Lanier 81" Cap 232
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
Well, we're ready to fly. Mother nature is even cooperating...
BUT
My helper's vehicle ISN'T. His van conked out today, so he's tied up for the day working on it. going to try to find another helper AND some good weather later today, or later in the week.
============
In any event, did get test run on the DL-50. Fairly impressed, so far. Wasn't at all difficult to start, seemed to pull quite strong, and didn't have to touch the needles...really looking forward to seeing how it performs.
Plane came out about 1/4" forward of the specified CG, which is probably a good thing from everything I've read. Final all-up RTF weight is 14lb 3.2oz.
Maiden report coming when it happens.
BUT
My helper's vehicle ISN'T. His van conked out today, so he's tied up for the day working on it. going to try to find another helper AND some good weather later today, or later in the week.
============
In any event, did get test run on the DL-50. Fairly impressed, so far. Wasn't at all difficult to start, seemed to pull quite strong, and didn't have to touch the needles...really looking forward to seeing how it performs.
Plane came out about 1/4" forward of the specified CG, which is probably a good thing from everything I've read. Final all-up RTF weight is 14lb 3.2oz.
Maiden report coming when it happens.
#52
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
Figured I ought to tell a bit of a story on myself here...if it serves as a "warning" for someone else building this kit, great. I suspect, however, its only purpose will be to provide a reason to laugh at me.
As those who know me will affirm, I'm NOTORIOUS for fairly sloppy installations of radio gear and guts. It's a part of the process I absolutely HATE doing, and I don't do it well. Frustration sets in fairly quickly, and my airplanes usually wind up with wires/batteries/fuel lines/etc running any which way. "Meh, good enough" is my motto when it comes to that stuff.
It's an "issue" I've been working on though, so to speak. The Bulldog...while not well done...showed at least SOME thought and patience...and the big Mustang (that got shelved for this project) is going to require immaculate work. So, I thought perhaps the ole Cap would be good candidate for trying to push myself a bit in that area.
Soooooooo....
Spent 2 HOURS a couple days ago routing everything, planning out the tray for the rudder servo, power system, etc, trying different ways to mount stuff, checking, double checking, and triple checking to make sure I had feeder and chaser lines for EVERYTHING before covering...the whole thing.
And it all worked SO well. Wound up with the tank moved back, so the rear of the tank met the front of the tray right above the wing tube. Routed all of the cables very nicely, through various channels/tubes/etc I had carefully planned out. Finished running all the wires this morning, and used zip ties in strategic locations. When it was all said and done, the servo/power tray was PERFECT...a job even a pro would have been proud of. Wires were very neatly routed, fuel lines right where they belong, everything. It was SO attractive it was almost a shame to cover it with a canopy.
Then I tried to put the wings on...
And realized, of course, that my GORGEOUS tray and tank....COMPLETELY prohibited ANY access to the wing bolts.
As those who know me will affirm, I'm NOTORIOUS for fairly sloppy installations of radio gear and guts. It's a part of the process I absolutely HATE doing, and I don't do it well. Frustration sets in fairly quickly, and my airplanes usually wind up with wires/batteries/fuel lines/etc running any which way. "Meh, good enough" is my motto when it comes to that stuff.
It's an "issue" I've been working on though, so to speak. The Bulldog...while not well done...showed at least SOME thought and patience...and the big Mustang (that got shelved for this project) is going to require immaculate work. So, I thought perhaps the ole Cap would be good candidate for trying to push myself a bit in that area.
Soooooooo....
Spent 2 HOURS a couple days ago routing everything, planning out the tray for the rudder servo, power system, etc, trying different ways to mount stuff, checking, double checking, and triple checking to make sure I had feeder and chaser lines for EVERYTHING before covering...the whole thing.
And it all worked SO well. Wound up with the tank moved back, so the rear of the tank met the front of the tray right above the wing tube. Routed all of the cables very nicely, through various channels/tubes/etc I had carefully planned out. Finished running all the wires this morning, and used zip ties in strategic locations. When it was all said and done, the servo/power tray was PERFECT...a job even a pro would have been proud of. Wires were very neatly routed, fuel lines right where they belong, everything. It was SO attractive it was almost a shame to cover it with a canopy.
Then I tried to put the wings on...
And realized, of course, that my GORGEOUS tray and tank....COMPLETELY prohibited ANY access to the wing bolts.
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
ORIGINAL: gboulton
And realized, of course, that my GORGEOUS tray and tank....COMPLETELY prohibited ANY access to the wing bolts.
And realized, of course, that my GORGEOUS tray and tank....COMPLETELY prohibited ANY access to the wing bolts.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's a good one Gordon! VERY believable! [X(] I was going to comment on the time frame of like two hours you allowed for the list to finish your plane up today. I've spent 2 hrs before just mounting a darn ignition! LOL Took me one hour to mount an on off switch for a H9 Funtana X 100. I guess I'm just slow.
#54
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
ORIGINAL: Nogyro
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's a good one Gordon! VERY believable! [X(] I was going to comment on the time frame of like two hours you allowed for the list to finish your plane up today. I've spent 2 hrs before just mounting a darn ignition! LOL Took me one hour to mount an on off switch for a H9 Funtana X 100. I guess I'm just slow.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's a good one Gordon! VERY believable! [X(] I was going to comment on the time frame of like two hours you allowed for the list to finish your plane up today. I've spent 2 hrs before just mounting a darn ignition! LOL Took me one hour to mount an on off switch for a H9 Funtana X 100. I guess I'm just slow.
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
Well, BAH.
Despite my better judgment, I decided the 1/4" TE stock on wings/stabs would be "enough" for the hinges. That proved fatal.
Plane lifted off, flew like an absolute DREAM...really was looking forward to getting to know her. Then the right aileron parted company with the airplane, at a "kinda low" altitude. Chopped throttle out of instinct, plane slowed quicker than I expected, and rolled ever so gently off to the right, on to her back, and I simply didn't have the time to get her back.
Ah well...all the expensive stuff survived, and I MIGHT do the work to fix her up...have to take an extended look at her today or tomorrow to see.
Despite my better judgment, I decided the 1/4" TE stock on wings/stabs would be "enough" for the hinges. That proved fatal.
Plane lifted off, flew like an absolute DREAM...really was looking forward to getting to know her. Then the right aileron parted company with the airplane, at a "kinda low" altitude. Chopped throttle out of instinct, plane slowed quicker than I expected, and rolled ever so gently off to the right, on to her back, and I simply didn't have the time to get her back.
Ah well...all the expensive stuff survived, and I MIGHT do the work to fix her up...have to take an extended look at her today or tomorrow to see.
#57
RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
Gordon,
I am with you on the near loss. You really built a very nice CAP.
Could you post the forensic report of what actually failed? Was it the number of hinges, the glue between TE stock and foam, type of hinge, etc?
I am with you on the near loss. You really built a very nice CAP.
Could you post the forensic report of what actually failed? Was it the number of hinges, the glue between TE stock and foam, type of hinge, etc?
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
Very simple...the 1/4" TE stock simply wasn't enough surface for the hinges to bond to effectively with epoxy alone. If I'd used some of the expanding glue, put in hard points behind the hinges, used thicker TE stock...any of those would have prevented the problem. For that matter, some of the heavy duty CA hinges probably would have been ok.
Just one of those "shoulda trusted my instincts" moments.
Just one of those "shoulda trusted my instincts" moments.
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
man that sucks..
Did you use robarts?
Looks like I'll need to remember to add 2 - 1/2"x3" sheets of contest balsa to the wood order. extra $10..
Did you use robarts?
Looks like I'll need to remember to add 2 - 1/2"x3" sheets of contest balsa to the wood order. extra $10..
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
Yes, I used Robarts. It's obvious from looking at the right aileron (with all 5 hinges still securely attached to it, sticking out) that the hinges didn't fail. It was strictly a function of me being "sparse" with the epoxy, and thus not getting a significant bond on only a 1/4" TE. As I said before, I suspect if I'd done ANY of the following:
1) Used LOTS of epoxy, letting a good bit be pushed toward the "opening" as the hinges were inserted...thus saturating the TE stock
or
2) Put hardpoints in front of the TE for the hinge holes (the best option imo)
or
3) Replaced the TE stock with 1/2" or 3/4" like the LE stock on the surfaces
or
4) Used Radio South's giant scale CA hinges
then things would have been fine. Personally, I'd go with #2, as it doesn't add much weight, doesn't take long, and doesn't have the hassle of trying to wick foam-safe CA like #4 would.
As for the wings, the left one survived....a testimony to its strength, imo. The impact was enough to bend the STOCK wing tube, AND put a 1/4" dent in the back of the DL-50's exhaust...and it STILL survived. The right one broke up on impact, as the plane hit on its right wing-tip and nose. An examination of the right wing shows that, despite what must have been some significant forces on it (the servo was ripped out, the screws pulling out of the hardwood mount rails), it did NOT break in flight. An "impact break" is relatively "clean"...that is, there's a definite line where it broke, and the balsa sheeting will be snapped along that line. Had it broken in flight, the sheeting would be more "delaminated", or pulled away from the foam...meaning that the break line of the sheeting would be some distance away from the foam's break line...there is no evidence of that, nor did I see anything in flight that led me to believe the wing was damaged prior to impact.
As for building another one, probably not. As I'd said earlier...I've never had a burning desire for a Cap (don't DISLIKE them at all...just never really said "gee, I must have one". This one was strictly a function of having most of the radio gear on hand, and the kit being so cheap. Admittedly, at $110 for another kit, and another $70 for CG balsa, it MIGHT just be too cheap to pass up AGAIN. We'll see.
I'll say this...built light, the thing DID fly wonderfully well...it really did feel, for that short period, like I was going to absolutely love the plane. obviously, no way of knowing what I'd have thought once i got aggressive with, but I have a hunch it would have become one of my favorite airplanes.
In any event, whenever you're ready to start building, sscherin, let me know. I'll still be happy to send those skin templates along.
1) Used LOTS of epoxy, letting a good bit be pushed toward the "opening" as the hinges were inserted...thus saturating the TE stock
or
2) Put hardpoints in front of the TE for the hinge holes (the best option imo)
or
3) Replaced the TE stock with 1/2" or 3/4" like the LE stock on the surfaces
or
4) Used Radio South's giant scale CA hinges
then things would have been fine. Personally, I'd go with #2, as it doesn't add much weight, doesn't take long, and doesn't have the hassle of trying to wick foam-safe CA like #4 would.
As for the wings, the left one survived....a testimony to its strength, imo. The impact was enough to bend the STOCK wing tube, AND put a 1/4" dent in the back of the DL-50's exhaust...and it STILL survived. The right one broke up on impact, as the plane hit on its right wing-tip and nose. An examination of the right wing shows that, despite what must have been some significant forces on it (the servo was ripped out, the screws pulling out of the hardwood mount rails), it did NOT break in flight. An "impact break" is relatively "clean"...that is, there's a definite line where it broke, and the balsa sheeting will be snapped along that line. Had it broken in flight, the sheeting would be more "delaminated", or pulled away from the foam...meaning that the break line of the sheeting would be some distance away from the foam's break line...there is no evidence of that, nor did I see anything in flight that led me to believe the wing was damaged prior to impact.
As for building another one, probably not. As I'd said earlier...I've never had a burning desire for a Cap (don't DISLIKE them at all...just never really said "gee, I must have one". This one was strictly a function of having most of the radio gear on hand, and the kit being so cheap. Admittedly, at $110 for another kit, and another $70 for CG balsa, it MIGHT just be too cheap to pass up AGAIN. We'll see.
I'll say this...built light, the thing DID fly wonderfully well...it really did feel, for that short period, like I was going to absolutely love the plane. obviously, no way of knowing what I'd have thought once i got aggressive with, but I have a hunch it would have become one of my favorite airplanes.
In any event, whenever you're ready to start building, sscherin, let me know. I'll still be happy to send those skin templates along.
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
I'd be happy to get those templates.. I'll get in touch after I get through this move.. 15 days and counting..
Quick question.. was that 14lb weight with the stock wing tube or the CF tube?
Quick question.. was that 14lb weight with the stock wing tube or the CF tube?
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RE: Lanier 81" Cap 232
ORIGINAL: sscherin
I'd be happy to get those templates.. I'll get in touch after I get through this move.. 15 days and counting..
I'd be happy to get those templates.. I'll get in touch after I get through this move.. 15 days and counting..
Quick question.. was that 14lb weight with the stock wing tube or the CF tube?
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RE: Lanier 81
Hmm time to wake the dead thread for a question..
After a 2 year building hiatus I'm finally back to building again..After I wrap up my Citabria I'll be ready to start on the CAP..
SO a quick question..
TBM has 1.25" Carbon wing tubes on sale for $32..
The cap takes a 1" tube so there will be some work to enlarge the existing holes in the wing cores and parts..
Anyone think it's worth the effort?
Hmm I also just found 1" tubes from Cheif's for $40.. So many choices..
After a 2 year building hiatus I'm finally back to building again..After I wrap up my Citabria I'll be ready to start on the CAP..
SO a quick question..
TBM has 1.25" Carbon wing tubes on sale for $32..
The cap takes a 1" tube so there will be some work to enlarge the existing holes in the wing cores and parts..
Anyone think it's worth the effort?
Hmm I also just found 1" tubes from Cheif's for $40.. So many choices..
#65
RE: Lanier 81
Buy a tube that fits the wing. Enlarging the holes in the wing cores would be a nightmare to get them straight and lined up perfectly. You most likely wouldn't get it perfect and then you'd be mixing up a slurry of epoxy and microballoons to fill in the gaps. Extra weight and not good building practices IMO.
Don't do it. Get a tube that fits the cores and phenolic tubes you have on hand.
The $8 extra cost for the right size tube is worth every penny you'll save in frustration trying to hog out those foam cores.
Don't do it. Get a tube that fits the cores and phenolic tubes you have on hand.
The $8 extra cost for the right size tube is worth every penny you'll save in frustration trying to hog out those foam cores.