

What about hardware? I'm a real stickler for hardware. I tend to slightly overbuild my hardware, but I've NEVER lost a plane to a faulty piece of linkage or a ripped out hinge. Would you prefer to buy a kit without ANY hardware at all? Or how about if it was an option to purchase some REALLY NICE hardware as an extra at the time of kit purchase? Or would the kit have to include a complete hardware set for you to consider it at all?
Nice quality plane specific hardware would be welcome. Let me pick my engine mount and fuel tank. Sullivan sky lights would be a good choice for wheels. Pinned hinges please.

What's a comfortable price for you? I've seen kit prices from $75 up to over $1000. I know this is very subjective. It depends on the type of airplane and how complicated it is to prototype it, procve it and then cut it out for retail sale. But in general--would you pay $250 or $300 for a nize 60-90 size kit with all the hardware and CNC routered parts or laser cut parts? Fiberglass cowl, wheelpants and accessories. Nice quality wood, not cheap knotted up balsa. Contest grade balsa as an option? EXCELLENT instructions written in ENGLISH. Excellent plans and details. What would that be worth?
Would I spend $250 to $300 for a 60 -90 size kit? - no, that's a bit high considering what's out there.
Take a look at the competition. A Sig 1/4 scale Spacewalker is less than $200.

Klaatu

My Feedback: (4)

I am probably an anomaly in every way except for liking to express my opinions. I was an avid modeler for 15 of the first 20 years of my life, followed by over 30 years of no models. Having decided to take up the hobby again, I have been totally put off by the current state of the industry. I have no interest in ARFs of any flavor whatsoever. So, in the last 3 or 4 months I have bought over 20 kits; 2 from Sig and 2 each of 2 models from Bruce Tharpe. All of the rest are the old Royal / Marutaka .60+ scale kits; a Cessna 337 and 310 and the rest are WWII birds. Before I start building this winter I will buy a couple more from Sig and a few Top Flite WWII models. This should keep me in kits for a few years but one is always on the lookout for something interesting. Having said all of that, you probably know my answers to your questions, but here goes:

1) That accurately cut parts is important cannot be overstated. However, I remain deeply suspicious of laser cutting and the potential for degradation of glue joint strength with burned edges. I am obviously interested in warbirds but recognize the building and flying fun potential in sport flying. That only starts to explain why I am so enamoured of Bruce Tharpe's work. Have you ever had the pleasure of opening a box of one of his kits? For what they are, they are perfect. He cuts his own wood, with many parts getting their final shape with templates on a drum sander. Did I mention they were perfect? Follow his example with some excellent designs and you will get an order from me.

2) I have no use for foam on a model airplane. That is just me.

3) It depends on the size of the model. I think once you get into .60 size range, built up tail structures makes sense.

4) I have just sunk a whole lot of money into kits in the ~ 60" to 75" wingspan range so I suppose that defines my interests pretty well. It is not that I would not like to have larger planes, but it seems to me that in this size range I can build 2 or 3 or more complete planes for less than the price of 1 in the so-called giant scale range. I may like building more thank flying too, so I am happy with my choices. It is difficult enough to throw $1k+ in the air and enjoy flying ovals. Make that $5k +/- and it is going to be more difficult relax and enjoy the flight.

5) I know I need to start with some generic designs to hone my building and flying skills and I suspect that a Mid-Star 40 or a Venture 60 is always going to be fun to fly. My WWII fetish aside, I do not want to show up at the field every other weekend with a plane that every third club member is flying. Okay, you do not want to do warbirds, I can dig it. Getting them right is difficult. Getting them wrong just puts you in competition with Chinese slave labor and the ARF market. To get my attention, show me something new. Show me a Globe Swift, a really nice one. How about the homebuilt planes? BD-5, Barracuda, Falco, Melmoth, Prowler Jaguar or Polen Special? Stelio Frati had some other attractive designs besides the Falco. I would love to get some plans for the original Sequoia designs before they gave up and went with the Falco. The tandem 2 seater looked especially nice.

6) I would rather have no hardware at all than some of the cheap junk I have seen in so many kits. Optional, excellent hardware would be double plus good. And good wood, please.

7) A fair price is good. Some of the prices I have seen for the current high-end kits are obscene. Yes, I know this is a low volume business, but $5k for a fiberglass shell is like cocaine, it is god's way of telling you you might be making too much money.

I realize I am old school and a bit of a dinosaur trying to reenter a hobby that has evolved almost beyond recognition to me. However, I do think there is enough people like me for more companies to survive in today's market catering to what I want. It is obviously not going to be the big companies though.

- Jan

nipatzu

Here are my answers:

1. I prefer the cheapest, but i can pay more, if I now that the plane is good. Either would be okay CNC and laser kits

2. I have no use foam yet, but i think that i want to test the foam...

3. I like kits, which is easy to build and finish (Great Planes kits)

4. Methanol and under 60. size. Electric is nice too.

5. I like sport planes and aerobatic planes, Cap, Extra,Ultimate...

6. I want to buy my hawdware myself. Wheels, tanks...

7. Under 300$. Instructions with photos is nice thing. I like when wood quality is good.

I prefer Sig and Great Planes.
40. size is my favourite, because they are cheap and small.

Charlie P.

Just some random thoughts rather than ordered responses:

Seems the .40 to .60 size is (and has been) popuar.

80" monoplane and 60" biplane opens you to another, though somewhat small, market - the IMAA members.

I have no idea how to finish foam (other than sheeting it) and have not attempted to use it before. That would probably prevent me from buying a kit. Not any real prejudice - just unfamiliarity.

Purpose builds have some appeal - float planes, sea planes, pattern planes, Quickie 500 racers. General designs have broader appeal - "sport flyer". In general I have a model or design in mind before I start poking through catalogs: "I want to bulid an "X" next." Not: "Say, I've never built one like "Y" and that looks like it might be fun to build".

Offer a Chuck Cunningham Lazy Ace biplane kit and I'll buy it whatever size you offer. A simple design that can be bashed into hundreds of different variations.

There is a general lack of "squint scale" models. The old "50 Scale" (looks scale at 50 feet).

Personally I give kit hardware the benefit of the doubt and will use what comes IF it seems capable. It is kind of useless to include an engine mount, however, unless you intend on a very narrow engine option. Most modern flyers seem intent on overpowering designs and most included mounting brackets and hardware is marginal. Remember back when designs had maple or basswood rails incorporated into the fuselage and didn't NEED a seperate mount?

Fixed gear warbirds. I know many fliers (and builders) who keep to designs that don't have the added expenses and complication of retracts. Some of the designs from the 20's and 30's (warbirds or civilian) would be great builds and fliers.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Thanks to all you guys for the great input. It helps us to develope the business.

Here is what I'm gathering.

Most would prefer 40-120 size kits.
Most would prefer traditional wood planes. Not much interest in foam, although it's acceptable on certain designs.
Most would prefer no hardware with options to purchase a hardware pack at an additional cost.
Accurate parts design and instructions.
Good plans and instructions.
Nice glass parts.
There is a wide range of interests in different kits. From homebuilts, to twins, to aerobats, to warbirds and even sport planes.

What we do NOT want to produce is the Mustang, Cub, Cessna 182 etc. Those are a dime a dozen and have already been done by multiple manufacturers. Why compete with Sig?

We want to produce kits that make your mouth water when you look at the plans. Things that you are excited to build and even more excited to fly.

Charlie P.

Note also that Zenoah, Fuji and others are starting to make small gasoline engines. You have a generation of chainsaw and rotary trimmer users moving to R/C that like the lower noise and cheaper running costs of gassers.

Put up something simple like a Fly Baby or a PT-19 that takes a 20 or 24cc and can be flown with 40 to 70 oz. in. servos and you may have a ready niche. Or that Lazy Ace I mentioned earlier.

JCOKEEFE

My Feedback: (2)

[8D]I have been building kits for about 30 years. I prefer giant scale, i.e., 7-8 foot wingspans,
except for biplanes of course. I fly for sport, no 3d. My planes would be powered for 4stroke
glow in displacements from 1.20 to 1.80. I like all wood (balsa and ply), no foam. The kit would
have to have good hardware and pre-bent landing gear assemblies. A good set of instructions
would be helpful. Cowls, where required, would not have to be fiber glass. Price limit would
be $350-400. Rolled plans preferred.

WhiteRook

My Feedback: (38)

bring back the pica line of kits

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

I fly aerobats, warbirds, civil aviation singles and twins. The aerobats and warbirds are a dime a dozen. Kits and nice ARF's of aerobats and warbirds are always on the market. The truely hard stuff to get is the nice civil stuff. Hardly anyone sells it anymore. Most of my kits are from the 1960's to early 1980's. 60 size seems to be the most common size of civil kits. But something slightly larger would be nice also. Just go watch Ebay. The big bucks is almost always for the civil stuff.

Some of the kits I have do have foam wings. They really don't make things any easier to build. But, they aren't any harder either. So I would'nt mind either way about foam wings. I really like solid tail feathers. It allows me to foil them and taper them. Although they might start out as a giant block 1/2 inch thick, they generally look great once finished. I realize most folks complain about carving and shaping, but I love it.

Here is a pic of an old Glen Sig Be33 Bonanza that I have been working on. IT has foam wings, sheeted with 3/32, a simple box fuselage with a plastic turtle deck. Sounded simple enough to build. It was actually a bit more work than I thought it would be. But the model does pop. Consider that anew bonanza A36 cost about 700k. And there are less than half the civil planes flying today as there were 20 years ago. 4.50 a gallon avgas. 250/month for a T-hangar. Insurance is through the roof . Civil aviation is gong through the roof and deregulated airlines are selling tickets very cheap . Civil aviation , as we knew it in the 60's and 70's will soon be known as the "golden age of civil aviation". It just doesn't add up anymore to fly your own airplane. It just cost way too much.

I believe there will be a wave of nostalgia for civil avaition when people realize it is dying, (at least the piston stuff is). Sure, the Sirrus and Columbia have hit the market in recent years, but most companies are aiming at the turbo prop and small jet markets for the profit margins they need. Civil is where the void is in the model kit market as I see it.

ljd10

Just some passing thoughts. There are so many hobby people out there with many talents and long time building experience along with airplane type preferences. why don't they group to gather according to type of plane preference and develope ready to cut plans of variouse aircraft in their preferred interest. now there is a big difference between making a couple dollars and making a living out of models. just as in the model building "hobby" there are people who enjoy playing in the supporting roles of hobby building such as cnc cutting-laser cutinng-3d printing-decal making also foam carving. say a group or club is interested in a certain type of plane and pool there heads to gather and come up with a working blue print on any model-size-and building preferencing including material estimate. after that is all together find out for a "hobby cutter" will cut it for. at that point you will have an idea what you could sell for.{ how many and how much in variouse planes.
the reason I am saying this is that I am retired and have all the cnc equipiiment and am building a 45 watt lazer along with a 3d printer. I have no interest in starting a bussiness but in the hobby end of it I enjoy playing and the challenge.
with the capability of building your own cnc machines,laser, 3d printers, foam cutters, there will be alot of hobby cutters out that may be interested in cutting kits. with the cost of everything going up it does'nt hurt to be creative to get more out of the hobby. by reading these posts it doesnt look like any body would have to do much more than they are doing except to keep perfecting their favorite plane. for those of you that have built laser or cnc cut kits have some solid ideas on what should be done different and controll the outcome. I think the keyword is hobby.

dbacque

My Feedback: (3)

Rcpilot,

I'd love to see more kits. I fly nothing but kits and scratch. I prefer kits.

Balsa and ply kits are awesome. Foam is acceptable anywhere you have a notion. But I've never done well with sheeting and when foam is used I prefer pre-sheeted foam.

Tail section I do prefer to have shaped rather than slab, so either sheeted foam or built up is preferable to slab.

For size I mostly fly .60 - 1.20 size airplanes. They are easier to handle, easier to transport and easier to store but large enough to fly well.

Type of airplanes I am interested in is strictly dedicated aerobatic airplanes. I prefer pattern style airplanes over IMAC but I like pattern planes for my sport planes so the latest whiz bang pattern stuff isn't important. Just so long as they will hold a knife edge with little to no cross coupling and will trim out for good aerobatics.

For hardware, I'm going to probably replace it all anyway. After 40+ years of building I have found what works for me. I'd rather provide my own choice of hardware even if you can give me a deal on your choice.

Price? I don't want to pay what current top end pattern planes cost (thousands!) but I'm happy to pay a good price for a good kit. $200 - $300 for a kit? If it's a solid performer I'm a repeat customer.

Please lean towards the modern end of the pattern spectrum. There are more and more classic pattern kits coming out. I do enjoy them and have a few stored away but a reasonably priced, moderately modern pattern kit could be a big seller.

Please let us know when you have something available. If it meets these wishes I'll be an early customer.

Dave