gareth08

Hi

Have just bought a Flair Baronette kit. This is the first model i have built from scratch, all others i have biult have been ARTF kits apart form a shuttle plus helicopter.

The instructions so far are a bit sketchy, but i suppose they are assuming that you have a bit of experience. The plans are fairly easy to get my head round so far (as of yet!!!! ) I was wondering has anyone built one of these or seen one fly - and what do you think.

ANY BUILDING TIPS?? - Go easy on me i'm a total rookie to this building stuff.

Also, what is the best glue to use on balsa. I have both 30 minute epoxy and a glue i was recommeded at the model shop - 'FLAIR Aliphatic modellers glue' - any preferences?

Cheers

Gareth.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Gareth:

Welcome to the world of kits.

There will always be someone here for specific questions, and for the more popular kits there will be hints.

Almost any aliphatic glue will do very well for assembly, sve the epoxy for the really high stress joints. I've never used the Flair branded glue, my personal favorite is Pice Glu It.

The biggest disadvantage to the epoxies and CA glues is their resistance to sanding - they are much harder than the wood. With care they can be sanded, but the "White" glues sand very well.

Hope this is enough for the moment, enjoy your kit.

Bill.

PS: "Scratch" building is when you do it ALL, you have the original idea, you draw the plans, and so forth. wr.

susquach

My Feedback: (1)

Gareth,

If I may add to what william said: A method that I learned a long time ago from a luthier friend is to use flooring sand paper to "cut " down glue joints. It works great and slices right through all glues including CA. In fact I think it particularly like to cut through CA. It is aggrresive though so mind what you are doing! Like anything else, the more you use it, the more accustomed you become to handling it. I think it comes in 60 and 100 grit. Have used both grits ( mounted on a 3x6 piece of plywood) and as you might expect, the 100 is more apprpriate for balsa wood. Using the paper will save a lot of "elbow grease" and has the added benefit of leveling the surrounding balsa at about the same rate as the glue joint. Give the stuff a try, I'm betting you'll find a spot on your workbench for it.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

WW:

Hiow many people do you expect to know what a "Luthier" is?

Using rare words makes you steatopygious. You should bear that in mind.

Haw.

Bill.

gareth08

OK guys

Thanks for the help. I'm sure i'll have about a thousand new questions within about 5 minutes of starting to build!! I'll give both of the glues a go i think. Gives me a piece of mind using the epoxy as it's never good when wings start flailing apart after take off !!

I have just got a few pieces of sandpaper from the hardware store, so i'll give it a bash and see how it all goes. (Saves me having to go fire up the blow torch to get the epoxy out!!! )

Oh yeah one more question already. The central section sheeting for the top wing appears to me to come in a set of a dozen square sheets of balsa. However the sheeting will not reach from the leading to the trailing edge in one section. Do i cut down the other sheets and butt glue them to the others to cover the whole transverse section or am i missing something. I know this might sound stupid, but as i said i am a rookie!!

Finally - any good tips on how to make a good scarf joint for the wing spars?

Thanks for the input so far!!

susquach

My Feedback: (1)

gareth,

sorry to go back over the sandpaper thing, but an important distinction I failed to make is that the the paper mentioned is black in color and is sold here by the running foot. Another thing worth mentioning is that this stuff is really economical. One 3x6 piece ought to be enough to handle almost all the course sanding and shaping on a .60 size plane. A lot of info about sandpaper, but as you build your plane, notice how much time is spent sanding.

gareth08

Thanks. Go over it all as much as you like, the more i learn about this stuff the better. I'm not much of a builder as yet, so i am planning to take my time over this and do it right.

The sand paper i got was dirt cheap and is a mustard colour. It's very fine and seems to do the job great with balsa, leaves it with a very smooth finish, so as long as it doesn't start scraping chunks out of the wood, it should be fine.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Gareth:

Somewhere in your instructions you will be told to plank the center section by fitting shorter pieces of balsa with the grain running spanwise.

You can cut the pieces, butt glue them, and then use one large sheet to plank it, or they can be cut and glued individually.

HTH.

Bill.

tmproff

My Feedback: (5)

One trick I've used when creating wing sheeting, is to
1. lay down a piece of wax paper on a very flat surface.
2. Butt the two pieces of balsa sheeting together,
3. then use thin CA to "wick" (soak into) the pieces together.
4. After it dries, you can lightly sand the balsa sheet

Try to use as little CA as possible, only enough to fill in the gap between the 2 pieces. If you use too much, you'll have a painfully hard time sanding later on.

Good luck!

gareth08

So far so good. Have built up the majority of the top wing. Used the epoxy for the spar and leading edge joins and wood glue for the ribs and CA for everything else.

Sheeting worked out well. Haven't noticed any warps yet. One of the spars has a tiny little wobble in it, where the ribs have been cut slightly short, so they are pulling it back a bit. Shouldn't cause a problem though, it really is tiny.

I think i will have all my hair torn out by the time i finish the other two wings never mind the fuselage.

Really opens yours eyes to how much work this building malarky is!!! ARTF is a doddle in comparison

Thanks for the help, will get back when i get stuck again (shouldn't be long!)

grahamd1

My Feedback: (1)

Gareth check your PM's, I've sent you a message

gareth08

Thanks for the link, will give it a go. Cheers!

Gareth

Hanger Rat

Flair is a very good company and their kits are tops. I have built a few of them. If you are new to kit building keep one thing in mind, build LIGHT, I think you said you used epoxy when building the wing. The only place that needs epoxy on the wing is the dihedral brace and the dowels if you have them. Flair kits fly well but be sure to balance the plane when its finished. Good Luck

ejohn-RCU

I, too, am interested in the Flair Baronette. Has anyone actually built this kit and flown it? I would be interested in the problems of take-offs and landings which I believe there would be. Any comments?

ejohn

Lukepiestalker

Gareth
If you haven’t already got one, buy yourself a razor plane. They’re very cheap; it will save a lot of sanding, plus less dust for to you clean up and breathe in.
Ejohn
The Flair Baronette is all wings and no fin, which can result in a lot off ground looping. One of the ways to lesson this problem is to modify the undercarriage, make a solid axle( Mount the axle in a brass tube). Solder the brass tube to the undercarriage struts (wire). Slide the axle wire through the brass tube. Then glue the wheels to the axle wire. This means the wheels can’t turn independently of one another and will help in keeping the model tracking straight on take-off.

Hope this helps Colin.

ejohn-RCU

Colin:

Thanks for the reply on the Baronette and a reasonable cure for take-off problems. What about landing this airplane? Anything in particular to watch out for, ie. landing speed, wheel or three point landing, etc. Thanks.

ejohn

Balsa

Sweet , sweet irony.

Oh and its spelt minus the "I" thus ,steatopygous

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Balsa:

You're right; I misspelled it.

Now try "Retromingent."

That's me when someone claims to have "Built" an ARF, or claims to have scratch built from someone else's plans.

Bill.

PS: For those who weren't as industrious as Balsa in finding the definition, "Steatopygous" means "Having prominent buttocks." I use it to mean "Showing one's ass." wr.

Balsa

old lady c*nt? ie. retro-minge?

no?

ah well, just for the crack eh.

Paul

[EDIT]: after securing the true meaning of Retromingent, i find it hard to see how pissing like a woman has anything to do with your dismay at those so called "ARTF'ers".

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Balsa:

Not like a woman, the meaning is urinating in reverse, as for example, like a tomcat.

Usage is similar to "Pissing in the wind," or a seemingly useless argument.

Bill.

PS: What reference do you have to get that word so quickly? Last man I used it on had to send his secretary to the city's public library to find it. wr.

Hanger Rat

William, The phrase "Pissing in the wind is wrong. It should be "Pissing into the wind" It is plain to see that you are not a sailboat man. Incidentally it is not an argument it is a saying. Another one that I like is " I could care less" Which I am sure you learned gentlemen will know it should be "couldn't care less".
American is not my native tongue, born and raised in England so I am amused when someone says something and means the exact opposite. I don't know nothing or It don't mean nothing to me. The other day I heard a newscaster of all people when referring to a man who was found dead said he sucamed to a heart attack. I thought that one was very amusing though I suspect the victim had a differing view. ( Some people have no sense of humor)
But anyway gentlemen keep up the good work, I for one find it very informative. Even though you tend to be a little on the pedantic side it's fun. I bet the gentleman who started this thread by asking for advice on a Flair kit never envisioned the rewards he would reap.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Hanger Rat:

Caught once more!

Sorry if I sound pedantic, but my college minor was training to be a pedagogue.

Major was languages.

Bill.

Balsa

I know, my answer was a complete *******isation and an attempt at a joke. Poor wasn't it?

aaaanyway i used a dictionary, i know stupendous isn't it? one of those book thingies.

Paul

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Balsa:

Must be a real monster of an unabridged dictionarty.

Most that call themselves unabridged don't have either word.

And I'm sorry I missed your joke.

Bill.

Balsa

Yes, tis' quite a large one, 3000+ Pages......the only word i did know was Luthier. Poor uneducated me

Paul