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Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

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Old 06-08-2009, 10:18 AM
  #26  
squeakalong
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Hi, SeamusG!  

WOWWWWW!!! That was fast!  Thanks so much for your assistance on this as I've flown a few of the Bridi designs but have never built one over these many years.  And seeing as I love to "build from scratch" this is right up my alley.  A huge "tip 'o the hat" to you, my friend.

Joe
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:21 AM
  #27  
SeamusG
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Thks Joe - Did you get my email?
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:43 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Yes I did; inbound email response.  Thanks again!

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:39 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

I finally cleared the bench of "other" projects. One was refitting my trainer Avistar so that it would be a better candidate for training students on a buddy box. What the heck, if I can instruct it must mean I can fly.

I started the Killer Chaos (KC) build today.

The first thing I did was to cut up the plans isolating the fuse top view, fuse side view and wing top view. The I set up my board with a magnetic board that I recently bought at an auction. Never used it before - should be interesting. It's the one that Great Planes adopted and sells spare parts for. Those little 'ole magnets are way stouter than pins - I am truly amazed.

I then fabricated my wing jig. I purchased 2 1/4" x 36" wire at my LHS. I scrounged around the basement and found what I think is MDF baseboard molding - end section being rectangular and the dimensions are very accurate. I cut up 3 sections each around 9" long. I was planning to use strips of aluminum cans as straps but I found 6 what I think are 1/4" ID cable straps with wood screws. I set up the cable straps (2 for each piece of molding) so that the centerline of each was on a 5 1/2" center - same as the center-to-center measurement of the rib alignment holes.

Pic 1 - alignment lines on molding
Pic 2 - verify lines with rib alignment holes
Pic 3 - closeup of the cable straps and screw
Pic 4 - holes drilled in supports
Pic 5 - supports assembled w/ screws loose
Pic 6 - rib set, jib and 1/4" rods
Pic 7 - magnetic board with wing plane "pinned"
Pic 8 - center lines scribed on each rib
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:06 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

I'm building a tail dragger. In preparation for building the wing I need to fabricate rib tip doublers to support the hardwood landing gear mounts. I outlined the tips of ribs 3 and 4 (counting from the root) on 1/8" aircraft plywood. It was off to the band saw and jig saw to rough cut the pieces. 1/4" alignment holes were drilled in each so that I could firmly mate the rib and the doubler together. a 1/4" drill bit works great inserted in the guide holes. It was then the old iteration of "mark the rib outline on the doubler" and "sand the doubler to the outline" cycle. I also test fitted the landing gear hardwood mount and the main spar to ensure a good fit. I did this cycle 10 to 15 times for each doubler - I'm a perfectionist (darn it!!!).

After all 4 doublers were fabricated I glued them to the ribs using Titebond! Arg! I recognized my mistake (wanted to use epoxy) and tried to separate them. The doublers were in fine condition but the ribs took a beating. Sooooo, it was off to my LHS for some 1/8" balsa sheet. While I was at it I decided to get pieces of harder balsa sheeting (on the recommendation of my LHS owner - an excellent builder) because the are supporting the main landing gear and a bit of additional structure can't hurt.

I then fabricated 2 sets of ribs 3 & 4. I used the original pieces as templates, scribed the outlines on the balsa then it was off to the jig & band saws. I drilled the jig holes with a cordless drill and Harry Higley's drill guide (works beautifully). I cut up 4 short pieces of 1/4" dowel and pinned the original and 2 new ribs together (2 packages - one for rib 3 and the other for rib 4). I then used sanding blocks with 80 and 150 grit to get the new ribs spot on. After the ribs were finished I added the doublers to each package. I could then make sure that all of the spar cutouts and landing gear cutouts were identical and accurately fit.

The ribs & doublers were then glued with 30 minute epoxy. I used q-tips dipped in alcohol to clean up excess epoxy from the alignment holes and the edges. Too bad I blew it with Titebond - cost me a couple of hours.

Back to the board.

I threaded all of the ribs onto the jig. Ribs 1 thru 6 left of the center support and ribs 7 thru 11 to the right of the center support. There is very little wiggle room so great care was exercised to slide each rib down the rods. Patience - something I have very little of.

Current state, the ribs are positioned on the jig. The top main spar has been dry fitted. I noticed that even though these are laser cut ribs the leading edge and trailing edges will need to be flush sanded to make for a tidy fit of leading & trailing edge balsa stock.

Pic 1 - rough cut doublers
Pic 2 - doubler pinned to rib with drill bit & landing gear mount for fitting
Pic 3 - colorful Titebond glue up (drat! - it looked so good)
Pic 4 - the stack of original rib, 2 new ribs & 2 doublers all pinned together for final shaping (using hardwood dowels)
Pic 5 - end view of the stack
Pic 6 - overkill - yet another view
Pic 7 - all ribs roughly aligned on the jig from the root rib perspective
Pic 8 - closeup of the doubled ribs 3 & 4 on the jig
Pic 9 - view of ribs from the tip rib perspective

Btw, let me know if you want a picture of the Higley drilling jig ...

TTFN,
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:31 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

OS .91FS without pump. For some reason the Kaos tank location just seems to line up perfect for every engine I have had in this plane, no pump required. At one point in it's life it was used for just breaking in engines then about 8 years ago I started flying it all the time again. The .91 found itself a home here! Great combo.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:08 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

I modified the rod supports on the jig. The method I used put the rods at 2 1/2" above the work surface. That left the bottom edge of the ribs at least 1 3/4" from the surface - pretty tough to secure them in alignment. Also, there was just enough tension on the ribs holes that any movement might result in breaking the ribs - not a good thing.

To resolve both problems I drilled holes at a height of 1 1/4". This leaves the bottom edge of the ribs within 1/4" from the surface. Slots were cut from the top edge to the edges of the outer edges of the holes allowing easy removal / installation of the rods with ribs installed - thinking about when I need to flip the wing over. There is very little tension between the rib holes and the rods. Makes positioning much easier.

TTFN,

And, of course, Ihad to cut down the material across the top so that I could fit the main spar. But you already knew that.

3rd time is the charm!

Pic 4 &6 - shows the root &tip support with a flat hardwood clamps that keep the rod tight to the supports.
Pic 5 - shows the center support trimmed flat so that it cannot influence the lateral location of the rods yet provides vertical support.



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Old 06-27-2009, 09:58 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Now that the jig is "ready" - time to see if it works. [:@]

I threaded the ribs onto the rods makin' sure that the #3 & #4 have the landing gear reliefs pointing up. Then I checked them again.

Bottom spar - The ribs were positioned close to their plan locations. After fitting the top spar I made sure (again) that the spar would sit in each rib so that it was flush with the top of each rib. Time to glue. I used a square to make sure that the front part of each rib was perpendicular to the board and in corrent position and then thin CA'd the spar to the rib at the front of the spar. I did the same behind the spar. Repeated until all ribs were CA'd to the spar.

Trailing edge (TE) - The trailing edge of the ribs measure 5/16. I decided to pick up 5/16 x 5/16 stock that was harder to replace the original 1/4 x 1/4 stock. The trailing edge was beveled to match the rib profile. I used a 48" aluminum "L" that had #80 grit paper glued (3M 77) to one outside edge. I used a long bar sander to make sure that all rib tips were aligned. The TE was thin CA'd to each rib using a square to make sure that the ribs were perpendicular and were aligned with the plans.

Leading edge (LE) - the leading edge of the ribs were aligned with the sanding bar. Btw, per the plans I had drawn a centerline down the length of each rib and the backside of the LE. The LE was positioned on each rib matching the centerlines, positioned over the plans, and thin CA'd.

Top spar - I flipped the jib, positioned the spar and then thin CA'd the spar to each rib.

Trailing edge sheeting - I thin CA'd the top and bottom sheeting to the TE & ribs.

Landing gear (LG) block - the LG block was positioned & 30-minute epoxy'd to ribs #3 & #4. I made sure that there was enough of the block inside #3 to support the vertical LG block.

Glue Note: I am using aliphatic resin (Titebond) for all sheeting andcap strips. I first prepare each piece being glued with a thin coat ofglue on all contact points (edge of each rib, the sheeting side of theLE & TE, the back side & ends of each cap strip, the top of thespar, etc.). After the glue has pretty much dried (an hour) I make surethat each surface is smooth with #220 paper.

Top LE sheeting - I beveled & trued the 3/32 leading edge sheeting using the "L" sanding block. After pinning to the wing at the LE it's sprayed it with water, weighted it down and let in shape to the wing. I did not trim the sheeting to shape so that the back edge was in the middle of the spar - waiting for it to shape first. I tried using a little steam iron given to me by me LHS owner (expert builder) to help the shaping process with heat. After shaped & trimmed it was glued-n-pinned to the LE, ribs & spar.

Top center sheeting - I joined several pieces of 3/32 sheeting into a single piece. The sheet was trimmed to fit. The sheet, ribs, TE & spar were prep'ed with glue. After glue dried a bit more glue was added and the sheeting was pinned-n-weighted to the wing.

Top cap strips - 8 cap strips were trimmed to fit and pre-glued. After the glue set up they were pinned at the spar and weighted at the TE sheeting making sure that the tip cap strip was flush to the outside edge of the tip rib.

Covering note - I don't plan to use transparent covering. If I did I would have been very careful NOT to have dried yellow AR exposed on the main spar. I did use wet paper towels to make sure all glue joints were clean to make sanding a bit easier.

Pic 1 - ribs, bottom main spar, LE & TE CA'd together
Pic 2 - top spar added & TE sheeting CA'd in place
Pic 3 - clamping the LG block in place.
Pic 4 - steaming the LE sheeting to shape
Pic 5 - pre-glueing the LE sheeting
Pic 6 - LE sheeting glued-n-pinned. A bit more water was added ...
Pic 7 - top center sheet being glued up
Pic 8 - top center sheet trimmed & pre-glued
Pic 9 - top center sheet ribs, spar & TE pre-glued
Pic 10 - top center sheet glued-pinned-n-weighted
Pic 11 - top cap strips fitted-glued-pinned-n-clamped
Pic 12 - top wing finished

Btw - now Ihave to figure out what to do about the dual servo mounts BEFORE Ifinish the bottom of the wing



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Old 06-28-2009, 10:31 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

The aileron servo will be installed just inside the 6th rib (between the 5th and 6th). The servo will be mounted as near the spar as possible. Of course, the big challenge, servo wiring holes need to be cut.

I cut partial rib doublers out of 1/8" balsa sheet using ribs 5 & 6 as templates. The front extends to the front of the spar and the rear just to the 1/4" dowel rods. I fabricated the lateral servo mounts out of 1/8" 5-ply plywood backed with 1/8" balsa. Holes were cut in the doublers providing support for the mounts. The doublers were glued to the ribs with Titebond. The mounts were then mounted across the rib bay with the balsa on the inside. A 1/4" balsa rail running parallel to the servo was fabricated and glued in place. This will be covered with a cap strip. A similar piece of 1/4" balsa was glued to the mount farthest from the spar. It too will be covered with a cap strip. When all cap strips have been installed the servo mounts will be recessed 1/8". This cap strip frame will provide support for the covering.

Time for cutting the servo wire holes. A 16" long wood bit was purchased at Home Depot for about $9. It looks like a standard wood bit but it has what I call "side cutters" that start the hole before the blade starts whacking the wood to bits. Makes for a clean hole. I'm sure that there is a real name for this bit but what the heck. For back support during drilling I used a scrap piece of melamine (wing jib end supports) that fit between the top and bottom spars and was long enough to back the 1/4" dowel hole and extend far enough to be clamped with two clamps. The drill was turned at its slowest speed and rocked gently back-n-forth. As each hole was cut the back support was moved to the next rib. Took about 15 minutes and all 5 holes were cut - little or no sanding needed.

Pic 1 - 1/8" doublers
Pic 2 - doublers w/ mount holes cut
Pic 3 - doublers glued up w/ Titebond
Pic 4 - servo mounts
Pic 5 - servo mounts cut-to-fit and glued
Pic 6 - servo mount and frame finished
Pic 7 - servo poisitioned
Pic 8 - backing wood clamped in place for drilling
Pic 9 - root rib hole cut
Pic 10 - the weapon
Pic 11 - finished holes
Pic 12 - details on the drill and backing wood
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Old 06-28-2009, 02:09 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

looking at photo #9 it doesn't look like you got the top skin in contact with the front part of the rib?

Cheers,
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Old 06-28-2009, 02:31 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Thx for the heads up Tim - just fixed the issue no more that a minute before picking up you post!

Not sure how keen I am on the approach for the leading edge and the leading edge sheeting. Hey - I got a 2nd chance to improve on the approach.

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Old 07-08-2009, 10:50 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

I'm Baaaacccckkkkk ....

Thought I'd post a couple of pics of my balsa sheet paneling approach.

The kit calls for beveling the leading edge of the leading edge sheeting. Ihave a aluminum 48" "L" stock with #100 grit paper on one edge. The "L"stock is clamped to the table with the sand paper side exposed to the inside of the table. Ithen run the sheeting along the paper keeping tension on the table. Result is straight and (relatively)constant bevel.

After assembling the "other"wing and trimming / sanding the roots and tips Irealized that Iforgot to add the trailing edge blocks between the root and adjacent rib BEFOREgluing on the center sheeting. I've never forgot a step before that required a bit of back tracking.

Pics 1 &2 - sanding jig &leading edge sheeting
Pics 3, 4 &5 - assembling the center section sheet panels
Pics 6 & 7 -gluing up the trailing edge blocks (oops)
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:12 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

I don't understand how the single leading edge mounting dowel is installed. Gonna give the Bluejay folks a buzz.

Idid clean up the wings with #80, #150 and then #220 grit paper. Gonna need some filler - mixture of finish resin and micro-balloons.

On to the stab and elevators. The plans give you one side only of the stab. I used the one side to measure and cut all of the parts. After fitting Iapplied thin CAto the top of the butt joints (hope it didn't wick all the way thru 'cause Igot lazy and didn't cover the plans with waxed paper. The elevator halves are very accurately cut and needed no trimming. When notching the elevators to accept the 3/8" dowel "elevator interconnect" I left the cut about 1/16" short so that I could round out the notch to allow for a decent fit with the dowel. After trimming / fitting the elevator &dowel I drilled 1/16" holes in the notch and the dowel to allow for a better mechanical bond between the dowel and the elevators. Some 30 minute epoxy was mixed and applied. Waitin' for it to cure before Ipull the stab off the board so that I can CA the backside of the joints.

Pic 1 - sanded wing halves (great use for a clothes washer)
Pic 2 - stab components fitted to plans
Pic 3 &4 - a drill-driven sanding dowel with 220# grit paper to cut notch
Pic 5 - stab has been CA'd and the elevator / dowel have been layed out
Pic 6 - the holes for better bond
Pic 7 - elevator / dowel glued up

Note: I learned that the edges of the magnets will dent soft stock so now Iuse the side plates against the material.
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:29 PM
  #39  
SeamusG
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

The stab and elevator have been completed (except for hinging).

The stock is 3/8". As a result the CA doesn't totally wick through the butt joint so after pulling from the board the back side of each joint got another dose of CA. Titebond would be my choice next time Ido another stab like this (at the penalty of setup time).

Major sanding was required to reduce the trailing edge of the elevator from 3/8" to 1/8". I used a 1/4x1/4 stick as a meter for sanding the top - reducing the TE thickness to 1/4". I then flipped the elevator and used a 1/8" stick as a meter for sanding the bottom - reducing TE to 1/8". A Great Planes sanding board with #80 grit followed by #150.

Pic 1 - 1/4" meter
Pic 2 - 1/8"meter
Pic 3 - the shop vac is full
Pic 4 - elevator tip with LErounded (rather than angled)
Pic 5 - finished elevator
Pic 6 - finished stab & elev

I did cut off the leading edge tip of the stab where it will butt up against the fuse.

Off to attack the fin &rudder ...
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Old 07-09-2009, 04:05 PM
  #40  
SeamusG
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Just epoxied the balsa wing rib spacer and the 2 hardwood wing dowel reinforcing blocks on one of the wing halves. I drilled a bunch of 1/16" holes in both the spacers and the root rib. 30 minute epoxy was applied pushing it into the holes and then weighted.

I'm using Titebond to glue up the fin &rudder components. I laid them out on the plans then taped the seams with wide blue tape. I then opened up the joints by bending the pieces open at the glue and laying in a bead of Titebond. After all seams were glued I laid them out on a mirror and wiped the seams with a wet paper towel to remove the excess. I then laid a piece of glass on top of both pieces and weighted the glass down.

Pic 1 - wing rib spacers
Pic 2 - taped fin &rudder
Pic 3 - backside before gluing
Pic 4 - after gluing before cleanup
Pic 5 - after cleanup
Pic 6 - weighted glass cover

Btw, it looks like the wing root rib hardwood dowel supports are the same profile as the root rib. As the root rib is sheeted with 3/32 balsa there will be a 3/32 gap that will need filling. Anybody got any ideas / experienceson dealing with this situation in the future?
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:39 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

After the epoxy cured on the root rib center pieces the balsa rear piece was shaped to the root rib with #80 grit paper. The wing halves were then positioned on the board bottom-side up so that the top main spar would lay straight on the board. Some sanding was necessary to get them to lay flat. 30 minute epoxy was then used to glue the wing halves together.

Truthfully? This is the first time that Ihave butt jointedwing halves together. There will be a significantreinforcement using glass cloth. With the aileron servos positioned in the center of the wing Imay look into using CFfabric to reinforce the entire area sheeted. Any thoughts?

Pic 1 - joined and weighted wings
Pic 2 - closeup of "da joint"
Pic 3 - supports used to keep the wings aligned on the main spar

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Old 07-11-2009, 12:27 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Outstanding work Seamus...

Truly a precision builder is you....

Cheers,
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:45 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

The glass reinforcement of the wing center joint will be plenty strong; no need for the extra expense of carbon. Once upon a time I wondered how strong the joint was. I had just wrecked a Sig Chipmunk (they had a rather thin airfoil). I put one end of the wing on the bottom step of a ladder and the other end on the floor. Then I stood on the wing and it did not break. Of course back then I only weighed 160#, so i might not try it again.

For a joint that is easier to sand out and feather in, I use three layers of 2 ounce cloth rather than one layer of 6 ounce. The bottom layer can be 6 or 8 inches wide and each layer is about 2" narrower.

Chuck
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:01 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

For what it is worth, I am finishing a Killer my self. Love this 70's stuff. Been doing this hobby for 30 year and I am only 45, love it.
My Killer will be powerded by an OS 61 FX , side mounted with under the wing Mac header and pipe. It has Dave Brown retracts (see pics). Hitec 605 BB on all controls exept retract. Will be covered with Monokote.
Should be a fun one to fly.

Thanks

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Old 07-14-2009, 11:06 AM
  #45  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Here is more pics
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:09 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Some more
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:14 AM
  #47  
SeamusG
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread



Looks great J. I considered retracts. As I'm just finishing my 2nd year in the hobby (30 years. Really?) Idecided to keep it simple (and light - I hope). This is my 8th build. Actually Ihave 3 works-in-progress (Hog Bipe, this &LT-40 for club training) one of 'em is my 6th, another 7th - you get.

Like you I'm using an OS 61 FX at 90 degrees but with an OSmuffler. Not ready to jump on the tuning issues when using a Macs header &pipe.

Ijust finished the wing joining. To get the top of the wing flat (without too much sanding of the root rib) I ended up with slight gaps. I filled the gaps with 30 minute epoxy and a head gun. Tried real hard to keep the wood adjacent to the joint clean using alcohol.

Back to the LT-40 - maybe I can finish by training night ...

Didn't see the other pics untilafter I posted ...

I really like thecleanlieness of the fuse interior. The cowl is very nice - something that Ican strive for myself. I noticed thatthefront is not symetrical. Why did you choose this approach over a fully symetrical cowl?


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Old 07-14-2009, 11:43 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

To answer your question about the cowl. No specific reason, just to be different. I liked the look of it. It will have a machined True Turn spinner in front, should look good, I hope!
I'll post more pics as I go if you want.

Thanks
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:09 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

I like the idea of differentiation. Those that know just smile and say "nice touch".

More pics the merrier!

My club is (rumored) to be the largest active-member AMA club in the US. Almost to the member, everyone I tell about the Killer Chaos build says that "I'll love flying the plane". Those that don't just haven't flown one (yet). Drumming up more active support for the Bridi Chaos series is a good thing.

I'm looking forward to seeing your covering scheme. I've only used Ultracote per recommendation of most of the local builders. They all say that some time ago Monokote "changed". The new variant is not up to old standards that they loved and they are switching to Ultracote with the caveat that if Monokote "fixes" whatever changed they would consider going back. Just saying ...

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Old 07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
  #50  
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Default RE: Bridi Killer Chaos 60 Build Thread

Nice work guys. Just a heads up. This is an aerobatic plane. The elevator halves can be a bit mushy with that dowl rod and single pull setup. You might try twisting the elevator halves back and forth slightly to see how stiff your joint is in torsion. If your not happy with it you can stiffen it up dramatically with a strip of aluminum or sheet brass folded into a "U" shape and epoxied in between the elevator halves. You'll have to flatten the dowl rod a bit to glue the center of the "U" brace to a flat surface.
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