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To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Old 10-19-2008, 09:53 PM
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dansdeals3489
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Default To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

I am buying the TF Cessna 182 kit and was wondering how hard and time consuming it would be to fiberglass it. I have never fiberglassed anything, but can paint very well. I would rather paint it than use monocoat. I want to achieve the best result for a beginer builder without having to invest a tremondous amount of time. I know I will devote a lot of time to this project, but like I said I want to achieve the best possible results in covering it.
Old 10-19-2008, 10:03 PM
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DavidAgar
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Glassing can be time consuming, however if done right you can get a nice finish to paint. There are a number of how to threads here on RCU on the art of glassing. Good Luck, Dave
Old 10-20-2008, 12:19 AM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

I was worried about my abilities the first time I glassed. It turned out to be a fairly straight forward process. Take your time, and you should be fine.

Scott
Old 10-20-2008, 04:53 AM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

pick a thread. there are so many out there on how to glass. i went with polycrilic to coat my glass for just the same reason. i was a beginner and water base products tend to be a lot more forgiving. it turned out to be very easy. the painting is a little more involved, however.

david
Old 10-20-2008, 07:23 AM
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eroc144
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

ORIGINAL: dansdeals3489
I am buying the TF Cessna 182 kit and was wondering how hard and time consuming it would be to fiberglass it. I have never fiberglassed anything, but can paint very well. I would rather paint it than use monocoat. I want to achieve the best result for a beginer builder without having to invest a tremondous amount of time. I know I will devote a lot of time to this project, but like I said I want to achieve the best possible results in covering it.
Fiberglass is a superb base for a painted finish and it's one of my favorite finishing methods. Applying the fiberglass itself is easy and there are a variety of methods from which you can choose, but applying the fiberglass is only the first step in getting a smooth, paintable finish. After applying the fiberglass you have to sand it smooth, apply primer to fill the weave, sand, putty any low spots, sand, apply final primer coat, sand. Only then are you ready to think about painting.

If you skip or scrimp on any of the steps the final result will suffer. If the above sounds like a lot of work, then a colored covering film or fabric might be a better choice.

EG
Old 10-20-2008, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Here's a few pics of mine for inspiration. i used 3/4 oz cloth and water based poly. Lots of sanding, priming, and more sanding. added less than 12 oz to the airframe from bare wood to finished with clearcoat. Lot of work, but next time it will be easier.
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Old 10-20-2008, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Glassing, well i didnt do it myself yet not on big scale but i'm starting to gather information and tutorials about it to do it in the future.
here is what i've found:

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...nish/index.htm

the www.airfieldmodels.com site is something to dive into for many hours.

Alex
Old 10-20-2008, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Glassing takes A lot more time then covering but on some planes it is just the only way to go. This year I was talked into glassing using the method taught at Completely Scale RC. It took A bit longer but I did A few different things that I was told to try. I used 1/2 oz glass too. What an outstanding finish!! So much smoother then epoxy and as light as covering. I will be using thiws method from now on, longer but better.
Old 10-20-2008, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

getting back into the hobby a few yrs ago i bought a few arfs to get me back into the air. now i have 2 planes in the painting stage, 3 more projects getting close, 2 restoration projects underway, and bigger projects to come (all will be painted). with this many projects you can afford to take your time. where will i put them all when i'm done? at least i can take some pride in my work when i'm done.

deadeye, it's people like you who help us prove our point. i've seen your photos before and that is a beautifully done project.

david
Old 10-21-2008, 09:04 AM
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savoy
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Go for it. I tried for the first time on my TF P-51 and found it slow but not hard. I was concerned about weight on a 1/7 scale warbird so I did things a little different. 1/2 oz cloth stuck down with Z-Poxy thinned with alchohol. 2-3 coats of water based poly with micro balloons to fill the weave, prime and paint. Approx dry weight of 11# which is not bad for this kit. Looks more scale than plastic film and is much more durable to hanger rash.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:05 PM
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dansdeals3489
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?


ORIGINAL: savoy

Go for it. I tried for the first time on my TF P-51 and found it slow but not hard. I was concerned about weight on a 1/7 scale warbird so I did things a little different. 1/2 oz cloth stuck down with Z-Poxy thinned with alchohol. 2-3 coats of water based poly with micro balloons to fill the weave, prime and paint. Approx dry weight of 11# which is not bad for this kit. Looks more scale than plastic film and is much more durable to hanger rash.
Where do you get waterbased poly at? How thin do you go with the Z-Poxy?
Old 10-21-2008, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Water based Poly should be available at just about any home improvement type store (Lowes, Home Depot), even Wal-mart. Thinning epoxy a lot of times depend on the user and what they prefer, I've seen some people thin 50/50 with rubbing alcohol.
Old 10-21-2008, 01:16 PM
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Deadeye
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

If you are using the epoxy for finishing, don't thin it with ANYTHING. Use as is, or heat it up a little to let it flow better. Heating will speed the cure time.

Thinning with chemicals will result in a never cured situation, maiking a real mess for finishing.
Old 10-21-2008, 01:24 PM
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savoy
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

I heard all the warnings on thinning epoxy after I did mine. Never did have a curing problem but the next project I may just use full strength being carefull to scrap off the excess.
I would have used water based poly on the first coat but have heard of warping problems on 1/16" sheeething.
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:36 PM
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bigtim
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

I have glassed 2 top flight warbirds using the water based poly method they both turned out great I highly recomend reading this thread from tom pierce http://www.tompierce.net/SBD/index.htm he does weight comparisons and goes through his glassing method step by step,his scale detailing is top notch as well.
Old 10-21-2008, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

I recommend glassing if you are going to paint. IMHO its the best surface and can give great results. I currently use Z-poxy straight up and remove excess epoxy with a card. TP rolls also work well for removing epoxy. I have never tried water base poly and don't feel the need to.
Old 10-21-2008, 06:11 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

you put a coat of sanding sealer down 1st before water based poly. it's so easy you can glass with poly blindfolded. sanding is somewhat necessary and even easier than painting the poly on. well brushed poly dries very smooth. for even faster and smoother fill in keep an extra can of poly for adding talcum to.

no mixing, no fumes, no paint thinner or acetone, no product waste due to dried out leftovers, no scrapping or blotting the excess, water rinse your brush and 20 min dry time. oh and cheap too. i'll stick with the poly.

a 60 sized plane (fuse and wing) can be glassed, poly'd and primered by lunch if you are of a mind to.

david
Old 10-21-2008, 06:57 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Like you, I'm a water based poly fan too.

I used to use K&B Super Poxy clear paint for applying fibeglass cloth, but we all know what happened to that some years ago.

I'm glad I switched to water based poly. I haven't had a warping problem yet. I do, however, like the idea of applying a sanding sealer coat. That would prevent any possibility of warping.


Ed Cregger
Old 10-21-2008, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?


ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

Like you, I'm a water based poly fan too.

I used to use K&B Super Poxy clear paint for applying fibeglass cloth, but we all know what happened to that some years ago.

I'm glad I switched to water based poly. I haven't had a warping problem yet. I do, however, like the idea of applying a sanding sealer coat. That would prevent any possibility of warping.


Ed Cregger
Ed,
Klass Kote is supposed to be the same formulation as the old K&B epoxy paint.
Old 10-21-2008, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Klass Kote is A bit different but if you happen to have some K&B part A most the time you can get away with using Klass Kote part B and it works. KK is just like the old K&B in use and just as tough. I don't use the water based poly U, I use the Deft Brushing Laquer but due to the smell and effects to my brain when using it I plan on giving the water based A try next time. This Extra 260 was done using the method from Completely Scale RC then I used Klass Kote two part for color with silver dope for the stripes. So smooth, so light, so strong!!!! Took A lot of time!![&o]
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Klass Kote is A bit different but if you happen to have some K&B part A most the time you can get away with using Klass Kote part B and it works. KK is just like the old K&B in use and just as tough. I don't use the water based poly U, I use the Deft Brushing Laquer but due to the smell and effects to my brain when using it I plan on giving the water based A try next time. This Extra 260 was done using the method from Completely Scale RC then I used Klass Kote two part for color with silver dope for the stripes. So smooth, so light, so strong!!!! Took A lot of time!![&o]
That is a beautiful plane! There is sure a difference in appearance with painting it!
Old 10-21-2008, 10:25 PM
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dansdeals3489
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

Anyway I am interested in waterbased poly. I am assuming we are talking about water based polester resin? It sounds that this is probably the way for me to go with this plane as I can paint a whole heck of a lot better than wrap a present. The finish looks a whole lot more scale too. I am not trying to win any awards with the Top Flite Cessna, I just want it to turn some heads at the field. My club isn't real big into scale airplanes and I think this will turn some heads. So the steps that I am understanding to go with waterbased poly is to seal the wood, apply the fiberglass wet? on the airframe, let it dry and apply more to smooth it out?
Old 10-21-2008, 11:49 PM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?


ORIGINAL: bigtim

I have glassed 2 top flight warbirds using the water based poly method they both turned out great I highly recomend reading this thread from tom pierce http://www.tompierce.net/SBD/index.htm he does weight comparisons and goes through his glassing method step by step,his scale detailing is top notch as well.
dansdeals
I have been working on a Top Flight Sea Fury off and on for several months. In that time, I found out a few things, so i am just passing them on as suggestions.
1. I don't personally know bigtim (see above), but he has helped me, and he knows his stuff (I'm sure most other people do too, but).
2. I played around with e-poxy, Z-poxy, and the poly method (as described in the above link) on scrap material, and for me, the poly method is much better, easier, easier clean up, and doesn't smell.
3. If you can paint, then I would suggest that you try a small amount of the poly on some scrap material. I think you will see what I mean.
4. Check out the link to tom pierce, it will explain everything in detail.
5. Did I say bigtim knows his stuff?
Old 10-22-2008, 04:51 AM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?

no, we are talking about minwax water based polyurethane or polycrilic. after sealer lay the glass on the wing or fuse and dip a foam brush in the poly and start painting. there are a few more details than that, like so many have said goto the tom pierce website. he has step by step instructions on a very cool website. also, i believe the plane on the site was a scale masters winner.

david
Old 10-22-2008, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: To Fiberglass or not to Fiberglass?


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Klass Kote is A bit different but if you happen to have some K&B part A most the time you can get away with using Klass Kote part B and it works. KK is just like the old K&B in use and just as tough. I don't use the water based poly U, I use the Deft Brushing Laquer but due to the smell and effects to my brain when using it I plan on giving the water based A try next time. This Extra 260 was done using the method from Completely Scale RC then I used Klass Kote two part for color with silver dope for the stripes. So smooth, so light, so strong!!!! Took A lot of time!![&o]
Is that a kit? What size? Where did you get it?

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