SeamusG

I just needed an excuse to take a bunch of digital pictures and try to add some text to describe them.

I recently recieved my kit from Bluejay Airplane Kits. I'm planning to build it to the instructions and install an OS61 FX. Other than that the details will evolve.

The attached pics are jpg files generated by Visio. As the instruction manual has no pictures and there a quite a few details missing from instruction manual I figured that by building a pretty detailed drawing in the Visio I would start developing a better understanding as to what it is I'm building. So here they are:

Btw, these structural pictures are withing 1/8" of actual plan dimensions &proportions.

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

Good luck with the build and looking forward to the posted progress

SeamusG

I'm going to take a bit of time on this one as it seems that it assumes a pretty experienced builder is doing the building. [:@] I'll do a couple of "pre-builds" on each step to make sure that I don't miss something as the instructions are a bit sparse. Also, this will be my first tapered wing so it will require a wing jib. After I compete the detailed drawings I'll do a parts inventory and put together a hardware list.

I just picked up a couple of rolls of covering for my naked Hog Bipe so it may get in the way as well.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

So that's what a stock Kaos looks like. Ihave stated before, a pilot should never have a hanger without a Kaos in it. No mater how bad your day has gone, you must fly a Kaos before you load up your hauler and head for home, they make you look so much better then you really are!!!
The one I have has been repaired and recovered 4 times, it's one of the old kits that Joe cut. It just seems to get better with age!! Ieven have one of his 120s in my shop getting a repair and refit but Ihave run out of radio gear so it will be a while before it fly's again.
Can't wait to see your build, I haven't put together one of these kits in years and it should bring back some fond memories.
There is a Kaos sticky on the classic pattern forum you should go look at, it may give you some ideas.

SeamusG

Thanks GB - will take a look at the sticky. We have a couple of "well (ab)used" Chaos' at the field. They really put a smile on my face.

A couple of our club members are doing some basic pattern training using the IMAC Basic sequence. To fly the most basic maneuvers looking like ya know what you're doing not only takes pilot skills but it's also very apparent that you need to get the plane's trim set correctly. My SIG Somethin' Extra (on extremely LOW rates) is doing primary duty. Looking forward to flying a plane that was designed to perform these maneuvers from the get go.

Cheers,

SeamusG

I've wrapped up the structure diagrams of the Killer Chaos. I think that I now have a clue as to how this puppy is structured!

R8893

My Feedback: (20)

I built my killer Kaos without a wing jig. It is several years old and flying great. I don't remember the build specifics, but my usual method is to mark cord lines on the ribs and shim so all are parallel to my table top.
Chuck

SeamusG

Thks Chuck,

I had a good conversation with the owner of Bluejay. He basically said that nothing special is needed for a jig. His suggestion was simply support 1/4" x 36" rods with 3 pieces of "same height" material and make sure that the rods are secured to the supports so that they don't move around. I have a bunch of "manufactured" trim molding that is rectangular (approx. 5/8" x 4"). I was thinking of taking some aluminum strips (cut up pop cans), wrap the strips around the rod (like an omega character - flat on the bottom) and then attach them to the top of the supports with screws securing the rods in place.

I'm trying to fabricate templates for the 1/8" plywood doublers for installation of the landing gear using the tail-dragger approach.

These instructions are kinda like giving a blood hound a scent and expect the darn dog to search out a pile of drugs hidden by the bad guys. I've built 6 planes in the last year and a half, all SIG products. I guess that I'm just spoiled.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Your just spoiled!!! Not that there is anything wrong with that, I love the instructions I get with Sig or GP with the photos to follow along during the steps in the build. Sometimes it's just more fun to not have to do all that thinking stuff during a build.
What you have now is an old school kit not designed for new builders. Ihave built kits that had there instructions printed on news print. The last Extra 260 Ibuilt from a very old Texas Twins kit was just printed on bond paper, about three pages and it was up to me to know what all the parts looked like and were called. Mounting the tail feathers was a real thrill and loaded with way too much thinking!!
The Kaos won the Nats in 1970 and twice more, Ithink it was 71 and 72?? Rain Dave or some of the guys on the classic pattern forum would remember that better tehn me.
By the time a pilot got to the point of being able to handle a pattern plane he had some pretty good building skills at that point, there were no ARFs so if you wanted to fly you needed to build.
Iremember having to assemble the wing halves together upside down on the Kaos for some reason?? Been a long while sense I built one.
Anyway, during your build don't be afraid to ask the classic guys, Ithink Dave can put one of these planes together while he is asleep and dreaming. There were several little tricks you could do during the build. Mine were all tail draggers, the one I am still flying had spring air retracks in it for a number of years. Istill have the gear and keep thinking about how much fun they were. Maybe on my next classic build?? Ihave another set of plans from a Bridi but Ihave a couple of small classics in the hanger already, can't keep bulding the same type of planes.

SeamusG

I believe that if you're gonna get into to it just jump into the deep end. (no scratch building - yet ...) Actually, I have finished fuse w/ tail feathers for a Sea Dancer - no wing. I do have plans for the wing. And, I just bought a cheapo band saw yesterday.

My favorite author on building is Harry Higley. Why invent when you can plagiarize! Initially I wanted my planes to look good. I quickly discovered that flyin' good is way more better 'n lookin' good!

I'm in the middle of doing a parts inventory labeling all the wood to make it a bit easier (RCKen's contribution to my "best practices"). Figuring what gets tossed, what gets replaced and what wasn't included. So far there are maybe 3 pieces of long balsa stock that needs to be "reshaped". Pretty soft stock. Also, not sure where they go so assembly may just absorb the bends (at least they are 1-way bends, nothing with compounded twists).

TTFN,

Btw - I did read the Kaos sticky thread in the Pattern "room". Thanks for the heads up.

dhal22

an OS pumped 'SF' with a pipe would be nice on this plane.

SeamusG

OK David - I've been in the hobby for about 2 years. What the heck is a pumped OS "SF"?

I did try to win an eBay auction on a Rossi .61 w/ a tuned exhaust. To slow on the trigger.

I also figure that if I use a mount like Hayes AL-60 and I keep the technology the same (2-stroke) for a standard throttle linkage setup, I can "change my mind". I may rethink this approach as I start looking at the built-up cowl. Will it be adaptable to different engine / exhaust combination?

Follow on ...

I went ahead and traced the front portion of the two wing ribs that flank the tail-dragger landing gear blocks. After tracing they were scanned and loaded into Visio to ensure that they didn't lose any of the proportions in translation. See pic ... Though they "look" the same the details are quite different.

SeamusG

I've finished doing a physical inventory on the wood & accessories. Each stick / block of wood has its measurement and an acronym that ties it back to the instruction manual inventory list. The pieces were segregated into 5 groups: fuse, cowl, wing, horizontal (tail) & vertical (tail). Each was then repackaged into the box waiting for me to check out my glue inventory.

dhal22

a pumped SF is an OS .61 side exhaust engine.  an ideal engine for this plane.  i would recommend the OS ABC-P .61 SF version.  try browswing through the classic pattern forum and/or asking questions there.  a lot of homework has already been done for you there.  feel free to ask more questions.

dhal22

btw, the FX will work fine on this plane.

SeamusG

Truth be known, I really like the idea of a rear exhaust engine mounted vertically with the a tuned exhaust encapsulated in a pseudo canopy. But that will be my second Chaos ...

TTFN,

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

May want to look at a Bridi XLT then. I used an OS FX in mine:

SeamusG

Tim - I'm IN LUST!!!! Nice lookin' air-o-plane.

Truth be known, I got the idea from the XLT on Bluejay's site. Just wanted to walk before I tried to run. Didn't want to stumble into the retract world quite yet.

Who did the exhaust? When you say "I used an OS FX" I'm assuming the .61 (based on some displacement limit?).

TTFN,

SeamusG

Ok, I'm doing my homework. Macs Products header with a tuned pipe? Em, beginning to understand some of the comments that pattern planes can get to be pricey little pieces of art.

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

You got it right. I used an OS FX .61 with a 11x7 APC prop, MACs header and pipe which has worked flawlessly for me without a need of shortening to tune it. The XLT I built does have air Robart retracts but it can be built with fixed gear. IT was a bit of a trick getting all three gears into the airplane along with the air tank. The airtank is actually aft of the wing in the upper part of the fuselage.


She moves pretty damn fast through the air and seems to have an unlimited verticle. OR it atleast feels that way. She'll run out of sight if I'd let it. IT does awesome 400'+ loops and tracks straight as an arrow. It makes me look good with the way she tracks through the air.

I'd build another one in an heartbeat but commited to building a new Ultra Sport 1000 that I recently purchased. Quiet a project but will be fun....

SeamusG

Thanks Tim.

As a beginning I'm going to stick with the 61 FX vertically mounted w/ stock exhaust. No retracts. Digital DS821 servos (dual aile), 6.0v 1500+ mAh NiMh battery. I should be able to upgrade to a Macs header / pipe combo without affecting the cowl design.

What size of fuel tank are you using? How long are your flights? Particular to any specific brand? I understand that you fly an XLT that weighs 2 - 3 lb. more than the advertised weight of the Killer Chaos.

How's about brand of engine mounts? I've used both SIG & Hayes for my 6 kits. The kit comes with 4-40 hardware for both mount-to-firewall & engine-to-mount attachement. I'm going with 6-32 across the board.

What type of glue do you prefer? Fuse construction? Wing construction? I'm thinking that CA will get the nod simply to ensure squareness. I've managed to twist a fuse by using Titebond and NOT having the structure secured well enough. "Honest, it was straight BEFORE I left the basement". Since this will be my first tapered / non-constant chord wing I'm thinking of going with CA & accellerator.

There is SO much to learn and so little time ...[8D]

TTFN,

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

Good plan on the Macs heder and pipe. On the XLT I actually had to slightly cut into the fuselage to get it to fit right and be straight. I added some additional balsa to the inside of the radio bay to allow me to wittle away on the outside to accomodate the pipe bump . I took my time an used 60 grit paper and saned it until the fuselage indentation was basically the same shape of the pipe. after it was all set and ready to cover I soaked the area with thin CA to add more strength. I maintained a clearance of about 1/4" to allow colling air to slip through and keep the pipe from melting the Monokote.

I used a 12 ounce tank as the space was limited with the Robart air nose gear retract. Igot a good 8+ minutes with reserve for two additional go-arounds if Ineeded. It really depened on how hard Iwas on the throttle. After 8 minutes I was a bit ready to land any ways as she would cover a lot of airspace in that time.

6/32' is what Iused as well. Iused an Hayes mount and installed it in the typical kit fasion with blind nuts. Itapped and died the threads i the mount for bolting the engine on.

As for Glues Iused all three depending on the area of use. CAon the internal area's (formers to fuselage sides), Titebond on the places anywhere I needed to sand to shape or smooth and in those critical high strength area's I use epoxy as no other glue is more durable. To keep things from shifting during the glue drying process its either pinned or taped to a straight solid surface. As for the wings Ipin the spars solid to my building board which is usually a mahogony hollow core door. Then I use CA to glue the ribs and structure basically together following the same guidelines that Iused on the fuselage. I will use Titebond to add the sheeting and shear webs as it has much more strength the CA. Same goes the rib cap strips but will use the tecnique of coating the rib edge with Titebond glue but at the ends will use CA to accelerate the installation and holding of the cap. Use pins or tape to help with holding things in place.

Idon't use the CAaccellerator unless it is absolutely needed as it tends to make the bond fragile. To keep things straight pin, tape, clamp them and use weights to hold things down. The wings stay pinned to the table until sheeting is bonded to either the upper or lower surface. This ensures the wings will keep straight. There again I'm constantly checking with a straight edge or sighting with my eye ball.

When glueing the skins to the wings I'll use tape and pins to keep it from shifting on the structure and then will use old magazines and/or 2 pound sand bags that I made, to put even pressure on the sheeting to get a good bound to the ribs and spars. And of course high strength areas I used epoxy.

squeakalong

My Feedback: (8)

Hi SeamusG.  Great thread started here on what should be a super nice flying aircraft.  Will follow along with you.

One question:  Would you be so kind as to offer the chord and wing tip rib patterns, as you did the ribs in your post #12?  As a former draftsman (we REALLY DID use a drafting board...I swear we did...) I'd like to try my hand at building a Chaos.  Also, what is the wingspan and what is the length from back of spinner to rear lower edge of the rudder?  Many thanks!!

Joe

SeamusG

Hi Joe,

Here's the stuff ya asked for.

Firewall front surface to the leading edge of the rudder (or trailing edge of the fuse) is exactly 47"

Wing centerline to outside of tip rib is 30.5" (or outside dimension of L tip rib to R tip rib is 61")
Wing tip treatment is a carved block that is 1" wide.

pic 1 - ribs 1 thru 4 from tip
pic 2 - ribs 5 thru 8
pic 3 - ribs 9 and 10
pic 4 - rib 11 (root)

The first set is the traced images on graph paper. The second set is after importing to Visio & adjusting the perimeter lines "inside" the traced lines of the traced images.

Cool thing about Visio - it can calculate areas & perimeters at the touch of a button.

SeamusG

Tim - I gotta smile - you just very simply and accurately described the glues and techniques that I "try" to follow. The one exception is the pre-gluing of the rib edges with wood glue. I use the technique on the end of stock but hadn't thought about using it on the rib edges too. Great input.

I use 2 hollow core doors. One is used as a base for supporting 2 1/2 acoustical ceiling tiles for pinning. The tiles are framed with cheap household molding pieces to keep them tight together. The other is used to support a large mirror (glass surface) for cutting covering & assembling multi-piece covering panels. Ultracote's adhesive releases cleanly from the glass surface after it cools.

I bought a magnetic board and appliances at our local auction (back in Feb). It looks like the original that Great Planes "adopted" and sells replacement parts. Should prove to be interesting.