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Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

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Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Old 01-15-2012, 01:23 PM
  #451  
SunDevilPilot
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

I have been busy the last few days on other projects but I did manage to get one more detail done on the fuselage and I reassembled the struts (Loosely).

The minor detail to the fuse was the creation of the window frame portion of the door. I just laid the fuselage on it's side on top of a piece of paper and marked the perimeter of the door. Then I took the template, placed it onto some drywall, and built up the framework. The upper window frame attaches to the lower door via two magnets embedded in each part.

I may add one more set of magnets to the upper portion of the window frame but I am not sure. I always fly my 1/5th Scale Cub with the upper window frame off the plane to facilitate some cooling of the batteries. Because if this the upper window frame only requires the bottom magnets to hold the windows when the plane it parked or in storage.

The struts have been put back together and I will tighten them up when I reinstall them onto the completed wing and fuselage (After paint). I added washers inside the vertical jury struts to prevent the crushing of the jury struts when the bolts are tightened up. This was a little finicky but I got through it.

It was nice to get the struts put back together so I could take them down from my plane shelf. Each part was labeled to ensure I put them back in the correct location to keep things perfectly lined up. Each piece of the struts had been custom sized to fit when it was assembled on the plane.

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Old 01-15-2012, 01:37 PM
  #452  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

The fit on your door looks perfect! I know I have said this to you hundred times, but your workmanship is fantastic! I am sure looking forward to the maiden flight on this one, as I am sure everyone else is. Looks like wind and possible rain tomorrow! Might make for a good Super Cub building day!?

Rob
Old 01-15-2012, 04:11 PM
  #453  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Threw a little covering on the lower door. I also drilled a hole in the middle of the door, towards the top, for the handle. The handle will not function any latch, as the magnets do all the work, but it will give me something to grab onto to pull the door off the plane.

The handle will be made out of some 4-40 rod. I have the same setup on my other cub.

I have also covered all the wing servo hatches and covered the servo tray / radio tray that mount inside the fusealge. All the hatches will be painted red when the wings are painted.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:22 PM
  #454  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


ORIGINAL: SunDevilPilot

Truly a ''Box Of Sticks'' but....... somewhere in there is a Super Cub and I am going to find it.

SunDevilPilot

Even if it takes you three years!!!

She's coming together nicely now. Can't wait to see the wrap up on this project!
Old 01-15-2012, 06:05 PM
  #455  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


SunDevilPilot,

Just to let you know that I am following your postings with great interest.

You are doing a marvelous job.

Zor
Old 01-16-2012, 10:39 AM
  #456  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Rain / windy day = No flying and more covering.

Due to weather I didn't go out for my regular flying day. Instead I stayed home and did some covering. So far I have the rudder done. Time for some lunch then I will get both elevator halves covered.

The rudder and the elevators have a lot of curve to them so they take a little time to get covered. You have to work the covering all the way around the perimeter to ensure it goes down wrinkle free. Again, this is where solartex covering really shines. Easy enough, just takes time.

The rounded shape of the PA-18 rudder is really pleasing to my eye, I'm glad I modified the shape.

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Old 01-16-2012, 03:00 PM
  #457  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Continued covering today and got both the elevator halves completed.

Like my building, I am a little slow when it comes to covering. If I force myself to take things slowly I tend to do a little better work. The rudder and elevators came out good.

The covering was just worked around the perimeter then trimmed with scissors. If you close the scissors until there is just a little "V" at the tip you can just run the scissors around the edge and it will slice through the covering making a nice clean edge (Assuming you have sharp scissors).

If you get the covering laid down around the edge, and you cut close enough with the scissors, you can just iron down the remaining covering and all the wrinkles will work themself out.

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Old 01-16-2012, 03:22 PM
  #458  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


Hello SunDevilPilot,

I am very curious what is the thickness of this covering material you are using. Thicknessbefore any paint is applied.

Would you have a caliper to measure it in thousnads of an inch ?
Any idea of the number of threads per inch ?
What is the best guess of the transparency ?

You may have seen in the past some of the pictures I posted on the material I have been using.

I am curious to compare to what I used.

Thanks for any info you may be able to provide.

Zor

Old 01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
  #459  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


ORIGINAL: Zor


Hello SunDevilPilot,

I am very curious what is the thickness of this covering material you are using. Thicknessbefore any paint is applied.

Would you have a caliper to measure it in thousands of an inch ?
Any idea of the number of threads per inch ?
What is the best guess of the transparency ?

You may have seen in the past some of the pictures I posted on the material I have been using.

I am curious to compare to what I used.

Thanks for any info you may be able to provide.

Zor

I have a set of Mitutoyo calipers which are fairly accurate. I measured the raw covering a few times and came to the same measurement. The covering without paint is .0040 " thick

I have no idea on threads per inch nor a way to measure the transparency, sorry.

SunDevilPilot

Old 01-16-2012, 05:18 PM
  #460  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


A million thanks SunDevilPilot.

The thikness was the main key that solved my curiosity.

The fabric I have used is just about the same 4 1/2to 5 thou.

I have a fair idea of the transparency looking at the material on your rudder and elevators.
The appearance of the wood through the fabric is a good clue.

I am close to cover the wings of my Spectra sailplane with genuine lightest weight Ceconite fabric.
It has just about the same characteristics. They advise to use only their glue but I think it is their effort to sell it and it sells only in gallons.aroung $35.00 or more. I need only about a couple of cubic inches of glue, not 231 cu. in. The amount of cu. in. in a gallon from the top of my head

I will use the "stix-it" that I already have.

What did you use to glue the peripheries ?

Zor

Old 01-16-2012, 05:26 PM
  #461  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


ORIGINAL: Zor


A million thanks SunDevilPilot.

The thikness was the main key that solved my curiosity.

The fabric I have used is just about the same 4 1/2to 5 thou.

I have a fair idea of the transparency looking at the material on your rudder and elevators.
The appearance of the wood through the fabric is a good clue.

I am close to cover the wings of my Spectra sailplane with genuine lightest weight Ceconite fabric.
It has just about the same characteristics. They advise to use only their glue but I think it is their effort to sell it and it sells only in gallons.aroung $35.00 or more. I need only about a couple of cubic inches of glue, not 231 cu. in. The amount of cu. in. in a gallon from the top of my head

I will use the "stix-it" that I already have.

What did you use to glue the peripheries ?

Zor

Your welcome Zor,

There is not glue needed on the edges with Solartex. The adhesive on the covering is all you need. The instructions with the covering actually advise you against using some other adhesive pre-brushed onto the wood.

Kinda sad, yet exciting, to see the parts getting covered up. A glider would look really good with some of the covering left opaque.

SunDevilPilot

Old 01-16-2012, 05:27 PM
  #462  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


Old 01-17-2012, 09:30 AM
  #463  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


SunDevilPilot,

Your reply to me is highly appreciated and created many thoughs in my mind.
While no one can be a mind reader, it is fun to sometime imagine what some people might be thinking like the many readers of this forum.

I can imagine some purist thinking "Ah! ... the added weight of glue not needed in open areas".

Many are not born with the same degree of curiosity. Curiosity leads to the acquisition of more knowledge often not obviously necessary but we never know when it might be useful.

I am the type of fellow that see the pistons moving in their cylinders while flying full size or even driving my car or van. I have many times experienced the engine going automatically rough when being beyond gliding distance of shore in a single engine airplane. My intelligence tells me it is not so but my ears often disagree. My ears tell me "look at the oil pressure gauge, the rpm tachometer, the intake manifold pressure gauge, the cylinder headtemperature gauge ___are they normal? are any of them "jittery" or are they steady and within normal readings.

I am now wondering what material are the threads of this covering made of. More useless knowledge not needed for using the product. Likely some composition of polyester. A variety that shrink when heated up to some temperature like does the plastic unthreaded film.

While looking at your pictures I cannot tell if we see the balsa through the covering because of the fabric being transparent or because of the empty spaces between the threads. The threads themselves being opaque.

I have seen many model sailplanes and even airplanes covered with transparent material and we see the whole structure. I have never seen full size airplanes wih a transparent covering excluding the visible structures in the early times of aviation.

I like to think that opaque coverings gives at keast a psychological feeling of solidity as compared to being delicate and weak.

Nuf for now .

Thanks again de Zor.

Old 01-17-2012, 09:40 AM
  #464  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Hey Phil !!

I like this "Zor" guy, my kinda people !!!

He would be a great addition in our discussions at the Flying Field



Denis
Old 01-17-2012, 11:30 AM
  #465  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

This one's for Zor!

Much of what Zor said is how I am. I don't just want to know what is the best, I want to know why.

Here is an example of the opacity for solartex. As for thread count, you are on your own!
(2 of 3 questions answered)

SunDevilPilot
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:26 PM
  #466  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

I would like to think I also fit into the curious aspects of things as well! We had a saying that was posted in my office of our wood working business that read "Perfrction is our goal, but excellence will be tolerated" I was never satisfied with my work, and I am the same with my airplane building! Still trying to achieve perfection.

Sundevilpilot is one of the best builders I have ever come across in this hobby, and his work always inspires me to want to be better at my own building! I think this is what makes our hobby such a wonderful experience.

TWWD (Rob)
Old 01-17-2012, 05:37 PM
  #467  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

High praise and rightfully so.
Old 01-17-2012, 08:43 PM
  #468  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


ORIGINAL: SunDevilPilot

This one's for Zor!

Much of what Zor said is how I am. I don't just want to know what is the best, I want to know why.

Here is an example of the opacity for solartex. As for thread count, you are on your own!
(2 of 3 questions answered)

SunDevilPilot
I have to thank you again for your nice cooperation.
It looks just about the same as the material I have been using which is a polyester.

I would like to mention here that I am differentiating between transparency due to the thread being transparent and transparency due to gaps between the threads. The material (fabric) I used has 80 tpi (I counted them) and each thread is just about .0.0025" to 0.0030" when measured individually. So 0.003 times 80 gives 0.240 and the rest of the inch is air. This allows the aircraft dope which I am using to go through and bind to the structure.

Your fabric is likely hard to count threads due to a layer of glue probably deposited as a film.

Considering the wings as an example I want the fabric to be cemented to the ribs.
I have seen some models on which the plastic film was not glued to the rib tops and the fellow was complaining of his plane not always behaving the same. It was obvious that the suction on top of the wings was lifting the covering and changing the airfoil likely in a random fashion varying with the G force being pulled. I could put my lips on the wing tops and suck the covering off the ribs. Not good for maintaining an airfoil shape.

I think we have covered this subject pretty well and thanks to you for your kindness in helping.

Cheers,

Zor

Old 01-18-2012, 07:57 AM
  #469  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Zor,
What is the name of the material you are using and where can it be purchased? Thanks for your time.

pete
Old 01-18-2012, 12:10 PM
  #470  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


ORIGINAL: malitape

Zor,
What is the name of the material you are using and where can it be purchased? Thanks for your time.

pete
Hello pete,

You might not believe what follows but I am not the one to fool around in this forum.

First the covering of my Super Skybolt ___
I was looking for a polyester fabric that was strong and very light weight.

It had to be white as I was planning some color scheme finishing with colored butyrate dope which I already had. White, red and blue.

After half a dozen store selling fabric I ended at a place called "Fabricland" and found the remaining of a roll having just about 4 yards of 45" wide that seemed to fit the bill .

The bill by the way was quite good at $3.95 a yard as being the rest of the roll. I bought it.
Asking the lady "What are people typically buying this for?" and she answered "to make linings inside ladies skirts". So my Skybot is covered all over with lady's skirt material _ _ .

Second the covering of my Spectra sailplane ___
I was pretty well out of dope so I went to Leaven's Brothers to get some genuine Randolph aircraft dope.
Leavens are suppliers to full size airplane rebuilders. They have just about everything needed for rebuilding full size airplanes and also supply EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) people building their own full size airplanes.

From Leavens I bought some green and some yellow butyrate and some clear nitrate and clear butyrate and thinners for both. My cost was one third ( 1/3 ) of the dope from LHS (Local Hobby Store {for new readers}) and I needed only one third ( 1/3 ) of the amount of dope becasue it was not diluted like the stuff at the LHS.

While at Leavens I queried about real "Ceconite" which is used for full size fabric covered airplanes including Pitts and many full size aerobatic airplanes. I found that Ceconite comes in three levels of strenght .
1- Thin (about 0.005") and impossible to tear no matter how we try; used for light experimental machines, para-gliders, flying wings and such.
2- Medium weight used for the typical average machines such as Cessna 120, Citabria, J3 Cubs, Etc . . .
3- the heavy duty type used on aerobatic airplane and bush planes . . . Faichild, Norseman, Etc . . .

I bought 6 yards of the #1 (above) havinga width of about 54 or 60 inch wide.
Sorry I forget the actual width and right now I will not unwrap it again. It takes my whole living room floor. It is in that vicinity, 54 or 60 or 64 wide.

The Spectra fuselage and feathers are already covered and pictures were posted.

This might be more than you expected but many readers out there are always in my mind.

Hoping this answers your question.
Note that there is many suppliers to rebuilders like Leavens and that genuine undiluted dope is much more economical and easier to use.

Best 2 u from Zor


Old 01-19-2012, 04:47 PM
  #471  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)


ORIGINAL: Zor


ORIGINAL: malitape

Zor,
What is the name of the material you are using and where can it be purchased? Thanks for your time.

pete
Hello pete,

You might not believe what follows but I am not the one to fool around in this forum.

First the covering of my Super Skybolt _ _ _
I was looking for a polyester fabric that was strong and very light weight.

It had to be white as I was planning some color scheme finishing with colored butyrate dope which I already had. White, red and blue.

After half a dozen store selling fabric I ended at a place called ''Fabricland'' and found the remaining of a roll having just about 4 yards of 45'' wide that seemed to fit the bill .

The bill by the way was quite good at $3.95 a yard as being the rest of the roll. I bought it.
Asking the lady ''What are people typically buying this for?'' and she answered ''to make linings inside ladies skirts''. So my Skybot is covered all over with lady's skirt material _ [img][/img] _ [img][/img] .

Second the covering of my Spectra sailplane _ _ _
I was pretty well out of dope so I went to Leaven's Brothers to get some genuine Randolph aircraft dope.
Leavens are suppliers to full size airplane rebuilders. They have just about everything needed for rebuilding full size airplanes and also supply EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) people building their own full size airplanes.

From Leavens I bought some green and some yellow butyrate and some clear nitrate and clear butyrate and thinners for both. My cost was one third ( 1/3 ) of the dope from LHS (Local Hobby Store {for new readers}) and I needed only one third ( 1/3 ) of the amount of dope becasue it was not diluted like the stuff at the LHS.

While at Leavens I queried about real ''Ceconite'' which is used for full size fabric covered airplanes including Pitts and many full size aerobatic airplanes. I found that Ceconite comes in three levels of strenght .
1- Thin (about 0.005'') and impossible to tear no matter how we try; used for light experimental machines, para-gliders, flying wings and such.
2- Medium weight used for the typical average machines such as Cessna 120, Citabria, J3 Cubs, Etc . . .
3- the heavy duty type used on aerobatic airplane and bush planes . . . Faichild, Norseman, Etc . . .

I bought 6 yards of the #1 (above) having a width of about 54 or 60 inch wide.
Sorry I forget the actual width and right now I will not unwrap it again. It takes my whole living room floor. It is in that vicinity, 54 or 60 or 64 wide.

The Spectra fuselage and feathers are already covered and pictures were posted.

This might be more than you expected but many readers out there are always in my mind.

Hoping this answers your question.
Note that there is many suppliers to rebuilders like Leavens and that genuine undiluted dope is much more economical and easier to use.

Best 2 u from Zor


Thank you much for all the info

pete
Old 01-20-2012, 09:35 AM
  #472  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

You are very welcome.

Thanks for the thanks

Zor
Old 01-22-2012, 03:43 PM
  #473  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Today I did the final sanding on the fuselage in preparation of covering it. Due to limited time I did not start the covering but I did get the motor and ESC into a bolt-on configuration. The motor and ESC are wired together and the mount is all painted. All bolts have been locktighted in place.

I was going to just solder the ESC to the motor but I ran into a little snag. The Motor wires have some type of coating on them. So.... I had to grind them a little with the dremel and cover them in flux. Even with that effort the solder was a little difficult to get to flow. So, I went with bullet connectors where I could rest assured there was a good connection. I just tinned the motor wires, filled the end of the bullet connector with solder, heated until molten, then slid the two together. While they were together I torched them a little until I saw the wire melt into the bullet connector. I am positive each got a good connection. The ESC wires were soldered without issue.

(Note, next time I will just cut the ESC wires shorter and use the pre-tinned end of the motor wires.)

My next step is covering the fuselage then the final painting can begin.

I have also been a little delayed while I set up my new tool, a bandsaw. I got a gift card for Christmas that got me a good start on buying this tool. It should be a nice addition to the collection. I had to make the base and get it all dialed in.

SunDevilPilot
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:11 AM
  #474  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Sweet, new tools! You will be scratch building soon. Next time you are making sawdust call me and we will cut out the plywood for an engine test stand for the GT 80. I also have a prop to drill and the two wheels to drill. I sure am glad you have some cool tools, it makes my builds nicer.
Old 01-23-2012, 05:48 AM
  #475  
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Default RE: Sig 1/4 J3 Kit converted to PA-18 Super Cub (Build)

Lets see this band saw!

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