ramduster

My Feedback: (2)

I need to recover a 1/4 scale cub that I just got and would like to know about how much covering I will need to do the job.[sm=confused.gif]

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Off the top of my head I'd say at least 3 rolls, more like 4

WacoNut

If you use Koverall you will need 1 large package and 1 small package.

Jacque

My Feedback: (22)

I would certainly use fabric. Cubs don't look right in plastic.

ramduster

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks that is just what I needed to know. I may use the fabric covering but I hope to keep cost down.

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

Anyone think that one 15' roll of covering would do it? The tail group is already covered.

Thanks,
Mike

CK1

My Feedback: (60)

I don't believe you will be able to cover it with a 15' roll .
I use a 10 meter roll of Solartex and have almost no leftovers when covering a Sig 1/4 scale J3 . All cuts must be laid out for the best use of material or you will need more than 10 meters.
10 meters = 32 feet (roughly).

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks CK1. I'll have to order 2 rolls.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I'm thinking 6 rolls, if using ultracoat. 4 for the wings, 2 for the fuse and tail.
Edwin

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

I plan to use Coverite 21st Century Fabric so I won't have to add weight painting it. Comes in 15 foot rolls. Think I need two rolls?

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I have a 1/4 scale Nosen champ covered in that stuff, I bought it at an estate sale. Its pretty grimey and hard to clean. I'm gonna strip it eventually and recover with Ultracoat. Two 15' rolls should do it with excess left over. My stearman is covered in sig koverall painted with warbird colors paint. Not too bad in cleaning as long as you dont have the black goo coming out of the gas engine. Stihl ultra synthetic helped me with that problem.
Edwin

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

I'm all electric these days. Even the big stuff. Just too clean and easy on the airframes to go back to wet fuel.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

Then you're good. I've never used coverite myself, so cant comment on how it goes on. I have used solartex, love it. Sticks real good and if you make a mistake, you can lift it and restick it back down. Also has good shrinkage. Balsa USA sells it in 2, 5, and 10 meter rolls. Its a little heavier than a mylar covering, dont know how it compares to coverite as far as weight. A 1/4 scale cub is generally about 108" wingspan with about a 16" cord (just guessing off the top of my head). I have three busa 1/4 scale cubs, a nosen champ, and a nosen mulligan. I figure two 10 meter rolls should about do it. You might consider a 2 meter roll to cover the tail section first.
Edwin

ARUP

Coverite is nice stuff. Koverall is much lighter for dope paint weighs nothing. The Cub can handle it, though! There was a Cub that rolled off the factory line painted black with cream trim. That would be a very stable app with Koverall but not Coverite.

Zor

Hi folks,

Full size airplanes do not use shrinking stuff.
They use fabric and dope.

I do the same with Ceconite, the lightest one, and these days I use Randolph dope.
Both are available from suppliers to aircraft refinishers.

Have fun finishing a model with a covering that will last for decades and will never wrinkle.

Zor

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

Good info fellas, thanks.

Zor Are you saying that you use Definite on your models?

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry about that. I meant Ceconite not definite. My darn phone auto-corrects too much!

Zor

CarreraGTSCS,

Yes I said that I cover mymodel airplanes with ligh wight Ceconite and genuine aircarft dope.
These days I use Randolph dope from a supplier of full size airplane refinishers.

The extra work compared to the shrink stuff is well worth it.
I have models that are 50 years old without wrinkles and tight as a drum.

I like building as a hobby and enjoy the extra work which is really not that much and no need to fiddle with irons and wrinkles or edges that keep lifting when the model happens to be in a hot sun.
Full size airplanes tied down at an airport are in full sun everyday the sun is shining and do not wrinkle.
I have thousands of hours flying full size airplanes. I would not fly one covered (finished) with heat shrinking plastic.

It is a choice. I am not criticizing anyone that uses plastic film.
To each his/her own choice.

Zor

CarreraGTSCS

My Feedback: (2)

I looked up Ceconite light 1.7oz cloth. Looks nice and priced right too. What's the process for using it?

Zor

Go here and follow the links for Randolph.

Then follow the link for the 101 procedure manual.

http://ceconite.com/

Zor

TripleDeucer

My Feedback: (129)

Zor, Do you use glow fuel or gasoline powered engines? If glow, how do you fuelproof the dope finish?

Zor

Hello TripleDeucer,

Nice to read you.

The following may bother some fellows that seek disagreements.
The following is from my 50 plus years of using tissue and dope and fabric and dope.

Two formulations of dope; nitrate and butyrate.
Nitrate is not considered fuel proof but is always covered by butyrate. Should never be the other way.
Never apply nirate over butyrate. Always apply butyrate over nitrate.

The nitrate dope is an excellent adhesive for the fabric to the wood. after initial application it can be mixed with talc to help fill up the fabric thickness is desired. I seldom use the talc as I prefer a fabric looking finish like on the full size airplanes.

Butyrate dope is the best finish against glow fuel. Yes I use glow fuel mainly Morgan Cool Power with 15 %.

Thecoats of butyrate must avoid pin holes during the curing. Dope cures very rapidly and in hot and humid weather pin holes may develop and allow the glow fuel residues from the muffler to penetrate underneath. In such conditions the surface finish avoids pin holes by using a "reducer" which slows down the curing process.

Pin holes may develop due to thedope solvent quickly boiling and forming little bubbles finding their way to the surface. The reducer prevents the dope from acting like a refrigerant (boiling).
There is no such problems working up to 80 degrees fahrenheit and 70% humidity. No reducer needed in such conditions.

Some fellows may claim that epoxy is a better fuel proofer.
I do not disagree but there is a worst situation with epoxy beside being heavier.
Epoxy has to be thinned to be applied and often acetone is used for thinning.
The acetone becomes the reason for the epoxy finish to be full of pin holes as it boils out.

Conclusion ___
Some old models that have flown a lot over the decades are still in excellent wood condition and strength being protected in the engine and fuel tank compartments with butyrate dope.

Any disagreements are welcome.

Zor

TripleDeucer

My Feedback: (129)

This may not be the proper place for this discussion. I am not looking for a place to disagree, but for some answers to my problem.
I finished my Cub with the Randolph butyrate dope and got a fantastic finish until the glow fuel hit it. I have an OS 1.60 FS twin for power and that doubles the oil residue on each side and bottom of the plane. I noticed right away the finish was coming off on my cleaning rags. I cleaned it with soap and water and applied a clear polyurathane to the underside which was good until I got some raw fuel from the tank filling process running down the bottom. It now looks like grannys wrinkled hose on the bottom for 20" back from the firewall.. I will have to strip the bottom side to repaint and then my only recoarse is to switch engines to gasoline power, which I didn't want to do. I like the scale sound of the four stroke twin.
I asked one oldtimer how they kept the finish on the planes in the old days of nothing but dope finishes. He said they didn't last long enough to worry about that. Anyway, your explanation of pinholes in the finish may be the culprit, but I see none. The painting was done indoors in the winter, so I didn't notice a fast dry situation. You also talk of butyrate in the fuel tank area. It didn't wrinkle up?
I talked with the Randolph rep on the phone and he said there was no way to have a bad batch of paint from them as their mixing was all computer controled. The airport dealer was really suprised by his answer.
Any idea's?

Rodney

TripleDucer, are you sure you used Butyrate on those last coats? I have never had butyrate give me those type of problems. I have found I get much better results with epoxy paints than with dope and it works for both glow fuel with high nitro content as well as gasoline plus the finish is much more durable against scratches and heavy wear. Klass Cote is excellent although quite expensive. You can even brush it on and not have any brush marks and no thinning is required. Coverage is super good, usually one coat will suffice. The Class Cote is well worth the extra cost.

TripleDeucer

My Feedback: (129)

Rodney, that is exactly one of the questions I had for the Randolph rep, as maybe they miss labeled some nitrate with butyrate labels. Said no way and never offered any other help as to why I had problems with it.
I have a cupboard full of K&B epoxy, but was looking for the full scale finish. I started the job with nitrate and then switched to butyrate clear to seal the Koverall cloth. I put the nitrate away so as not to get it by mistake. Then followed up with the silver coat, white base coat and then the yellow. Everything turned out perfect and I was very happy until the first cleanup.